Democrats ARE For Open Borders

[Trump]

I'm afraid you won't be gaslighting anyone out of believing their lying eyes and ears with that swill. It's just another page from Karl Rove's guidebook for attempting to "demoralize" liberals on the internet.

:coffeepap

when Dems asked on campaign trail if they're for open borders....the reply is convoluted complicated and unknowing....so win on that in 2020:2wave:

 

[ultmd]

The courts are being restored from the activist status back to the judicial status.
Oh, and "elections have consequences".

womp
womp

Ignoring the ignorance....

I see that your response, above, is a complete dodge of my actual rebuttal to your original bat-crap crazy, rightwing conspiracy theory screed.

Of course, there is no rebuttal to the FACTS about the agenda your side has been pursuing:

• Voter Disenfranchisement and White Aggreivement/White Victimhood as lucrative cottage industries for angry, white conservatives with "issues" about race, religion and culture.
• Conservative Judicial Activism, which forever discredits the decades-old right wing promotion of "Strict Constructionism" and the pathetic whining about "judicial activism" from the Left.

At least you people have come out of hiding to confirm everything that many of us have been saying about you all for the last 40 years. It will be the cause of your downfall, in the long-term. But enjoy it now, while it still has some legs.

 

[Acadia]

Ignoring the ignorance....

I see that your response, above, is a complete dodge of my actual rebuttal to your original bat-crap crazy, rightwing conspiracy theory screed.

Of course, there is no rebuttal to the FACTS about the agenda your side has been pursuing:

• Voter Disenfranchisement and White Aggreivement/White Victimhood as lucrative cottage industries for angry, white conservatives with "issues" about race, religion and culture.
• Conservative Judicial Activism, which forever discredits the decades-old right wing promotion of "Strict Constructionism" and the pathetic whining about "judicial activism" from the Left.

At least you people have come out of hiding to confirm everything that many of us have been saying about you all for the last 40 years. It will be the cause of your downfall, in the long-term. But enjoy it now, while it still has some legs.

LOL :roll:
Turn off Maddow.

 

[haymarket]

that's got to be a joke,right?

wrong

 

[haymarket]

When did enforcing the nation's immigration laws become "the conservative hard line"? It's bad enough to have sanctuary city/state policies to entice illegal immigrants to move there, but to offer to give them public assistance goes entirely too far. If CA is that flush with cash then it is time to reduce their federal aid.

It is a clash of values. On the one hand, we have the idea that American dollars should be spent on Americans in need and certainly not people who are illegally here. On the other hand, we have the Christian Judeo idea that we feed the hungry and clothe the needy and house the homeless without looking too closely at why they need it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It is a clash of values. On the one hand, we have the idea that American dollars should be spent on Americans in need and certainly not people who are illegally here. On the other hand, we have the Christian Judeo idea that we feed the hungry and clothe the needy and house the homeless without looking too closely at why they need it.

When using your personal funds that is your call. When using funds taken by force of law from others then not so much.

 

[haymarket]

When using your personal funds that is your call. When using funds taken by force of law from others then not so much.

That is why society as a whole makes that call.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As I said before, Democrats aren't allowed to have an opinion, but it's okay now, because Republicans just need to let it sink in that Mr. Trump has announced that he has solved the immigration crisis thanks to his Mexico deal.

I guess it's going to take a while for them to get used to not whining and crying about the illegals anymore.

 

[veritas1]

Dems want open borders because they see lots of votes. Big business wants open borders because they see cheap labor. The drug cartels want open borders because they need to be able to get their product (drugs, guns, humans) over the border. The only people who want controlled borders are the harried and overworked US taxpayers, US law enforcement and President Trump. The only way to effect that is to build the wall and properly man it. Short of that, the problem will not go away.

 

[lurchadams]

Why do they keep denying it? They give illegals numerous incentives to come here.

California lawmakers agree to health benefits for immigrants

All republicans are pro-life unless they get their mistress pregnant. My post makes more sense than yours.

