Definition of an assault weapon

[Cardinal]

If your goal is preventing deaths, why such a fervent stance on guns? If you believe protecting lives is more important than personal freedom then why not be against things that would have a greater impact on preventing deaths? While school shootings are terrible and any death is a tragedy statistically it is insignificant compared to things like pools and car crashes. For instance, in 2016 and 2017 there were 7 deaths from school shootings for both years combined.

Because if I were to focus on deaths from pools and car crashes then I wouldn't be focusing on deaths from guns. Solving one problem by moving my attention to an entirely separate problem seems like an extremely inefficient way to solve the first problem.

As far as the death toll goes, if you want to look at hard numbers for a two year period, 2015 and 2016 saw a combined total of 20,608 deaths from firearm-related murders.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-20

 

[Nap]

Because if I were to focus on deaths from pools and car crashes then I wouldn't be focusing on deaths from guns. Solving one problem by moving my attention to an entirely separate problem seems like an extremely inefficient way to solve the first problem.

As far as the death toll goes, if you want to look at hard numbers for a two year period, 2015 and 2016 saw a combined total of 20,608 deaths from firearm-related murders.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-20

Shouldn't the focus be on more significant problems? For instance, the attention to "assault rifles" when they kill fewer people than baseball bats or even fists.

 

[Cardinal]

Shouldn't the focus be on more significant problems? For instance, the attention to "assault rifles" when they kill fewer people than baseball bats or even fists.

20,608 deaths from firearm-related murders in a two year span is a problem. If we brought down the deaths to terrorism levels, that would actually be kind of great.

From 1995-2016 there were just over 3300 deaths as a result of domestic terrorism. In that same time period there were over 210,000 deaths as the result of firearm-related murders. That's a problem. If you believe that pool and car crash related deaths are greater problems then you should make those things your agenda. I will support any headway you make in those areas.

 

[Rucker61]

20,608 deaths from firearm-related murders in a two year span is a problem.

What percentage of those were from "assault weapons" used in mass murders? What's the ten year average?

 

[Cardinal]

What percentage of those were from "assault weapons" used in mass murders? What's the ten year average?

I don't care what kind of guns were used or what the ten year averages are. I can't imagine why I should care, but rest assured, I don't.

 

[Nap]

20,608 deaths from firearm-related murders in a two year span is a problem. If we brought down the deaths to terrorism levels, that would actually be kind of great.

From 1995-2016 there were just over 3300 deaths as a result of domestic terrorism. In that same time period there were over 210,000 deaths as the result of firearm-related murders. That's a problem. If you believe that pool and car crash related deaths are greater problems then you should make those things your agenda. I will support any headway you make in those areas.

I agree it is a problem, but it is on a downward trend already. 20k out 330 million is statistically not that big of a problem.

 

[Cardinal]

I agree it is a problem, but it is on a downward trend already. 20k out 330 million is statistically not that big of a problem.

The last year for which there are numbers showed 11,004 deaths. That's not a very impressive downward trend, and I assume it's even less impressive to the families of the 210,000 people murdered from firearms since 1995. My proposed solution stands, at least until we get the deaths down to domestic terrorism levels (at least).

 

[Harshaw]

The last year for which there are numbers showed 11,004 deaths. That's not a very impressive downward trend, and I assume it's even less impressive to the families of the 210,000 people murdered from firearms since 1995. My proposed solution stands, at least until we get the deaths down to domestic terrorism levels (at least).

What exactly does "your proposed solution stands" mean?

It's not going to be implemented anywhere. It won't survive Constitutional challenge if it is, as tax infringements on Constitutional rights don't. Plenty of people have presented problems with it that you just handwaved away.

So what exactly "stands" about it?

 

[Nap]

The last year for which there are numbers showed 11,004 deaths. That's not a very impressive downward trend, and I assume it's even less impressive to the families of the 210,000 people murdered from firearms since 1995. My proposed solution stands, at least until we get the deaths down to domestic terrorism levels (at least).

