Differentiating sex from gender was a blunder from the standpoint of advancing authoritarianism

[grip]

The only difference between sex and gender is... huh?

 

[ecofarm]

Gender never meant sex. Gender was always a sociological term. Gender was never a biological term. Gender was never employed as a term in biology.

The confusion started when the government began using "gender" as a euphemism for "sex" on forms. See, the average American found the word "sex" on a form to be rather rude. So, despite the term being sociological and not biological, it was employed on government forms.

The fundamental problem in the discussion of gender is some people's education consists of nothing more than government forms. They've never seen the word gender employed otherwise. They have no idea it's not a biological term. They think it means biological sex.

Now, gender has been a term in sociology (and not biology) for generations.

So it's kind of hilarious when the uneducated (that is those educated by a government form) act like someone else is changing the meaning of the word.

 

[ecofarm]

The best part is when someone educated by a government form claims to know biology. As if a biologist ever claimed to know what the **** sociologists are talking about. Wrong science, idiots.

At a university, the Gender Department is always and has always been under the College of Sociology. It has never been and never will be under the College of Biology. It's not a ****ing biological term. People who have never sniffed a university campus don't know that. They think the Gender Department is under Biology.

 

[Aristaeus]

That is because I am on a forum primarily populated by people who are nearly fanatical about insisting that "misgendering" someone is a horrible crime. When I used to post on a so-called "libertarian" forum that was filled with Trumpers and neo-cons, I would talk about the Patriot Act and other right-wing attacks on freedom. Sorry, freedumb.

Forcing people to call males "she" is.

Meh, we call ships and cars 'she' all the time. She is a feminine pronoun not a female pronoun.

There are a number of problems with the TWAW ideology; pronouns are not one of them.

 

[Lisa]

Meh, we call ships and cars 'she' all the time. She is a feminine pronoun not a female pronoun.

There are a number of problems with the TWAW ideology; pronouns are not one of them.

You are still fighting "separate but equal" social war, just with gender instead of race. Do you think that anyone really cares what a TERF thinks?

 

[Aristaeus]

You are still fighting "separate but equal" social war, just with gender instead of race. Do you think that anyone really cares what a TERF thinks?

You don't believe there should be any separate spaces based on sex??

Changing rooms, prisons, sports, should all be mixed sex?

 

[Lisa]

You don't believe there should be any separate spaces based on sex??

Changing rooms, prisons, sports, should all be mixed sex?

That is not what I said, so drop the gaslighting because you don't believe that trans people are their identified gender. This is just another backward way of attacking trans people.


I hate intellectually dishonest TERFs.

 

[seymourflops]

You know socialists don't really like liberals that much, right?

Under some definitions of those words, sure.

 

[Aristaeus]

That is not what I said, so drop the gaslighting because you don't believe that trans people are their identified gender. This is just another backward way of attacking trans people.


I hate intellectually dishonest TERFs.

If you oppose separate but equal In terms of women/transwomen, then by definition you oppose single-sex spaces.

 

[Lisa]

If you oppose separate but equal In terms of women/transwomen, then by definition you oppose single-sex spaces.

Transwomen are women, the same as CIS females. You want to claim that trans females are male.

 

[Aristaeus]

Transwomen are women, the same as CIS females. You want to claim that trans females are male.

Transwomen are biologically male.

 

[buck]

Transwomen are biologically male.

She didn't do well with the "one of these things are not like the other" game when she was a kid.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The whole point of altering the language for political purposes, as Orwell explained, is to make it more difficult for people to think. In 1984, The Party eliminated the word "free" except for uses such as "free from fleas," or "free from bacteria," or "free from thoughtcrime."

In the real world, American authoritarians are trying to reduce the use of the word "freedom," by countering with the mocking "freedumb." That is brilliant. Seriously, my hat is off. They already appropriated the word "liberal" from libertarians by calling American Socialists - who hate liberty above all else - "liberals."

But, by allowing the distinction between "sex," and "gender," they have allowed people who believe in the principle that A is A and that freedom rests on the ability to say that "A is A," they have given their opponents a language to fight back, i.e., "sure, people of the female 'gender' can join the boy's football team. But you have to be of the female sex to join the girls wrestling team."

I predict that soon the authoritarians will realize their mistake and tell us that sex, too, is a social construct.

Where you end up ultimately and entirely wrong is the concept of authoritarianism being the answer from only your opposition.

One of the real lessons from 1984, that the right way overuses for all the wrong reasons, is "Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meaning rubbed out and forgotten." Intention to define, limit, and control. That is bipartisan.

If we agree that all political extremism ends in authoritarianism to hold their ideals above a marginalized opposition then the ultimate goal is reducing all arguments to overly simplistic words and phrases as a means to control the debate and the outcome. This is true of far right social and/or religious based conservatism and is also true of far left "democratic socialism" and/or modern liberalism.

Your other problem is associating modern liberalism with classical liberalism, and those two are entirely unrelated. If anything, classical liberalism is based on individualism which became libertarianism in our climate. Modern liberalism is the extreme opposite entirely based on community and collectivism. Modern liberalism owns the Democratic Party today just as social conservatism owns the Republican Party.

If we are being truthful, which is rare around DP these days, there is no home for classical liberals, moderates, and independents in our political system. Both front running parties are all for authoritarianism of some form and some degree when it suits them.

The issue with removal of sexual orientation and identification from gender was dealing with another "social construct" that has roots in another form of authoritarianism. Don't get me wrong, defining gender is not at all authoritarian but defining place in a society is. The moment one crosses the line in using how words are defined to impact legislation or regulation, impact social and economic participation, you are in fact leaning to authoritarianism to make that plausible no matter how mild or passive.