Access Denied

 

[Moderate Right]

It was actually a moment of lucidity for Cher to break from the Hollywood leftist pack and speak the truth: L.A. is a pit of homelessness and plague. But of course, she had to recant when the progressive mob attacked her and threatened to kick her out of the club.

It's as if she was not allowed to hold two separate beliefs at one time: No, she doesn't like Trump, and there are entirely too many homeless people on the streets of L.A., and importing MORE poverty will make it even worse, in fact, it will make it harder to help Americans living in filth and squalor.
Nope. Not permitted by the Stazi. Cher must parrot the mindthink of the collective. Individualism is not allowed.

That's what the left does. You either tow the party line or you get thrown out of the club.

 

[Acadia]

That's what the left does. You either tow the party line or you get thrown out of the club.

We already see them eating their own. My favorite was a gay pride parade where no gay pride flags featuring the star of David were allowed. Apparently Jews can only be members if they hate Israel.

 

[Mr Person]

CA = all democrats. Try again.

And uh... remind me how CA has ordered state officials to prevent the feds from securing that 100ish mile (out of thousands of total) border w/ Mexico. Because people in CA voting for and not voting out politicians who want to give benefits to illegals - rightly or wrongly - is not causing there to be open borders. The feds control the border, albeit crappily.

Shame Trump wants to take the dumbest approach possible rather than the mix recommended by people who actually do care: walls in some places, sensing equipment (fiberoptic wires, drones, etc), patrols, and more elsewhere. It's a difficult terrain in parts, and simply building a wall isn't going to do ****. If migration patterns adjust in response to changes, more changes should be made. But they need to be intelligent. It's a dynamic situation.

But Trump and his supporters want a show, not a result. So the fight has to be about a stupid ****ing wall, now doesn't it? Idiocracy.

Of course the dumbest thing about all this is if we had forced national e-verify (note: this can include playing games like withholding highway funds if unrelated state measures aren't adopted.....as they did with the drinking age) and a seriously ramped up penalty/enforcement system aimed at employers of illegals like Trump Organization, we'd cut off the purpose for people who aren't genuinely fleeing violence to come here. If they couldn't get a job, they wouldn't come here. You might get some, sure, and they'd go into cash-only or illegal businesses. But you'd cut out the vast bulk of anyone who is coming here simply to try to make more money.

And of course the sickest thing about it is that many are fleeing horrible situations. Maybe we can't afford to intervene in their country and rebuild it (and we wouldn't be able to get it right anyway. We never do). But if they're legit fleeing from violence and are good people willing to work what in the precise **** is supposed to be the problem?

Extra credit: we all know that Team Trump has been actively minimizing lawful asylum and other immigration procedures, right? He's not just going after illegal immigration.





I'll not just bold this but color code it: In fact, what he is doing - clamp down on lawful immigration, announce we'll be closing borders, then advocate for the one thing least likely to stop illegals - is designed to manufacture a crisis; to increase illegal immigration while providing a solution unlikely to be adopted which, if adopted, would not stop illegal immigration.

the more I read this type of response the more I know Trump will prevail in Wisconsin Michigan and PA in 2020....keep it up Dems...good work

I'm afraid you won't be gaslighting anyone out of believing their lying eyes and ears with that swill. It's just another page from Karl Rove's guidebook for attempting to "demoralize" liberals on the internet.

when Dems asked on campaign trail if they're for open borders....the reply is convoluted complicated and unknowing....so win on that in 2020

And now, reread what I said.

:coffeepap

Here's the problem: your guy only won because Hillary was the candidate AND Hillary ignored key states. Literally ignored them. Since then, your guy has made enemies of everyone other than the base. The base is small. But hey..... Team Trump isn't doing much about foreign interference in elections, so maybe...

 

[CharisRose]

And apparently you're ignoring the probability that the measure saves the state an enormous amount of money by eliminating the logjam of illegals flooding into Emergency Rooms. You're calling a money saving measure an incentive three days after Trump announced that he has solved the immigration problem, you're not even making sense anymore.

