Dems Minimum wage war is a fool's gold

[windowdressing]

Let me know next time a Wal-Mart employee has to make decisions such as the CEO makes, then you'll have something valid to discuss, 'kay?

1043 times more? In any event, the Wal Mart worker makes a bad decision, s/he is fired. The CEO makes a bad decision and s/he walks away with 10, 15 million dollar golden parachute. Also, and this was my favorite during the election, Romney argued that as a business man he knew how to create jobs, when in the business world you get points for eliminating jobs or driving down wages and benefits to a near subsistence level ... the level of false consciousness in this country is astounding ... when you get that and what the race to the bottom means, then you'll have something valid to discuss , 'kay?'

 

[Buck Ewer]

Repiglicons want slave labor.
Democrats want all Americans to at least have the oppertunity to make a living.
This is a good idea for all of America.

 

[Campbell]

That's about right. One sixty-five year old, two eighteen-year olds and one 17 year olds and you've got an average age of 29 even though only one of the four has reached drinking age.

That's so full of ****. In this current movement they have interviewed several single mothers who work double shifts in those places to pay their rent and keep their lights on. Stay in that Republican bubble and see what it gets you. No wait......ask Romney where it got him.

 

[GottaGo]

1043 times more? In any event, the Wal Mart worker makes a bad decision, s/he is fired. The CEO makes a bad decision and s/he walks away with 10, 15 million dollar golden parachute. Also, and this was my favorite during the election, Romney argued that as a business man he knew how to create jobs, when in the business world you get points for eliminating jobs or driving down wages and benefits to a near subsistence level ... the level of false consciousness in this country is astounding ... when you get that and what the race to the bottom means, then you'll have something valid to discuss , 'kay?'

Most higher management have a full understanding of the value of employees, the number needed to run efficiently but not be over bloated with excess staff, and what the wage market will require.

An employee will rarely 'get fired' for making one bad decision, unless it's a blatant violation of written company policy. They will be counseled, reprimanded perhaps, but rarely fired. It's when they make a multitude of bad decisions that their job goes on the line.

When a CEO or other higher management is brought into a company under contract, certain things a re specified on that contract, including termination and what might be paid on termination. The contract is approved by a BOD or shareholders, it's not like they don't know what's in it.

What I don't comprehend is why people worry about what some CEO is making. What you yourself make is all dependent on you, not what someone else makes. Those who are in the lower income levels should be doing the best they can, not worrying about what anyone one else makes. Making your own value in the market place is the only thing that should concern any wage earner.

 

[windowdressing]

Most higher management have a full understanding of the value of employees, the number needed to run efficiently but not be over bloated with excess staff, and what the wage market will require.

An employee will rarely 'get fired' for making one bad decision, unless it's a blatant violation of written company policy. They will be counseled, reprimanded perhaps, but rarely fired. It's when they make a multitude of bad decisions that their job goes on the line.

When a CEO or other higher management is brought into a company under contract, certain things a re specified on that contract, including termination and what might be paid on termination. The contract is approved by a BOD or shareholders, it's not like they don't know what's in it.

What I don't comprehend is why people worry about what some CEO is making. What you yourself make is all dependent on you, not what someone else makes. Those who are in the lower income levels should be doing the best they can, not worrying about what anyone one else makes. Making your own value in the market place is the only thing that should concern any wage earner.

wow ... ya mean that the "free market" really is free? It's not a rigged game? listen, go ahead and defend this growing inequality, I'll pass ... it's clear you and I are not going to have a meeting of the minds on this ... I've had this conversation with cons much too often and the result is always the same ... maybe another time ... take care ...

 

[Sisyphus]

New York's fast food workers are on strike for better wages.
While I do believe wages need to keep pace with inflation ...but more importantly with company profits ...I think the minimum wage issue for dems is masking the problem.
The real problem with the fast food workers are ....those jobs were never intended for people to raise a family, pay rent in NEW YORK ...and take vacations. Those jobs were for college kids to get pocket change for school and summer activities.

I don't mind paying extra for fast food ....but it will never change the plight of those working these jobs ...in NEW YORK....thinking they're going to get ahead!!