11k out of 2.6 million deaths annually. I think this is what is largely forgotten about the topic. If you remove the emotional component and look at it objectively, it isn't nearly the problem people are making it out to be.

 

[Cardinal]

11k out of 2.6 million deaths annually. I think this is what is largely forgotten about the topic. If you remove the emotional component and look at it objectively, it isn't nearly the problem people are making it out to be.

Then you can tell the families that their loved ones' deaths aren't statistically meaningful. I will have to disagree, and I stand by my proposed solution.

 

[Nap]

Then you can tell the families that their loved ones' deaths aren't statistically meaningful. I will have to disagree, and I stand by my proposed solution.

You believe that 11k out of 2.6million is statistically meaningful?

 

[Cardinal]

You believe that 11k out of 2.6million is statistically meaningful?

Yes I do.

 

[PleasantValley]

Well, damn...guess Im going to have to register my rifle or turn it in...

View attachment 67228668

Very nice indeed. Thanks for the pic.

RELATED SIDE STORY: Once while visiting the Crazy Horse memorial I was talking with a lady friend about how it was infantry (Crook) that defeated the Plains Indians and not the cavalry like in the movies. She did not understand this until I showed her a display of an authentic Trapdoor Springfield with bayonet similar in size to your picture, though your pic is a muzzle loader.

I told her even empty they were still deadly with the butt and bayonet and infantry of that day practiced with both almost daily.
Add to that the volley fire techniques, and the Indians usually came out on the crappy end of the stick when infantry was involved.
That was what also saved their butt at Rosebud creek. The cavalry had already lost, but the foot soldiers where what kept it from becoming a complete route.

Whereas the cavalry was only issued 10 rounds for their handguns, could not hit much with them anyway, and usually boxed up their sabers before hitting the trail, and only had a short carbine with no lug. So without ammo all they had was their personal knife and an awkward club. The infantry still had a very deadly weapon in their hands and knew how to use it.

 

[PleasantValley]

Wait a second, that didn't happen as he told it? Sure was believable for a nanosecond.

I was hit with shrapnel from a mortar in the back and leg. Friendly fire, and it did a number on my leg. The good doctors who worked on me didn't bother removing some of the smaller pieces, they had more serious cases to move on with. Every now and then, when it's cold enough or when I'm sitting still for too long, I can feel the muscle tissues around those tiny pieces pinch up. Not painful, but annoying. I wouldn't mind wearing them on a chain around my neck.

I DO know a Gunner's mate who did just that with an old French 8mm Lebel round. he was painting over the side on an LST on the Mekong and an old woman shot at him with an old French Lebel rifle and hit him dead in the ass. They guessed the ammo's powder was not quite up to snuff and lost a lot of power when it hit him. They were able to pull it out and when i met him, he kept it in his desk, but while still in the Navy he wore it in a little glass vile around his neck for good luck. If you saw his wife you would know his luck was working just fine.

As for our bar hero, I do not know of anyone who could possibly get hit dead center in the chest with a .50 caliber round from a Ma Deuce and still be among the living....or even in one piece.

 

[Bum]

Very nice indeed. Thanks for the pic.

RELATED SIDE STORY: Once while visiting the Crazy Horse memorial I was talking with a lady friend about how it was infantry (Crook) that defeated the Plains Indians and not the cavalry like in the movies. She did not understand this until I showed her a display of an authentic Trapdoor Springfield with bayonet similar in size to your picture, though your pic is a muzzle loader.

I told her even empty they were still deadly with the butt and bayonet and infantry of that day practiced with both almost daily.
Add to that the volley fire techniques, and the Indians usually came out on the crappy end of the stick when infantry was involved.
That was what also saved their butt at Rosebud creek. The cavalry had already lost, but the foot soldiers where what kept it from becoming a complete route.