And you are ignoring the fact that if the past illegals never entered our country illegally they wouldn't have been flooding into emergency rooms.

No flooding, no need for a measure that saves the state an enormous amount of money by eliminating the logjam of illegals flooding into emergency rooms.

The open border advocates have only exasperated the problem and now additional money will be needed to take care of the recent illegals who have already flooded over our border.

Fact, no illegals, no need for a measure to save money. Result: Then, the State could use tax payer money to benefit their citizens and the people who have entered our country legally.

And, why did Trump need to solve the illegal immigration all by his lonesome?

Answer: Resistance from some of the Government Representatives who are open border advocates.

imho Roseann

 

[Acadia]

And you are ignoring the fact that if the past illegals never entered our country illegally they wouldn't have been flooding into emergency rooms.

No flooding, no need for a measure that saves the state an enormous amount of money by eliminating the logjam of illegals flooding into emergency rooms.

The open border advocates have only exasperated the problem and now additional money will be needed to take care of the recent illegals who have already flooded over our border.

Fact, no illegals, no need for a measure to save money. Result: Then, the State could use tax payer money to benefit their citizens and the people who have entered our country legally.

And, why did Trump need to solve the illegal immigration all by his lonesome?

Answer: Resistance from some of the Government Representatives who are open border advocates.

imho Roseann

Trump is STILL going it alone when it comes to border security and illegal immigration. He's trying every angle he can in order to mitigate the huge problem which only compounds itself with each and every illegal entry.
Meanwhile, the Democrats' contribution is voting for amnesty.
I don't get how any American can vote for a Democrat who puts illegals before them.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And you are ignoring the fact that if the past illegals never entered our country illegally they wouldn't have been flooding into emergency rooms.

You sound like the anti-gunners who say "If we'd never allowed guns in the first place".
Please spare me the nonsense, okay?
The whole illegal immigration issue has been inflated by Trump as a smokescreen.
And it doesn't change ONE IOTA about the Emergency Room issue because in addition to illegals, for years we had plain old UNINSURED POOR PEOPLE flooding into the Emergency Room.
Now let's hear you say "if poor people had never been allowed to exist..."

The fact is, the right doesn't give two ****s about illegals OR POOR people in general, so in effect, they're almost the same group because they have no voice, they have no rights, they have no money and they have no defenses.

And stop with the nonsense about "we ALLOWED them to enter our country illegally" because at various time this country has flip flopped back and forth on this issue a hundred times, so nice try but your attempt to blame this on one political party is a failure.

But as I keep saying, why aren't you celebrating? Don't you believe President Trump when he says he has fixed the problem?
Sounds like you don't actually believe him.

 

[CharisRose]

Trump is STILL going it alone when it comes to border security and illegal immigration. He's trying every angle he can in order to mitigate the huge problem which only compounds itself with each and every illegal entry.
Meanwhile, the Democrats' contribution is voting for amnesty.
I don't get how any American can vote for a Democrat who puts illegals before them.

Yes he is and I suspect he will need to continue on that course as long as the resistors continue on their negative course. I agree, and I have no problem with his trying every angle.

Of course they are voting for amnesty it fits their pattern of preference for illegals over American Citizens.

I don't get it either but there will be some Americans who will vote Democrat.

The moderate Democrats seem to have lost some of their power and the Socialist/close to Communist Democrat have gained that power and tend to be the rulers of the roost today.

All of the Democrats running for the Presidency today are not moderate Democrats they are way out there pushing the Socialist/close to Communist la la land freebie give away utopia.

imho Roseann

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

All of the Democrats running for the Presidency today are not moderate Democrats they are way out there pushing the Socialist/close to Communist la la land freebie give away utopia.

imho Roseann

See, this is what I was talking about when I said that America has been gradually shoved or dragged to the far Right over the last forty years. People who are ordinarily mainstream conservatives, or WERE, now sound like hysterical John Birchers.

ALL the DEMOCRATS ARE COMMUNISTS!!!1!1!!

