Defense seeks case dismissal for officer who kneeled on George Floyd

[Luce]

Yup, he was now only being lightly restrained to keep him from rolling or trying to stand up, as is standard procedure for someone who has resisted.

You act like nobody saw the video of Derek Chauvin kneeling on his neck.

 

[Lursa]

Most criminals are indeed rather desperate, hence the proclivity to lie as well and fake medical issues. The officers job is detain a resisting suspect who is suspected of committing a federal crime.

I don't think you understand the process of a trial and how it works, all of this onus is on the prosecution to prove he *murdered* Floyd when all the hard evidence suggests otherwise. Good luck with convicted a cop over a felon based on your feels.

He didnt fake anything and there's no way to prove that. All the video and witnesses say otherwise.

He DIED that day due to their actions. If they hadnt caused him all that unnecessary strain and stress after he visibly (to all) stopped resisting, he'd have lived.

And there is NO hard evidence that any pre-existing condition killed Floyd. There is hard evidence that their actions killed him that day, period. If they hadnt treated him in that manner, he would not have died that day. There is no way his defense will convince a jury otherwise. They only have to have a 'reasonable' belief...and anyone with a brain that saw that video, esp. those right there watching and videoing and screaming for Floyd's life...can see that.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[bave]

He didnt fake anything and there's no way to prove that. All the video and witnesses say otherwise.

Neat, now prove the cops know that. Again, who has the burden of proof?

He DIED that day due to their actions. If they hadnt caused him all that unnecessary strain and stress after he visibly (to all) stopped resisting, he'd have lived.

You mean the stress of him being arrested for committing a federal crime? Holy ****, that's some amazing thinking you have there. It is the cops fault for subjecting him to the anguish of being arrested for him committing a crime. Imagine the world if cops stopped arresting people at the slightest bit of "stress or strain" on the criminal suspects. That's hilarious.

Here's a tip from my man Jim:

stop breaking the law asshole - YouTube

That should help alleviate all the strain.

And there is NO hard evidence that any pre-existing condition killed Floyd. There is hard evidence that their actions killed him that day, period. If they hadnt treated him in that manner, he would not have died that day. There is no way his defense will convince a jury otherwise. They only have to have a 'reasonable' belief...and anyone with a brain that saw that video, esp. those right there watching and videoing and screaming for Floyd's life...can see that.

Again, the prosecution has to prove that the cops actions killed him. The OME report clearly states that there was no sign of asphyxiation or strangulation. It also states that he had several medical conditions which were the primary factors in his expiration. What exactly is your "hard evidence"? That he died in custody? You keep wanting to feel your way to a conviction when all the science is pointing in the other direction. You realize how insane it is to believe that a 155lb cop with a single knee across a 6-4, 230lb man's shoulders is what killed him? A man Floyd's size could carry Chauvin around on his back without a real struggle, if you didn't have a heart full of amphetamine, fentanyl, and calcium at the time.

 

[Luce]

Neat, now prove the cops know that. Again, who has the burden of proof?



You mean the stress of him being arrested for committing a federal crime? Holy ****, that's some amazing thinking you have there. It is the cops fault for subjecting him to the anguish of being arrested for him committing a crime. Imagine the world if cops stopped arresting people at the slightest bit of "stress or strain" on the criminal suspects. That's hilarious.

Here's a tip from my man Jim:

stop breaking the law asshole - YouTube

That should help alleviate all the strain.



Again, the prosecution has to prove that the cops actions killed him. The OME report clearly states that there was no sign of asphyxiation or strangulation. It also states that he had several medical conditions which were the primary factors in his expiration. What exactly is your "hard evidence"? That he died in custody? You keep wanting to feel your way to a conviction when all the science is pointing in the other direction. You realize how insane it is to believe that a 155lb cop with a single knee across a 6-4, 230lb man's shoulders is what killed him? A man Floyd's size could carry Chauvin around on his back without a real struggle, if you didn't have a heart full of amphetamine, fentanyl, and calcium at the time.

A youtube link. :lol:

 

[Lursa]

Neat, now prove the cops know that. Again, who has the burden of proof?

Again...the video and the witnesses will provide that.

You mean the stress of him being arrested for committing a federal crime? Holy ****, that's some amazing thinking you have there. It is the cops fault for subjecting him to the anguish of being arrested for him committing a crime. Imagine the world if cops stopped arresting people at the slightest bit of "stress or strain" on the criminal suspects. That's hilarious.

Has absolutely nothing to do with what the jury will consider. That's all personal judgement of the individual. It has nothing to do with his actions that day or the cops'. I'm seeing you're the one that doesnt know how the justice system works.

