Did they abandon democracy in the name of winning.

[NatMorton]

It's difficult to say, isn't it.

At some level I think they still want the first woman President to be a Republican, so the unwillingness to hand it to Harris by removing Biden.

On another level, we know a few Republicans in the Congress should be removed if the bar is mental fitness due to advanced age. We tend to overlook this due to their long service and allow their staff to run things so that the politician can have some dignity and a State funeral.

My last thought would be it's just a political calculation that Harris is more beatable if she is not already sitting in the Oval Office.


Likely some combination of all of the above.

I think going after Biden for real could easily create a public backlash. Biden is now a pitiable figure.

Besides, I think Republicans are actually powerless in this regard. Impeachment is a process for removing a president for bad behavior, not for incapacity to serve. The correct process for that is the 25th Amendment, and that process has to start with the VP and the cabinet. I think you'll hear the Republicans continue to bring up the 25th, but that's really just to keep in the news the fact that Democrats lied about Biden's condition.

 

[Kblaster49]

View attachment 67522957

I’ve been reading this thread trying to think of how to respond to the hypocritical
conservative poutrage about democracy and this response is perfect.

 

[Airyaman]

I know how they are chosen, and Joe Biden was chosen. The electors are bond to him, with him dropping out party rules say they are free to vote for anyone they like.

Just seems a little odd that anyone they like is not on the menu. Seems the party has only one choice on the menu.

Are we going to sit here and predend that the person who could not get out of the Iowa caucuses on her own last time around is the most democratic choice?

Does anyone honestly believe that Harris would be the nominee if a vote of the party was taken?

Who was going to challenge her? Marianne Williamson?

 

[nvflash]

I think going after Biden for real could easily create a public backlash. Biden is now a pitiable figure.

Besides, I think Republicans are actually powerless in this regard. Impeachment is a process for removing a president for bad behavior, not for incapacity to serve. The correct process for that is the 25th Amendment, and that process has to start with the VP and the cabinet. I think you'll hear the Republicans continue to bring up the 25th, but that's really just to keep in the news the fact that Democrats lied about Biden's condition.

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.


Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department [sic][note 2][7] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

Seems the ball is in Harris's court once again.

Could be an issue for her before the general if Biden pulls another 'Joe' moment on live TV.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It only appears that way because the Democrats are not willing to publicly acknowledge what has become obvious to those of us with open eyes and hears: Joe Biden's cognitive decline has rendered him unfit to run and unfit to serve. They had no other choice.

They had the choice to do the same thing before the DNC POTUS primary, but chose to do this instead. Of course, that would likely have resulted in a having a different 2024 DNC POTUS candidate, since Kamala Harris did poorly (to be kind) in her 2020 DNC POTUS primary attempt.

 

[j brown's body]

You know I find it a little funny that the party that has been running around telling everyone that if Trump is elected again it will be the end of democracy seems to be the party that has abandoned the fundamental principles of democracy.

Throughout the Democratic Party's primary processes Joe Biden was selected by votes of the people in the several states to be the candidate at the top of the ticket for his party.

Thus is the democratic process, but now that Biden has been forced to withdraw, no primaries will take place and no challengers will be accepted.

This in no way reflects the will of the people, it is the will of the elites in the Democratic Party because they value winning the general election above the fundamental principles of democracy.

Biden's forced withdraw did put things into a tough position, and I will agree that it's just not feasible to redo all the state primaries, but there certainly is plenty of time to hold an open primary going into the convention. Allow challengers to declare and be heard, but somehow none are stepping forward?


I find this all very undemocratic, and I would like to remind people that principles only have meaning when standing up for them costs you something. If you adhere to a principle, you don't just toss it out because it no longer serves your interests.

So what say you, have the Democrats tossed democracy under the bus in the name of winning?

Is winning the the general election more important than the democratic process?

I don't believe there is a prohibition to challenging her.

I don't think there is enough time. I feel like the party did the best it could under the circumstances. If Biden had dropped out once he was nominated because he felt he was no longer up to the task, the nomination would go to her. And they voted for her when they voted for Biden.

Political parties are supposed to be gatekeepers. In the past they have kept demagogues like Henry Ford and General McArthur from getting the nomination.

It is a testament to the impotency of the Republicsn Party that it couldn't keep Trump from getting the nomination. We all have to live with the consequences of that.

 

[NatMorton]

Seems the ball is in Harris's court once again.

Could be an issue for her before the general if Biden pulls another 'Joe' moment on live TV.

I think Joe will have very few unscripted opportunities in front of a live mic between now and election day.