Everything that isn't Trump-worship is communism now.

 

[HumblePi]

Why do they keep denying it? They give illegals numerous incentives to come here.

California lawmakers agree to health benefits for immigrants

Here's some facts. About 8 million of illegal immigrants have jobs, making up 5 percent of the U.S. workforce. Most concentrated in border states like California and Texas, where they make up about 9 percent of both states' workforces, while in Nevada, their share is over 10 percent.

Another fact that I'll bet you didn't know is that undocumented immigrants pay millions of dollars in state taxes — even in the reddest states. Yes, you're surprised and you don't believe it, but it's the truth. In fact, undocumented immigrants contribute billions of dollars in federal taxes each year, and their income taxes and payroll tax dollars are keeping Social Security and Medicare solvent. It’s also worth noting that undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollars in state and local taxes each year — in all 50 states.

That includes $7 billion in sales taxes and excise taxes, which are those paid on specific items like gas sales and vehicle registrations. Undocumented immigrants, like everyone else, pay for highway repairs, state courts, police, and firefighters. They also paid about $1.1 billion in state income taxes and $3.6 billion in property taxes that year — money that funds public schools, garbage collection, and other city services.

Undocumented workers contribute the most tax dollars to states with the largest populations: California, Texas, and New York. Yet some states that benefit the most from their tax money are red and blue states that Trump won in 2016: Florida, Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, and Arizona.

Oh, so you thought that undocumented workers are a drain on our government and take away your jobs? Well, you couldn't be more wrong. Health care is a right, not a privilege and giving subsidies to WORKING undocumented families is exactly the right thing to do. And guess what else? All those taxes they pay to the state and feds is money they'll never see. They can't ever collect the social security they're paying into, they can't go on Medicare when they turn 65, and they can't collect unemployment benefits.

Read more, get your mind out of the Trump anti-immigrant mindset gutter.

Illegal immigration taxes: Unauthorized immigrants pay state taxes - Vox

 

[CharisRose]

You sound like the anti-gunners who say "If we'd never allowed guns in the first place".
Please spare me the nonsense, okay?
The whole illegal immigration issue has been inflated by Trump as a smokescreen.
And it doesn't change ONE IOTA about the Emergency Room issue because in addition to illegals, for years we had plain old UNINSURED POOR PEOPLE flooding into the Emergency Room.
Now let's hear you say "if poor people had never been allowed to exist..."

The fact is, the right doesn't give two ****s about illegals OR POOR people in general, so in effect, they're almost the same group because they have no voice, they have no rights, they have no money and they have no defenses.

And stop with the nonsense about "we ALLOWED them to enter our country illegally" because at various time this country has flip flopped back and forth on this issue a hundred times, so nice try but your attempt to blame this on one political party is a failure.

But as I keep saying, why aren't you celebrating? Don't you believe President Trump when he says he has fixed the problem?
Sounds like you don't actually believe him.

I'm not an anti-gunner. Based on the 2nd amendment "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

I'm not anti-legal immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration. There is a difference between the two ways to enter and live in America.

Talking about a smoke screen...that is a negative political talking point used to resist A Duly Elected POTUS efforts to do something about the many years existence of a broken immigration policy that should have been fixed long ago via legislation instead of using it as political advantage to get re-elected.

And, if those uninsured poor people were American Citizens they deserved to flood the emergency room based on citizenship.

I would never say "if those poor American Citizens had never been allowed to exist."

In my day we had free clinics for the poor to use for their everyday medical needs. Doctors would volunteer to serve in those clinics. The poor only needed to use emergency rooms for emergencies.

I was working (age 17) but I was considered poor enough to access medical care at the free clinics.

Looks like free clinics still exist for the poor today as well.

https://www.ama-assn.org/sites/ama-...al-operational-guide-free-medical-clinics.pdf

There are religious and non-religious charitable organizations that help the poor.

There are organizations that help the homeless poor.