Here's a tip from my man Jim:

stop breaking the law asshole - YouTube

That should help alleviate all the strain.

Rarely watch videos. Please articulate his point as you understand it.

Again, the prosecution has to prove that the cops actions killed him. The OME report clearly states that there was no sign of asphyxiation or strangulation. It also states that he had several medical conditions which were the primary factors in his expiration. What exactly is your "hard evidence"? That he died in custody? You keep wanting to feel your way to a conviction when all the science is pointing in the other direction. You realize how insane it is to believe that a 155lb cop with a single knee across a 6-4, 230lb man's shoulders is what killed him? A man Floyd's size could carry Chauvin around on his back without a real struggle, if you didn't have a heart full of amphetamine, fentanyl, and calcium at the time.

That is not even in doubt :doh Yes...the hard evidence is that he died in their custody at their hands due to their actions at that time. Absolutely. He would not have died that at that time except for their actions. They killed him, right then. How can that possibly be disputed?

You have no hard evidence that shows drugs or anything else killed him. The report says a heart attack...easily caused by the actions of the cops seen in the video. THAT'S hard evidence. There's no 'science' that says the drugs caused a heart attack. Or would have killed him that day. He was walking around fine before the cops caught him. That's 'hard evidence.' You are producing numbers...the jury will actually see the positioning and the struggle to breathe. Will hear his pleas and gasps.

If he hadnt kneeled on him long past his resistance, his heart wouldnt have stopped then...full of whatever or not. That is a fact the jury will clearly understand.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[bave]

Again...

Not going to keep arguing with you. The facts are the facts and will revisit this when Officer Chauvin walks out of the courtroom. Meanwhile, you keep crying for your career criminal drug addict.

 

[Jack Hays]

That is not even in doubt :doh Yes...the hard evidence is that he died in their custody at their hands due to their actions at that time. Absolutely. He would not have died that at that time except for their actions. They killed him, right then. How can that possibly be disputed?

Medical examiner said that had Floyd died alone the ME would not have hesitated to assign drug overdose as the cause of death.

 

[Lursa]

Not going to keep arguing with you. The facts are the facts and will revisit this when Officer Chauvin walks out of the courtroom. Meanwhile, you keep crying for your career criminal drug addict.

Yes, the facts are the facts and you are so blind that you believe people, like myself, 'prefer' criminals. We dont. We 'prefer' cops that dont act like depraved animals who think they are above the law. Being a drug addict doesnt give cops a license to kill you. Neither does resisting, then stopping and complying. If cops were allowed to kill anyone that resisted, they wouldnt bother restraining them...they'd just shoot them outright :doh

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Lursa]

Medical examiner said that had Floyd died alone the ME would not have hesitated to assign drug overdose as the cause of death.

And his speculation is meaningless when we could clearly see a living man...NOT dead of a drug overdose...being excessively restrained...and THEN dying at their hands. :roll: So...which is there more, and more direct, evidence to support? :roll:

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

And his speculation is meaningless when we could clearly see a living man...NOT dead of a drug overdose...being excessively restrained...and THEN dying at their hands. :roll: So...which is there more, and more direct, evidence to support? :roll:

The ME's point was that "I can't breathe" could have just as easily referred to Floyd's lungs filling with fluid (from the overdose) as from the cop's knee.

 

[Lursa]

The ME's point was that "I can't breathe" could have just as easily referred to Floyd's lungs filling with fluid (from the overdose) as from the cop's knee.

So? We saw the knee. We saw the result. There's 'no evidence' that his lungs would have filled with fluid enough to kill him that day otherwise. Those cops actions directly caused his death "then"...that's pretty evident.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

So? We saw the knee. We saw the result. There's 'no evidence' that his lungs would have filled with fluid enough to kill him that day otherwise. Those cops actions directly caused his death "then"...that's pretty evident.

Actually, you don't know that because it's impossible to know how much pressure was being applied. Indeed, if I were the defense attorney I'd use that image as evidence of innocence: the cop left his knee in place because he knew he wasn't applying significant pressure.

 

[pamak]

The medical examiner apparently disagrees with you.

You mean the one who works witht he police.... the other meical examiner disagreed.

George Floyd independent autopsy and Minnesota officials say death was homicide - CNN

The independent autopsy says Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by Minneapolis police officers during his arrest last week.

 

[pamak]

Actually, you don't know that because it's impossible to know how much pressure was being applied. Indeed, if I were the defense attorney I'd use that image as evidence of innocence: the cop left his knee in place because he knew he wasn't applying significant pressure.

