Do DP Republicans actually believe in Democracy?

[NWRatCon]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

 

[OrphanSlug]

(This should end in all kinds of fun.)

 

[CaughtInThe]

THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!!!

 

[Slartibartfast]

They do when they win elections.

 

[ataraxia]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

Well ominously enough, I have heard many of them protest that we are a Republic, not a Democracy. I have never really understood what they meant by that, but I think I know. It's pretty scary.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Well ominously enough, I have heard many of them protest that we are a Republic, not a Democracy. I have never really understood what they meant by that, but I think I know. It's pretty scary.

When you tell them that the two are not mutually exclusive because all democracies have been representative democracies for the last 2500 years since the failed Athens experiment, there is absolutely ZERO response on that, from them.
I've NEVER received ANY response whatsoever, not in the entire time I've been here.

"America is not and never has been a democracy"

"All democracies have been representative democracies for the last 2500 years, and we are a representative democracy that functions in the framework of a constitutional republic."

"............"

"Did you get that?"

"............"
"............"
"............"

"Did you get that? Hello???"

"............"

 

[Deuce]

I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that right wingers oppose literally every effort to make voting easier.

 

[aociswundumho]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

edit: to answer the question, no, I do not "believe in democracy", because democracy sucks donkey dick.

 

[ataraxia]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

edit: to answer the question, no, I do not "believe in democracy", because democracy sucks donkey dick.

So what alternative did you have in mind?

“Democracy is the worst system of government, except for everything else.“
-Winston Churchill

 

[JasperL]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

edit: to answer the question, no, I do not "believe in democracy", because democracy sucks donkey dick.

Cool, so what's your alternative?

All you've done is point out some alleged problems with Democracy, and I'm sure no one asserts 'democracy' is without problems. Assuming they are true for the sake of argument, so what? Should we abandon 'democracy' and if so for what better alternative? And of course all alternatives have a different set of problems.

 

[Dayton3]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

Of course But that belief has never been unlimited.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

edit: to answer the question, no, I do not "believe in democracy", because democracy sucks donkey dick.

You suck *what* now?

 

[Ren]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

You haven't seen it because most of us believe in our Republic.

 

[lwf]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

Agreed. Without a constitution enshrining the rights of all, a democracy can be little better than a fascist state for any but the majority.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

Hardly. Democracy is the one form of government that is most resistant to this. That it is still possible in a democracy isn't a knock against democracy, it is a knock against human greed and ingenuity. Any other form of government would have much more of this type of corruption.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

Tyranny of the ignorant majority is the least objectionable form of tyranny. Taking power away from the people is just plain good old fashioned tyranny that benefits no one but the tyrant.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

Democracy is anything you agree with. Anything else outside of what you want sends you into a tizzy.

 

[aociswundumho]

Agreed. Without a constitution enshrining the rights of all, a democracy can be little better than a fascist state for any but the majority.

I said "unpopular" minority groups, such as black people in the past, or gun owners in the present. The constitution is interpreted by a government-run court, which is just as political as any other branch of the government.

Hardly. Democracy is the one form of government that is most resistant to this.

There are over 10,000 registered lobbyists and probably 10x that amount who are not registered in DC.

What do you think they do all day?

That it is still possible in a democracy isn't a knock against democracy, it is a knock against human greed and ingenuity.

Politicians and bureaucrats putting their own interests first is not "human greed". Virtually everyone will put his own interests ahead of yours.

 

[NWRatCon]

They do when they win elections.

Yeah, but that only happens when they manipulate the voting.

 

[Lisa]

They do when they win elections.

No, they don't. They don't believe in representing all people equally but ruling over them and denying others equal rights. They don't believe in fair and represenative elections either.

 

[lwf]

I said "unpopular" minority groups, such as black people in the past, or gun owners in the present. The constitution is interpreted by a government-run court, which is just as political as any other branch of the government.

And I was agreeing with you on that point. Without a constitution, a democracy could be no better than a monarchy depending on the whims of the majority vs the whims of a monarch.

There are over 10,000 registered lobbyists and probably 10x that amount who are not registered in DC.

What do you think they do all day?

Politicians and bureaucrats putting their own interests first is not "human greed". Virtually everyone will put his own interests ahead of yours.

Correct. And under a non-democratic government, there is no way to protect against this. Under a democratic government there is. Once the majority gets tired of having a lobbying group put its interests ahead of theirs, they can put a stop to it with a simple vote. The trick is getting that majority. This is no easy trick under a democratic government, but it is absolute child's play compared to trying to make it happen under a non-democratic government.

 

[Craig234]

They do when they win elections.

You left out the word only.

 

[Ren]

No, they don't. They don't believe in representing all people equally but ruling over them and denying others equal rights. They don't believe in fair and represenative elections either.

Who's been ruling over you?

Did you know that your definition of hate speech is still protected speech?

Do you think that anyone on this side of the political fence wouldn't believe for one second that if you had the chance, you'd throw every conservative in the slammer for violating your idea of hate speech?

 

[SoCal]

Democracy is awful for many, many reasons. Here are a few:

1. The rights of politically unpopular minority groups are frequently violated.

2. Democracies cater to special interest groups at the expense of the general population. Via the democratic process, special interest groups obtain concentrated benefits while dispersing the costs.

3. Voters are rationally ignorant and are very susceptible to government propaganda.

edit: to answer the question, no, I do not "believe in democracy", because democracy sucks donkey dick.

As Checkerboard Strangler points, we've never been a democracy, we've always been a democratic republic. Your righjt about the first two, although 4 years and 24/7 of Trump's Tweeting show government propaganda also works in our republic.

But why disingenuously ignore NWRatCon's obvious question? If in the long term, Repubs continue losing elections, would they be happy with our current government (however it's described), or would they reverse or annul elections they claim are fraudulent and install a tyrant like Trump who admires the strong men around the world?...

 

[Lisa]

Who's been ruling over you?

Did you know that your definition of hate speech is still protected speech?

Do you think that anyone on this side of the political fence wouldn't believe for one second that if you had the chance, you'd throw every conservative in the slammer for violating your idea of hate speech?

My best interests are not being represented by Republicans or neo-fascist Trump supporters.

I am a 25+ year member of the ACLU that opposes criminalizing hate speech.

Nobody is threatening to jail conservatives for their speech, so drop the laughable persecution complex. Who told you that we were?

Democracy is anything you agree with. Anything else outside of what you want sends you into a tizzy.

Democracy most definitely isn't anything that you agree to. You can agree to be robbed if someone puts a gun to your head in exchange for not being killed.

Democracy has a settled definition and the US isn't a pure democracy but instead, it is a constitutional republic with a Bill of Rights that protects our innate rights equally instead of the tyranny of the majority that occurs in a democracy.

 

[Acadia]

I'm curious, because I haven't seen evidence of it, except on rare occasions.

Do you actually believe America is a Democracy?
I mean, what's your point?

 

[j brown's body]

They do not believe in democracy.

Look at the party itself. They have given the party over to one man. No Republican who does not agree with him and unquestionably support him is not considered a Republican, and they will choke off all the donations and support for that person that they can.

Look at what they stand for. Cutural warfare. Inspired by their leader,, they are consumed with dividing us through fear and loathing of each other. Their opponents are socialist,, communist anarchists who will allow "men" in ladies rooms and minorities into the suburbs. This appeal to the "base" does not broaden support. They only support their base, everyone else is the enemy. And a democratic leader must at least appear to support all the people. They have dropped all pretense of this.

These are characteristics of supporters of tyranny, not of democracy, or even democratic principles.