This Tech Nonprofit Is Trying to Help Homeless People Get IDs - VICE

Without ID, Homeless Trapped in Vicious Cycle | The Pew Charitable Trusts

Local Church Assistance Programs - Churches that Help with Bills

America's Best Charities

https://www.feedingamerica.org/need-help-find-food

I could provide many links but I think i provided enough to make my point.

I'm willing to blame any politician regardless of party but the negative resist party is the most noticeable currently.

I'm happy concerning what Trump has accomplished with Mexico. I think, he believes the problem has been fixed but he has left the tariffs on the back burner just in case Mexico doesn't abide by the agreement they recently made with America.

Time will tell if Mexico abides by that agreement.

Roseann

 

[CharisRose]

View attachment 67257962

See, this is what I was talking about when I said that America has been gradually shoved or dragged to the far Right over the last forty years. People who are ordinarily mainstream conservatives, or WERE, now sound like hysterical John Birchers.

ALL the DEMOCRATS ARE COMMUNISTS!!!1!1!!

Everything that isn't Trump-worship is communism now.

I said close to communist.

Roseann

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I said close to communist.

Roseann

Oh I see. That makes all that Bircherite nonsense okay then. Got it.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And, if those uninsured poor people were American Citizens they deserved to flood the emergency room based on citizenship.

EMTALA was passed in 1986 and signed by Reagan. The problem is, ER care is FIVE TIMES the cost of regular doctor or hospital care and

I would never say "if those poor American Citizens had never been allowed to exist."

But it's okay to say that about non-Americans. Did you not say you were pro-life? I guess you're just pro-birth.

In my day we had free clinics for the poor to use for their everyday medical needs. Doctors would volunteer to serve in those clinics. The poor only needed to use emergency rooms for emergencies.

I was working (age 17) but I was considered poor enough to access medical care at the free clinics.

I'm sixty-three years old so spare me the "In my day" business, because it was the same in MY day and you know I'm an old man, you've known it for some time. We've talked before, remember?

Looks like free clinics still exist for the poor today as well.

https://www.ama-assn.org/sites/ama-...al-operational-guide-free-medical-clinics.pdf

Here, take a look:

1. Primary Care
Free Medical Clinics provide primary care for minor, non-life threatening illnesses and injuries and should not be a substitute for emergency medical care. While specific services vary
from clinic to clinic, most conduct general physical exams17 and provide testing and treatment for chronic conditions (e.g., diabetes and high blood pressure)18 and minor medical
problems (e.g., headaches, sore throats, cough/colds, stomach issues).

Do you understand what people are talking about when they say "HEALTH CARE"? A free clinic for your troubled tummy isn't going to take the place of doctors and hospitals, like if you're having a heart attack, or you have cancer, or you broke your leg.

There are religious and non-religious charitable organizations that help the poor.

There are organizations that help the homeless poor.

This Tech Nonprofit Is Trying to Help Homeless People Get IDs - VICE

Without ID, Homeless Trapped in Vicious Cycle | The Pew Charitable Trusts

Local Church Assistance Programs - Churches that Help with Bills

America's Best Charities

https://www.feedingamerica.org/need-help-find-food

I could provide many links but I think i provided enough to make my point.

No you didn't make your point because most of these places are out of funds/food, etc by about the second week of every month.
But thanks for talking down to me as if I'm some idiot who has never investigated these places.
Did I mention that I am sixty three years old...AGAIN?
I'm sixty three years old, not seventeen.
I'm a parent to two kids, one healthy and one born disabled with five major heart defects, and my wife is a disabled Navy vet.
It's fascinating to see you speak about how I handle dealing with my situation in one part of this forum, then turn around and pretend I've never experienced medical emergencies or poverty right here in this thread. How do you do that?

I'm willing to blame any politician regardless of party but the negative resist party is the most noticeable currently.

To date, to the best of my knowledge, I've never seen you point to Republicans or Trump..ever, for anything.