 

[NatMorton]

They had the choice to do the same thing before the DNC POTUS primary, but chose to do this instead. Of course, that would likely have resulted in a having a different 2024 DNC POTUS candidate, since Kamala Harris did poorly (to be kind) in her 2020 DNC POTUS primary attempt.

I have to believe that behind closed doors many in the DNC are saying "What the hell were we thinking?"

 

[Big Brother]

Other.

The initial plan was to have Joe “Where am I?” Biden run (and beat Trump) again based on his superior (legislative) record and ‘character’, but that fell apart after the Robert Hur report and the (oddly early) POTUS debate with Trump.

About a month after the debate, the donor class demanded that Joe “Where am I?” Biden be replaced (at least for the 2024 POTUS race) since his cognitive decline had become impossible to keep hidden. The plan became to ‘let’ Biden suspend his campaign, praise that as being yet another brilliant Biden decision (full of character and patriotism?) and ignore the (rigged?) 2024 DNC POTUS primary process, freeing Biden’s delegates to ‘bless’ a replacement candidate selected and endorsed by Biden.

The rebranding of Kamala Harris, from the flaky, far-left leaning loon she was seen as during her 2020 DNC POTUS primary campaign to some form of easily electable ‘moderate’ (just like Biden but a generation younger?) is now fully underway. As with Biden’s cognitive decline, never mind what Harris used to say (way back then?) about her policy positions because she has now (suddenly?) become Biden 2.0 (but more ‘diverse’ and younger) according to the bulk of the MSM.

God bless the Queen.

Nailed it, except for the last word. I would use DEI Hire.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I have to believe that behind closed doors many in the DNC are saying "What the hell were we thinking?"

There’s the possibility that the donor class felt that if they had a stronger, younger DNC POTUS candidate, before the RNC POTUS primary race, that the republicants would have chosen a stronger (more appealing to ‘independents’) ticket than Trump/Vance.

 

[multivita-man]

Thus is the democratic process, but now that Biden has been forced to withdraw, no primaries will take place and no challengers will be accepted.

This in no way reflects the will of the people, it is the will of the elites in the Democratic Party because they value winning the general election above the fundamental principles of democracy.

Not really, because when voters voted for Biden they did so with the assumption Harris would also be on the ticket, with the understanding that the aging Biden may eventually need to be replaced by the younger Harris. She became the de facto head of the party when Biden agreed to step aside. That's why there's been hardly any opposition from within the Democratic party to date.

Biden's forced withdraw did put things into a tough position, and I will agree that it's just not feasible to redo all the state primaries,

Okay...

but there certainly is plenty of time to hold an open primary going into the convention. Allow challengers to declare and be heard, but somehow none are stepping forward?

In modern elections, with fundraising and getting people's names on ballots in time being paramount, there really isn't much time to waste.

I find this all very undemocratic, and I would like to remind people that principles only have meaning when standing up for them costs you something. If you adhere to a principle, you don't just toss it out because it no longer serves your interests.

So what say you, have the Democrats tossed democracy under the bus in the name of winning?

No. Voters will be able to vote in the general election. We'll find out then if this process pays off. So far it seems like it has, but it will ultimately depend on the kind of campaign Harris organizes and the messages and themes she delivers.

Is winning the the general election more important than the democratic process?

Yes. Democracy hasn't been tainted in this case. The only ones who seem to be complaining about it are Republicans and maybe some noisy independents who value process for process' sake.

 

[Big Brother]

Speaking of democracy, who wants to bet that this election will have way more election "irregularities" than the last one? It's going to be a blast seeing the neo-leftists try to peer pressure the skeptics into believing that this election, where The DEI Hire has absolutely no chance in hell yet will miraculously win, will have been even more safe than any other in the history of elections. By the way, another neo-leftist just got reelected, with just enough votes, in Venezuela. Safest election ever, just like here in 2020. Anyone notice a trend going on in the world where the opposition to the neo-leftists is growing, yet they keep surprising everyone at the polls?

 

[Cardinal]

Man, conservatives sure are upset that they aren’t running against Biden.

 

[nvflash]

I have to believe that behind closed doors many in the DNC are saying "What the hell were we thinking?"

I think there is a lot of that going around to be sure and it's not just confined to the Democratic Party.

Anyway, the word democracy exists zero times in The Constitution for the Untied States of America.

We don't have a Democracy, we have a Republic, and the states are granted a republican form of government.

Now a Republic assumes some form of democratic vote, but it does not grantee a popular vote.


While many in the Democratic Party claim to want a popular vote for just about everything, they only want that when they feel they will win that vote.

Would anyone like to ask Great Britain how that Brexit popular vote is turning out?