Whereas the cavalry was only issued 10 rounds for their handguns, could not hit much with them anyway, and usually boxed up their sabers before hitting the trail, and only had a short carbine with no lug. So without ammo all they had was their personal knife and an awkward club. The infantry still had a very deadly weapon in their hands and knew how to use it.

British East India Company Model F Percussion Musket.

 

[PleasantValley]

British East India Company Model F Percussion Musket.

I was almost ready to say it was a Brown Bess until i saw it was percussion.
At least i had the country right.
From the Atlanta Cutlery catalog?

 

[Bum]

I was almost ready to say it was a Brown Bess until i saw it was percussion.
At least i had the country right.
From the Atlanta Cutlery catalog?

International Military Antiques.

Actually, Many of the Brown Bess's were converted to percussion cap, and some were made as percussion fire; those were called the"India Pattern" Brown Bess.

 

[PleasantValley]

International Military Antiques.

Actually, Many of the Brown Bess's were converted to percussion cap, and some were made as percussion fire; those were called the"India Pattern" Brown Bess.

Thanks for the knowledge. I love military history and sponge up all i can.
I do not know if my bank account can thank you for showing me the website, though.
I am still trying to scrounge up about 60 rounds of reloadable .303 brass.
Then my next project is to find a 7.5mm French MAS.

 

[CLAX1911]

The so called assault weapons that were banned during the Clinton administration, a ban which expired during the Bush administration and has not since been renewed, are simply guns with certain cosmetic features. For instance, a semi automatic rifle that has features such as a pistol grip and an adjustable stock. Now, a semi auto rifle that had just a pistol grip was fine. A semi auto rifle that had just an adjustable stock was fine. But, if the semi auto rifle has both a pistol grip and an adjustable stock all of a sudden it becomes an assault weapon and is subject to the ban. So for anybody who is in favor of banning so called assault weapons, why would you want to ban a gun simply because it has both a pistol grip and an adjustable stock?

The one that got me was what qualified a pistol as an assault weapon. For some reason it was having a magazine that doesn't go into the grip not sure how that makes it done more deadly but that was one of them. Another criteria was having a heat shield around the barrel

Basically put the only pistol that I'm aware of that it made into an assault weapon was a tech nine and those suck.

 

[PleasantValley]

The one that got me was what qualified a pistol as an assault weapon. For some reason it was having a magazine that doesn't go into the grip not sure how that makes it done more deadly but that was one of them. Another criteria was having a heat shield around the barrel

Basically put the only pistol that I'm aware of that it made into an assault weapon was a tech nine and those suck.

Not when Lana is holding one.

 

[CLAX1911]

Well, one thing you'd have to admit: if somebody got shot with a full clip of $200 bullets in an automatic rifle, you'd have to agree that the dude might have had it coming. In an AR-15 that's...what...$4520 worth of bullets?

Not if you just reloads them.

 

[CLAX1911]

So 31 bullets in a clip at $200 a bullet? On second thought, that's really not as cost prohibitive as I would have hoped. If I really wanted to take out a dude and meant business, $6200 wouldn't slow me down for an instant. I think if you really wanted to make sure that the target had it coming, $50,000 for a clip would slow down everybody but Bruce Wayne. Therefore each bullet should cost $1600. In fact, you could probably bet on the shooter going up to his victim and asking for the bullets back.

What's a clip? I know those are used in revolvers but not AR-15s

 

[CLAX1911]

Not when Lana is holding one.

View attachment 67228744

I stand corrected the cartoon version is a good one.

 

[PleasantValley]

What's a clip? I know those are used in revolvers but not AR-15s

At first i thought this was sarcasm, but then remembered a S&W revolver that used half moon "clips".
I had to stop and think on that one. You almost had me.

touche'

 

[CLAX1911]

At first i thought this was sarcasm, but then remembered a S&W revolver that used half moon "clips".
I had to stop and think on that one. You almost had me.

touche'

It just surprises me how incredibly stupid some people are about things they don't even bother to learn simple terminology. And they want to be taken seriously when they talk about assault weapons.