I'm happy concerning what Trump has accomplished with Mexico. I think, he believes the problem has been fixed but he has left the tariffs on the back burner just in case Mexico doesn't abide by the agreement they recently made with America.

Time will tell if Mexico abides by that agreement.

Roseann

According to Trump's announcement, the illegal problem is fixed now. Seems you don't believe it.
And I don't believe this act of yours, try practicing some more.

 

[Fruityfact]

Here's some facts. About 8 million of illegal immigrants have jobs, making up 5 percent of the U.S. workforce. Most concentrated in border states like California and Texas, where they make up about 9 percent of both states' workforces, while in Nevada, their share is over 10 percent.

Another fact that I'll bet you didn't know is that undocumented immigrants pay millions of dollars in state taxes — even in the reddest states. Yes, you're surprised and you don't believe it, but it's the truth. In fact, undocumented immigrants contribute billions of dollars in federal taxes each year, and their income taxes and payroll tax dollars are keeping Social Security and Medicare solvent. It’s also worth noting that undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollars in state and local taxes each year — in all 50 states.

That includes $7 billion in sales taxes and excise taxes, which are those paid on specific items like gas sales and vehicle registrations. Undocumented immigrants, like everyone else, pay for highway repairs, state courts, police, and firefighters. They also paid about $1.1 billion in state income taxes and $3.6 billion in property taxes that year — money that funds public schools, garbage collection, and other city services.

Undocumented workers contribute the most tax dollars to states with the largest populations: California, Texas, and New York. Yet some states that benefit the most from their tax money are red and blue states that Trump won in 2016: Florida, Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, and Arizona.

Oh, so you thought that undocumented workers are a drain on our government and take away your jobs? Well, you couldn't be more wrong. Health care is a right, not a privilege and giving subsidies to WORKING undocumented families is exactly the right thing to do. And guess what else? All those taxes they pay to the state and feds is money they'll never see. They can't ever collect the social security they're paying into, they can't go on Medicare when they turn 65, and they can't collect unemployment benefits.

Read more, get your mind out of the Trump anti-immigrant mindset gutter.

Illegal immigration taxes: Unauthorized immigrants pay state taxes - Vox

It's not about the economics, it's about the color of their skin.

 

[joko104]

Here's some facts. About 8 million of illegal immigrants have jobs, making up 5 percent of the U.S. workforce. Most concentrated in border states like California and Texas, where they make up about 9 percent of both states' workforces, while in Nevada, their share is over 10 percent.

Another fact that I'll bet you didn't know is that undocumented immigrants pay millions of dollars in state taxes — even in the reddest states. Yes, you're surprised and you don't believe it, but it's the truth. In fact, undocumented immigrants contribute billions of dollars in federal taxes each year, and their income taxes and payroll tax dollars are keeping Social Security and Medicare solvent. It’s also worth noting that undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollars in state and local taxes each year — in all 50 states.

That includes $7 billion in sales taxes and excise taxes, which are those paid on specific items like gas sales and vehicle registrations. Undocumented immigrants, like everyone else, pay for highway repairs, state courts, police, and firefighters. They also paid about $1.1 billion in state income taxes and $3.6 billion in property taxes that year — money that funds public schools, garbage collection, and other city services.

Undocumented workers contribute the most tax dollars to states with the largest populations: California, Texas, and New York. Yet some states that benefit the most from their tax money are red and blue states that Trump won in 2016: Florida, Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, and Arizona.

Oh, so you thought that undocumented workers are a drain on our government and take away your jobs? Well, you couldn't be more wrong. Health care is a right, not a privilege and giving subsidies to WORKING undocumented families is exactly the right thing to do. And guess what else? All those taxes they pay to the state and feds is money they'll never see. They can't ever collect the social security they're paying into, they can't go on Medicare when they turn 65, and they can't collect unemployment benefits.

Read more, get your mind out of the Trump anti-immigrant mindset gutter.

Illegal immigration taxes: Unauthorized immigrants pay state taxes - Vox

All of that is nonsense. Overall illegal migrants overwhelmingly cost more by every measure.