Anyway, what the Democratic Party is doing is underhanded, but not illegal. They are only bound by their party rules until after the DNC, and while they may be acting in a very undemocratic way, they are still fallowing their party rules.

Let's just not pretend either party truly wants Democracy, truth is the parties hate that, but they must live with the limited form we have every few years, lest their heads get served up like Joe Biden's.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nailed it, except for the last word. I would use DEI Hire.

The demorats had been playing ‘identity politics’ and promoting ‘affirmative action’ since long before the DEI label was invented (as a replacement?).

 

[Big Brother]

There’s the possibility that the donor class felt that if they had a stronger, younger DNC POTUS candidate, before the RNC POTUS primary race, that the republicants would have chosen a stronger (more appealing to ‘independents’) ticket than Trump/Vance.

I think it's all about the cash flow. Joe Biden caused a crash in cash flow and that is the most important thing for the DNC. His eventual loss would have meant reduced cash flow for a long time. By using Harris and playing the race and gender cards, they can eventually say her loss was because of the racist sexist people instead of the incompetent candidate and their cash flow will continue just fine as they continue to milk the race and gender BS to its maximum. I'm willing to bet that if the democrats would stop using these two issues just to get votes and keep the people divided, they would most likely just go away as people could go back to just being Americans. Ditto for all the other Identity Politics issues. It is the democrats who have severed the unity of the people with all this Identity Politics BS.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Nope, I never made that claim.

What I did claim is Harris is the only choice on the menu for delegates who are now free to vote for whoever they like.

So I suppose whoever they like better be Harris, I just wonder how this very undemocratic turn of events came to be.

It's going to be very hard to claim you are the party out to save democracy with only one choice on the menu, but Stalin would be proud of you.

Let us not mince words, we know that Democrats don't care about democracy if it means they are not going to win.

So far, to the best of my knowledge, no democrat hopeful has spoken out or complained about the process. All the possible hopefuls have fully endorsed Harris and are actively campaigning for her.

While I agree, the process has looked a little shady, however, it's only republicans complaining about it. If this Trump guy was so damn confident he could win, why doesn't he just go on and win and quit whining.

We have had a number of MAGA posters here claim that 'this is war'. Well, if that's the case, quit complaining and fight your battles. If it's OK for MAGA to consider this a war, then democrats can approach it the same way.

Whatever it takes to win within legal boundaries. The difference is the GOP won't stay within legal boundaries. Jan. 6th and the 2020 election fraud lie is living proof of that.

 

[Cardinal]

Nailed it, except for the last word. I would use DEI Hire.

Man, conservatives sure do hate black women.

 

[j brown's body]

The demorats had been playing ‘identity politics’ and promoting ‘affirmative action’ since long before the DEI label was invented (as a replacement?).

Its only the Democrats if you don't consider being white an identity. And I get it, most whites just think of themselves as the default mode.

The Republicans wouldn't dare put a person of color on the ticket.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Man, conservatives sure are upset that they aren’t running against Biden.

The republicants can still run against the Biden policies, but can they get away with saying that Kamala Harris did nothing while also saying that she fully supported Biden’s policies?

 

[j brown's body]

Speaking of democracy, who wants to bet that this election will have way more election "irregularities" than the last one? It's going to be a blast seeing the neo-leftists try to peer pressure the skeptics into believing that this election, where The DEI Hire has absolutely no chance in hell yet will miraculously win, will have been even more safe than any other in the history of elections. By the way, another neo-leftist just got reelected, with just enough votes, in Venezuela. Safest election ever, just like here in 2020. Anyone notice a trend going on in the world where the opposition to the neo-leftists is growing, yet they keep surprising everyone at the polls?

As usual, the irregularities will only exist were Trump loses.

 

[WillyPete]

Biden wasn't forced out, he decided to drop out. If he was compelled, you'll need to demonstrate that.

The Democratic convention hasn't occurred, and so technically I don't believe Harris is the candidate quite yet.

As private organizations, political parties' rules are not legally binding. You can't sue the party for fudging their internal elections, if they decide that's what they want to do. It's between their leaders and their members.

 

[Peter]

I think Joe will have very few unscripted opportunities in front of a live mic between now and election day.

He doesn't need to.
He isn't in the running and has better things to do as President.

 

[Cardinal]

The republicants can still run against the Biden policies, but can they get away with saying that Kamala Harris did nothing while also saying that she fully supported Biden’s policies?

Republicans can say whatever they want to say. What they can’t do is force people to be take what they say seriously.

 

[The AntiDonald]

I have to believe that behind closed doors many in the DNC are saying "What the hell were we thinking?"

As long as we beat Trump in November, they can write a book for all I'm concerned.