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Defunding police is this a good idea?

beerftw

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Defunding police, I think it is a bad idea, from a law and order standpoint, but I also think it aids police corruption. My logic is that defunded police forces are strained to keep anyone no matter how corrupt due o their experience, especially with budget problems blocking proper numbers from joining, this can lead to an issue where xyz station is forced to keep xyz corrupt cop due to lack of funds for replacement police through training programs.

Where I think thee is a problem though is in police forces buying military gear in bulk, it is bad when when you are so strained on budget that hiring proper numbers is an issue but you can afford multiple mraps and a fully armed swat team but somehow not normal officers. This latter issue is a big one as well, and the prior has to do with funding but the latter has to do with spendin, meaning police stations need to be funded however they still will have the same problems if the money is not spent properly.
 
The 2A crowd should be all in on doing away with police. No tyranny!
 
It's a great idea if you want our cities to look like Mogadishu or Kabul.
 
Defunding police, I think it is a bad idea, from a law and order standpoint, but I also think it aids police corruption. My logic is that defunded police forces are strained to keep anyone no matter how corrupt due o their experience, especially with budget problems blocking proper numbers from joining, this can lead to an issue where xyz station is forced to keep xyz corrupt cop due to lack of funds for replacement police through training programs.

Where I think thee is a problem though is in police forces buying military gear in bulk, it is bad when when you are so strained on budget that hiring proper numbers is an issue but you can afford multiple mraps and a fully armed swat team but somehow not normal officers. This latter issue is a big one as well, and the prior has to do with funding but the latter has to do with spendin, meaning police stations need to be funded however they still will have the same problems if the money is not spent properly.

Why do I keep thinking of old adages like:
  • Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  • Shooting yourself in the foot.
  • Throw out the baby with the bath water.
 
Is it ever a good idea to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water? Heck no!
 
I think it can be a good concept, depending on the extent to which the police force has an extensive budget. Remember, these are folks with massive, massive budgets (budgets that may have exploded over a course of time) that are increasingly militarized and are losing the confidence of the public when it comes to serving their interests. That's how budgets in any public field become ripe for cuts. That's what happens when local citizens become dismayed by actions of the education establishment, that's what happens when a human service sector gets tagged for being internally corrupt with people's money, and there may come a time when technology support services may be targeted because they are taking an increasing percentage of a budget that does not lead directly to services to the citizen but rather becomes a proxy player.

However, it probably will not work as intended. Workers and administrators do not view themselves as unaffected or impartial implements of public policy. They view themselves, rightly or wrongly, as important stakeholders in the procurement and disbursement of public funds. Other local governments who have had to deliver budget cuts may not do so effectively, because those stakeholders in charge of administering policy will try to make the local citizenry feel the pain of the budget cuts--even if the budget cuts would render something unaffected. They then would make sure to tell the complaining citizen "why" a task will be put on the back-burner ("the city commission cut our budgets, so we have to put this on a lower priority"). Whether or not said cuts actually make that task more difficult to complete does not matter. They will try to make it known somehow. And then the pressure will be to restore the agency's budget. And like that, the valve will get turned back on.

I have personally seen a less effective version of this in another governmental sector. The state legislature made a routine habit of making effective (as in not keeping up with inflation) or meaningful cuts (the intentional act of decreasing a budget by a percentage) to the human service agency. In one case, the legislature did not want to "dictate" to agency heads throughout the state government how or where to make the cuts. They just expected a cut of X%. Well, when they gave the discretion to the agency heads, some of the agency heads didn't do an across-the-board cut to programs as was advertised. They made targeted cuts. And they targeted programs that were already bone thin. Or they just outright killed entire programs. Of course, those bone-thin programs could have already landed them in federal court for violating federal law, but I digress. In more private quarters, the agency head said that the reason why they would make these targeted cuts toward already-depleted programs was because they "wanted to send a message to the legislature that you can't keep cutting from these areas and expect us to do all of this work without the resources." Well, that wasn't true when they had more appropriate staffing levels to begin with, but okay, the agency head was telling us they were on our side. Just for the moment though, people who desperately needed services and were to be given services required by federal law were going to go without. So, that wasn't so gracious, as state employees would keep getting a check while people were dying. Anyhow, their strategy ultimately didn't work. The legislature didn't notice, because the people most hurt didn't have the means to complain incessantly to their representatives and even if they did, legislators barely have time to figure out the basics of government programs before voting on them in the legislative session anyhow.