Stop the madness ...this is an argument ...I'm surprised republicans fail to clarify. Yes we need to look at wages ...across every occupation ...because companies are raking in record profits ...and most workers never share in the profits. But these McDonalds workers are being conned on this one!! At $50K a year in New York ....a single guy with no kids and no wife to support is barely getting by!!

Do these people with their families want $100K/year to flip burgers??

Dems and republicans failure to work together is why nothing will ever change ...or get better!!

Whether or not that is the intent, MW-workers are nearly 50% over the age of 25, and rife with heads of households ... not that it matters. The reason to raise the wage minimum is to lower unemployment (which it does) by growing consumer spending, the life blood of the retail sector, which is our fastest growing sector, and creating the most new jobs. And as an aside, the bulk of these job cannot be outsourced, as unskilled manufacturing can be, is, and still would be even if we paid $1/hr. We cannot compete with the bottom-feeders who have large peasant work forces, and never will -- HOPEFULLY (read: Republican do not get their way)

Plus it creates upward pressure on wages above the Minimum, improving the lives of our Middle Class, and driving more consumer spending, to create more jobs still.

 

[Papa bull]

That's so full of ****. In this current movement they have interviewed several single mothers who work double shifts in those places to pay their rent and keep their lights on. Stay in that Republican bubble and see what it gets you. No wait......ask Romney where it got him.

Oh, well, if several single mothers are working double shifts in places like that, then that must reflect the general demographic of fast food workers. I can see why someone that has very bad reasoning skills could come to that conclusion in spite of the visible evidence to the contrary everywhere they go.

 

[jonny5]

Repiglicons want slave labor.
Democrats want all Americans to at least have the oppertunity to make a living.
This is a good idea for all of America.

Dont you mean Demoncraps?

 

[jonny5]

That's so full of ****. In this current movement they have interviewed several single mothers who work double shifts in those places to pay their rent and keep their lights on. Stay in that Republican bubble and see what it gets you. No wait......ask Romney where it got him.

Why did they have children? Why do they live in one of the most expensive cities?

 

[ocean515]

Whether or not that is the intent, MW-workers are nearly 50% over the age of 25, and rife with heads of households ... not that it matters. The reason to raise the wage minimum is to lower unemployment (which it does) by growing consumer spending, the life blood of the retail sector, which is our fastest growing sector, and creating the most new jobs. And as an aside, the bulk of these job cannot be outsourced, as unskilled manufacturing can be, is, and still would be even if we paid $1/hr. We cannot compete with the bottom-feeders who have large peasant work forces, and never will -- HOPEFULLY (read: Republican do not get their way)

Plus it creates upward pressure on wages above the Minimum, improving the lives of our Middle Class, and driving more consumer spending, to create more jobs still.

So in the case of a McDonalds, for example, you'd push for a universal retail price increase for all food sold in all fast food restaurants to cover the increased labor expense caused by an increase in minimum wage?

 

[KevinKohler]

What happens in the US, when these jobs are the only ones hiring?

 

[Papa bull]

What happens in the US, when these jobs are the only ones hiring?

Pigs will fly.

 

[KevinKohler]

Pigs will fly.

The number one employer in the US is Walmart. The next two are temp agencies that cater to cheap, temporary, day to day labor. 1/3 of all the jobs added since 08' are retail, or temp, or part time.

Ignore these facts or not, it's you choice, pops.

 

[Sisyphus]

So in the case of a McDonalds, for example, you'd push for a universal retail price increase for all food sold in all fast food restaurants to cover the increased labor expense caused by an increase in minimum wage?

No. I'd push for a wage minimum increase so they'd sell more burgers, keeping costs down, like they did when we last raised the FMW, over 40% in just two years. Note that the price-inflation of Big Macs actually slowed, following a 40%+ increase in hourly wage costs:

 

[Papa bull]

The number one employer in the US is Walmart. The next two are temp agencies that cater to cheap, temporary, day to day labor. 1/3 of all the jobs added since 08' are retail, or temp, or part time.

Ignore these facts or not, it's you choice, pops.

The fact is that there MUST be a variety of jobs or the economy collapses and then fast food won't be on anyone's menu, son. Crack a book and learn something about economics.

 

[KevinKohler]

The fact is that there MUST be a variety of jobs or the economy collapses and then fast food won't be on anyone's menu, son. Crack a book and learn something about economics.