The independent autopsy disagrees with you

 

[pamak]

The ME's point was that "I can't breathe" could have just as easily referred to Floyd's lungs filling with fluid (from the overdose) as from the cop's knee.

Even worse... I do not know about you but if a person hears a drug addict saying "I can't breathe" and responds by putting a knee on the person's neck, there will be legal consequences.

This whole rhetoric shows why the police violence is not just an issue of some "bad apples" It is an issue of having people defending the presence of those bad apples in the basket and letting the rotting spread. One of the major reforms is to stop the silly practice of having medical examiners who usually work with the police departments make judgments (and autopsies involves a level of personal judgment) in homicides involving police officers. If the defense wants to bring such experts, then it must be clear that it is a defense witness and not some type of a supposedly unbiassed independent professional.

 

[Jack Hays]

You mean the one who works witht he police.... the other meical examiner disagreed.

George Floyd independent autopsy and Minnesota officials say death was homicide - CNN

The independent autopsy says Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by Minneapolis police officers during his arrest last week.

The jury will decide whether they believe the one who works for the government or the one who works for the family.

 

[Jack Hays]

The independent autopsy disagrees with you

Even worse... I do not know about you but if a person hears a drug addict saying "I can't breathe" and responds by putting a knee on the person's neck, there will be legal consequences.

This whole rhetoric shows why the police violence is not just an issue of some "bad apples" It is an issue of having people letting defending the presence of those bad apples in the basket and letting the rotting spread.

For the jury to decide.

 

[pamak]

The jury will decide whether they believe the one who works for the government or the one who works for the family.

This does not change the fact that you failed to provide the part of the evidence that incriminates the police officer.

And the issue of police reform is OURS to decide!

 

[Lursa]

Actually, you don't know that because it's impossible to know how much pressure was being applied. Indeed, if I were the defense attorney I'd use that image as evidence of innocence: the cop left his knee in place because he knew he wasn't applying significant pressure.

I didnt say a thing about pressure. The reaction of Floyd, his words, his gasps, the witnesses...they will all weigh in. So yeah....it will be impossible to know how much pressure...the jury will decide on what they see.

Oh, and the result of that knee...Floyd died, right there.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Lursa]

You mean the one who works witht he police.... the other meical examiner disagreed.

George Floyd independent autopsy and Minnesota officials say death was homicide - CNN

The independent autopsy says Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by Minneapolis police officers during his arrest last week.

In any case, it will be easy for the jury to accept this one based on what they see in the video...the desperation from Floyd, his words, his gasping, etc. And then hearing it described by the witnesses. It will be easy for them to imagine themselves being attacked that way. Not that easy for them to imagine being drug-abusing criminals. We hope :mrgreen:

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

This does not change the fact that you failed to provide the part of the evidence that incriminates the police officer.

And the issue of police reform is OURS to decide!

Whether there is evidence to incriminate the officer is for the jury to decide. I think the defense has a good chance to achieve the "reasonable doubt" standard. I doubt there will be much police reform.

 

[Jack Hays]

I didnt say a thing about pressure. The reaction of Floyd, his words, his gasps, the witnesses...they will all weigh in. So yeah....it will be impossible to know how much pressure...the jury will decide on what they see.

Oh, and the result of that knee...Floyd died, right there.

The difficulty will be to prove he died because of the knee. I think the defense's path to reasonable doubt is wide open.

 

[Lursa]

The difficulty will be to prove he died because of the knee. I think the defense's path to reasonable doubt is wide open.

No difficulty. He was fine when they grabbed him (cannot show otherwise) and died at their hands. Stress, pressure, fear, panic, all can cause heart attacks. What does everyone (that's a normal human) see in that video? Those things from/on Floyd.

He would have continued walking down the street if they had not grabbed him and used excessive force. There's almost zero reasonable doubt about that. :mrgreen:

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[pamak]

Whether there is evidence to incriminate the officer is for the jury to decide. I think the defense has a good chance to achieve the "reasonable doubt" standard. I doubt there will be much police reform.

You still have to provide the whole picture of evidence if you are really interestd in a meaningful conversation. .

Also, regardless of what the jury decides, public perception STILL matters because as I expained police reform is OUR decision and not of the jury's.

 

[pamak]

Whether there is evidence to incriminate the officer is for the jury to decide. I think the defense has a good chance to achieve the "reasonable doubt" standard. I doubt there will be much police reform.

You still have to provide the whole picture of evidence. Also, regardless of what the jury decides, public perception STILL matters because as I expained police reform is OUR decision and not of the jury.