But yeah, your government employees will try to make the public hurt for cuts given to department budgets, even if the cuts are justified or are part of measures instituted to make them more accountable to taxpayers.

It's because of this dynamic that Minneapolis has a number of city commissioners openly flirting with the idea of scrapping the police force and starting over. I don't think that's a good idea in the slightest, but you can see why the frustration is palpable.
 
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Why do I keep thinking of old adages like:
  • Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  • Shooting yourself in the foot.
  • Throw out the baby with the bath water.

Sorry, I posted and then read...GMTA...
 
Defunding police, I think it is a bad idea, from a law and order standpoint, but I also think it aids police corruption. My logic is that defunded police forces are strained to keep anyone no matter how corrupt due o their experience, especially with budget problems blocking proper numbers from joining, this can lead to an issue where xyz station is forced to keep xyz corrupt cop due to lack of funds for replacement police through training programs.

Where I think thee is a problem though is in police forces buying military gear in bulk, it is bad when when you are so strained on budget that hiring proper numbers is an issue but you can afford multiple mraps and a fully armed swat team but somehow not normal officers. This latter issue is a big one as well, and the prior has to do with funding but the latter has to do with spendin, meaning police stations need to be funded however they still will have the same problems if the money is not spent properly.

This has been slowly happening in sacramento county. It’s become a misdemeanor free for all. Auto theft, auto burglary, shop lifting, burglary, etc. If you need a report number for insurance purposes, they will issue one without investigation. The reason is the county is broke due to unsustainable pensions, and high social costs - welfare, homeless, etc. Now, thanks to the lockdown of non-protestors, sales taxes have plummeted due to retail closed, and pressure from Amazon, and restaurants closing. Sales tax is the county’s bread and butter.

Without a continued police presence down town looted stores may say the hell with it and return downtown to the rathole is was ten years ago. It was a nice experiment until the cops got the vapors and fainted.
 
The 2A crowd should be all in on doing away with police. No tyranny!

The 2A crowd is growing exponentially with calls to defund the police.
 
The 2A crowd is growing exponentially with calls to defund the police.

Nutters gonna nut.

That your opinion or you have some evidence?
 
This has been slowly happening in sacramento county. It’s become a misdemeanor free for all. Auto theft, auto burglary, shop lifting, burglary, etc. If you need a report number for insurance purposes, they will issue one without investigation. The reason is the county is broke due to unsustainable pensions, and high social costs - welfare, homeless, etc. Now, thanks to the lockdown of non-protestors, sales taxes have plummeted due to retail closed, and pressure from Amazon, and restaurants closing. Sales tax is the county’s bread and butter.

Without a continued police presence down town looted stores may say the hell with it and return downtown to the rathole is was ten years ago. It was a nice experiment until the cops got the vapors and fainted.

Much of the calls to defund police though have been liberal cities stricken with crime. The point of the thread though goes towards defunding police, specifically involving the actions right now over protests.

I feel defunding police will alow more corruption, and I believe if you have corruption within the police force, you should deal with the corrupt officers, not defund the police force as a political statement, especially since the defunded police force will be cornered even further ino using the bottom of the barrel police officers often ones no other force would hire due to their record.
 
Much of the calls to defund police though have been liberal cities stricken with crime. The point of the thread though goes towards defunding police, specifically involving the actions right now over protests.

I feel defunding police will alow more corruption, and I believe if you have corruption within the police force, you should deal with the corrupt officers, not defund the police force as a political statement, especially since the defunded police force will be cornered even further ino using the bottom of the barrel police officers often ones no other force would hire due to their record.

It get back to the root cause: people who don’t feel they should have to obey the law.
 
Defunding police, I think it is a bad idea, from a law and order standpoint, but I also think it aids police corruption. My logic is that defunded police forces are strained to keep anyone no matter how corrupt due o their experience, especially with budget problems blocking proper numbers from joining, this can lead to an issue where xyz station is forced to keep xyz corrupt cop due to lack of funds for replacement police through training programs.

Where I think thee is a problem though is in police forces buying military gear in bulk, it is bad when when you are so strained on budget that hiring proper numbers is an issue but you can afford multiple mraps and a fully armed swat team but somehow not normal officers. This latter issue is a big one as well, and the prior has to do with funding but the latter has to do with spendin, meaning police stations need to be funded however they still will have the same problems if the money is not spent properly.