Cracked several books, pops. I actually used to believe exactly as you do. But times change. Old ideas are just that, old ideas.

Which isn't to say wrong. But the problem is ongoing. Decent paying jobs aren't being generated at the same rate as crap jobs. In fact, we've been LOSING more decent wage jobs than we've been gaining.

We're turning into a nation of retail workers, and unless we want to be a poverty stricken nation of retail workers, something needs to change, and fast.

 

[ocean515]

No. I'd push for a wage minimum increase so they'd sell more burgers, keeping costs down, like they did when we last raised the FMW, over 40% in just two years. Note that the price-inflation of Big Macs actually slowed, following a 40%+ increase in hourly wage costs:

Do you know what the average operating income is for a McDonalds? With crew labor averaging 20% of net sales, a 40% increase in crew labor cost would put the store out of business.

I don't think the plan should play so much to stereotype.

 

[Sisyphus]

Do you know what the average operating income is for a McDonalds? With crew labor averaging 20% of net sales, a 40% increase in crew labor cost would put the store out of business.

I don't think the plan should play so much to stereotype.

Then going by your thesis, the 42.1% increase in the FMW in 06/07 is what put McDonald's out of business by 2008, and caused McD's corp's stock to tank so badly it was de-listed from NYSE.

Oops, facts contradict your thesis ...

 

[Papa bull]

Cracked several books, pops. I actually used to believe exactly as you do. But times change. Old ideas are just that, old ideas.

Which isn't to say wrong. But the problem is ongoing. Decent paying jobs aren't being generated at the same rate as crap jobs. In fact, we've been LOSING more decent wage jobs than we've been gaining.

We're turning into a nation of retail workers, and unless we want to be a poverty stricken nation of retail workers, something needs to change, and fast.

It's always the low-end jobs that are created first. Same thing happened during the Bush "jobless recovery"... once the jobs started being created, all the lefties were sniveling that they were all burger fllipping jobs. Eventually, they had to quit crying about that, too, because as the economy started to get it's equilibrium, the full range of jobs began opening up again.

Don't fret so much about the minimum wage jobs. They'll always be a very small part of our economy just like they are now (only about 3 percent of all jobs are minimum wage).

 

[Sisyphus]

It's always the low-end jobs that are created first. Same thing happened during the Bush "jobless recovery"... once the jobs started being created, all the lefties were sniveling that they were all burger fllipping jobs. Eventually, they had to quit crying about that, too, because as the economy started to get it's equilibrium, the full range of jobs began opening up again.

Don't fret so much about the minimum wage jobs. They'll always be a very small part of our economy just like they are now (only about 3 percent of all jobs are minimum wage).

Which economic theory posits that?

 

[ocean515]

Then going by your thesis, the 42.1% increase in the FMW in 06/07 is what put McDonald's out of business by 2008, and caused McD's corp's stock to tank so badly it was de-listed from NYSE.

Oops, facts contradict your thesis ...

You didn't address the questions. Awesome deflection and snark though.

Do you know how to read an income statement?

 

[Papa bull]

Which economic theory posits that?

Economic history, not theory. It's what happened during the Bush recovery (democrats accused all the jobs of being "McJobs") and it's what's happening now. It's normal. Lower paying jobs require less thought and planning to add and are, of course, the least expensive. So they come first.

 

[Sisyphus]

You didn't address the questions. Awesome deflection and snark though.

Do you know how to read an income statement?

Yes; but then, if I want to know what labor is costing me, I read the P&L.

 

[Sisyphus]

Economic history, not theory. It's what happened during the Bush recovery and it's what's happening now. It's normal. Lower paying jobs require less thought and planning to add and are, of course, the least expensive. So they come first.

Which one? Shock process proxy, perhaps? Or something else, which shows the aggregate being low-income jobs spiking first? Do tell, since it's a novel idea and I'm eager to learn.

 

[Papa bull]

Which one? Shock process proxy, perhaps? Or something else, which shows the aggregate being low-income jobs spiking first? Do tell, since it's a novel idea and I'm eager to learn.

Maybe you should learn the difference between history and theory first. I just explained to you that this has HISTORICALLY been the case during a recovery. First the "McJobs" and then eventually the better jobs start opening up more as the economy stabilizes. You can google up the "Bush Recovery" and "McJobs" if you want to educate yourself.