A classical liberal does not care what pronoun someone wants to use for themselves, nor cares for what someone's sexual identity and/or sexual orientation is, nor cares for any government to define or even approach the subject.

You and your opposition on the other hand... another matter entirely.

 

[bomberfox]

Companies could avoid a lot of this by just treating even the burger flipper like a human being.

 

[bomberfox]

Transwomen are biologically male.

Then you dont recognize trans women. Why lie and pretend you do?

 

[bomberfox]

Transwomen are biologically male.

Separate but equal has always been a lie.

 

[wellwisher]

I tend to think concept of gender is an introduction designed to make every day Halloween. On Halloween, you get to be anyone or anything you want with total acceptance from others. A boy can dress as a girl and that is OK on Halloween. But the rest of the year, you are not allowed to be a pirate or leopard, since this would be considered on looney lane.

Gender dress-up day differs from Halloween, in that each day of the gender year is Halloween. The advantage of this is connected to the free market. The marketeers have constructed a new customer base,who needs and even demands costumes and accessories and access to medical technology. All the different types of gender costumes even now have labels; give me a him-her-she size 8.

 

[Lisa]

Transwomen are biologically male.

It is their gender identity that says that they are female. The brain controls the body. They do not see themselves as male, despite their DNA. This is what you and Buck do not understand because you are fixated on what you see and now what they experience. You do not understand the vast difference between a crossdresser and a trans female.


Your TERF views dont allow you to discuss this subject intelligently.

She didn't do well with the "one of these things are not like the other" game when she was a kid.

Trans females are not male. That is why they are trans female. How many times and how many ways does this need to be explained to you?

 

[bomberfox]

It is their gender identity that says that they are female. The brain controls the body. They do not see themselves as male, despite their DNA. This is what you and Buck do not understand because you are fixated on what you see and now what they experience. You do not understand the vast difference between a crossdresser and a trans female.


Your TERF views dont allow you to discuss this subject intelligently.


Trans females are not male. That is why they are trans female. How many times and how many ways does this need to be explained to you?

Terfs try to get around this by acknowledging fully transitioned trans women sometimes but the lie is shown when they go back to the biological essentialism view of women. If you say adult human female, there is no room for trans women period. I just wish TERFs were more honest.

 

[Aristaeus]

It is their gender identity that says that they are female. The brain controls the body. They do not see themselves as male, despite their DNA. This is what you and Buck do not understand because you are fixated on what you see and now what they experience. You do not understand the vast difference between a crossdresser and a trans female.


Your TERF views dont allow you to discuss this subject intelligently.


Trans females are not male. That is why they are trans female. How many times and how many ways does this need to be explained to you?

Transwomen are biologically male. Their sex is male, which is why the have male reproductive organs and go through male puberty.

Look, if you think pre-op transwomen should be able to get their dick out in the women's changing rooms, fine, but at least have the integrity to accept that requires the abolishment of single-sex spaces. Don't just pretend transwomen are biologically female, because that's just insane.

 

[Lisa]

Terfs try to get around this by acknowledging fully transitioned trans women sometimes but the lie is shown when they go back to the biological essentialism view of women. If you say adult human female, there is no room for trans women period. I just wish TERFs were more honest.

They cannot be honest because that would force them to admit their bigotry, just like racists refuse to admit their racism. They want to sit on the fence posts and claim that their aren't bigots, all the while mouthing transphobic dog whistles. They seek to take gaslighting to an art form. The idea of biological essentialism is as insane as religious fundamentalism.

Transwomen are biologically male. Their sex is male, which is why the have male reproductive organs and go through male puberty.

Look, if you think pre-op transwomen should be able to get their dick out in the women's changing rooms, fine, but at least have the integrity to accept that requires the abolishment of single-sex spaces. Don't just pretend transwomen are biologically female, because that's just insane.

Do you not understand that women wear a towel in the changing room? We don't walk around nude even when we are CIS. Trans females also wear a towel. Most trans females hate their penis and would not want to show it off like a trophy.

 

[Aristaeus]

Terfs try to get around this by acknowledging fully transitioned trans women sometimes but the lie is shown when they go back to the biological essentialism view of women. If you say adult human female, there is no room for trans women period. I just wish TERFs were more honest.

Don't blame me for what the dictionary says. Adult human female has been the definition of woman since the word was created.

If woman doesn't mean female, then why do transwomen take hormones and surgery to make themselves look more like females?

 

[buck]

Transwomen are biologically male. Their sex is male, which is why the have male reproductive organs and go through male puberty.

This is obviously true. Transwomen are male. You are arguing with the equivalent of flat earthers. I'd recommend just stopping. I'll continue posting studies, but the claim that transwomen are actual females is too dumb to engage with.

 

[Lisa]

This is obviously true. Transwomen are male. You are arguing with the equivalent of flat earthers. I'd recommend just stopping. I'll continue posting studies, but the claim that transwomen are actual females is too dumb to engage with.

The brain controls the body, so they are functionally female. This is why they are transgender females and not cross-dressers, who have a male gender identity. You still fail to grasp gender identity because you are driven visually and apparently unable to understand the idea of an incongruent brain gender that goes against what you see between their legs or other secondary sex characteristics.

Psychological gender identity has been explained to you multiple times in multiple threads and still you do not understand it. The fact that you do not understand or you refuse to accept it doesn't change the facts of gender identity.

 

[buck]

The brain controls the body, so they are functionally female. This is why they are transgender females and not cross-dressers, who have a male gender identity. You still fail to grasp gender identity because you are driven visually and apparently unable to understand the idea of an incongruent brain gender that goes against what you see between their legs or other secondary sex characteristics.

Psychological gender identity has been explained to you multiple times in multiple threads and still you do not understand it. The fact that you do not understand or you refuse to accept it doesn't change the facts of gender identity.

Lol. Well done on so many levels.