We have gone a wee bit overboard with the hiring of cops for the past 30 years, IMO.
 
It's a great idea if you want our cities to look like Mogadishu or Kabul.

The police are beating peaceful protesters in the streets all across the country, so in a way, it kind of is like Mogadishu or Kabul.
 
The 2A crowd is growing exponentially with calls to defund the police.

If the government cannot do the job of protecting you, then you have to do it yourself.

This is another reason why the Second Amendment exists. To allow the individual the ability to protect themselves from those who would do them harm. Be it criminals, foreign invaders, or one's own government.

Of course, an armed populace is harder to control, so anyone who seeks greater control will do their best to disarm that populace.
 
It’s an incredibly stupid idea and one I fervently hope the Democrat party gets fully behind.
 
I see a lot of people saying that this is a bad idea but I suspect that many who say that haven't looked at the big picture.

If we simply make drug possession legal, stop arresting people for petty theft, misdemeanor assault and property crimes resulting in less than $2500 damage we won't have as many crimes for the cops to deal with and we can then afford to cut funding. We can then redirect that funding to something useful such as school programs that affirm the personhood of underprivileged children, teaching people about social injustices perpetrated against people of color, LBGTQ persons (if they identify as such) and other oppressed classes and making our cities and towns more user friendly by requiring all business to provide free public WiFi.
 
IMO it's more or less specific to an area but basically yes, defund.

Unless in an urban area (of any socio-economic level) and they are out in numbers on foot and car patrol, they dont prevent much crime...they respond after the fact.

So defund regular cops and add more detectives and investigators to respond to crimes. And EMTs also respond to crime scenes. An exception to regular cops responding after criminals have fled would be domestic abuse situations. How about adding more funding to social services and give them conflict and defensive training and send social workers? Or the specially trained ones.

For big events and traffic control...security. Private or community-funded. They're multi-use but salaries arent as high, they require alot less training.




This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 
I see a lot of people saying that this is a bad idea but I suspect that many who say that haven't looked at the big picture.

If we simply make drug possession legal, stop arresting people for petty theft, misdemeanor assault and property crimes resulting in less than $2500 damage we won't have as many crimes for the cops to deal with and we can then afford to cut funding. We can then redirect that funding to something useful such as school programs that affirm the personhood of underprivileged children, teaching people about social injustices perpetrated against people of color, LBGTQ persons (if they identify as such) and other oppressed classes and making our cities and towns more user friendly by requiring all business to provide free public WiFi.

Hmm... no reparations or BIG?
 
IMO it's more or less specific to an area but basically yes, defund.

Unless in an urban area (of any socio-economic level) and they are out in numbers on foot and car patrol, they dont prevent much crime...they respond after the fact.

So defund regular cops and add more detectives and investigators to respond to crimes. And EMTs also respond to crime scenes. An exception to regular cops responding after criminals have fled would be domestic abuse situations. How about adding more funding to social services and give them conflict and defensive training and send social workers? Or the specially trained ones.

For big events and traffic control...security. Private or community-funded. They're multi-use but salaries arent as high, they require alot less training.

We have to provide additional training, yes, but what a lot of people underestimate is that there is a distinct difference between providing and receiving the training and caring about putting it into your own practice as a bureaucrat.

Remember in the Floyd case, the most experienced officer was the one who killed that man.

It’s time to put a good-hearted cynic’s hat when looking at improving public bureaucracies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
We have to provide additional training, yes, but what a lot of people underestimate is that there is a distinct difference between providing and receiving the training and caring about putting it into your own practice as a bureaucrat.

Remember in the Floyd case, the most experienced officer was the one who killed that man.

It’s time to put a good-hearted cynic’s hat when looking at improving public bureaucracies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Who are you referring to? I only mentioned additional training for social services/social workers.



This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 
Then I misread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Hmm... no reparations or BIG?

Well sure! The government serves the people and if the people want reparations and a basic income then it's the duty of the government to provide those things. Government is kind of like god but not the religious kind (because that's offensive). One can petition their government through votes just like religious people petition their gods with prayer. Government, however, ALWAYS provides.
 
We have gone a wee bit overboard with the hiring of cops for the past 30 years, IMO.

How would you know? Have you taken a survey? Anything at all to back up your opinion?
What is a wee bit overhead?
 
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