Defense seeks case dismissal for officer who kneeled on George Floyd

[Jack Hays]

Yes, I was just adding to your obvious comment...that you're here responding on a discussion forum while you wait.

Only to point out that the outcome is uncertain.

 

[Lursa]

Only to point out that the outcome is uncertain.

Yes, we covered your acquiescence to the obvious already. The 'uncertainties' are what we were debating.

And you said you're done...so?

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

Yes, we covered your acquiescence to the obvious already. The 'uncertainties' are what we were debating.

And you said you're done...so?

As you wish.

 

[Lursa]

As you wish.

Sure, thanks!

Let us know if you have any other "uncertainties" to discuss.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

Sure, thanks!

Let us know if you have any other "uncertainties" to discuss.

The trial will take care of that.

 

[Lursa]

The trial will take care of that.

Of course. And the non-committal will be able to scuttle back and find where they attempted to promote an agenda...'non-commitally'...:lol:

That way they can never be wrong. If Chauvin doesnt get jail time, I'll admit I'm wrong.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

Of course. And the non-committal will be able to scuttle back and find where they attempted to promote an agenda...'non-commitally'...:lol:

That way they can never be wrong. If Chauvin doesnt get jail time, I'll admit I'm wrong.

Meanwhile, you are free to continue to make a fool of yourself.

 

[Lursa]

Meanwhile, you are free to continue to make a fool of yourself.

Oh...I'm sorry...where did I do that? Which of my comments on the GF event are so ridiculous? Please point them out.

Tsk tsk, and I thought you'd finally try and retire with some dignity. Oh well.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Jack Hays]

Oh...I'm sorry...where did I do that? Which of my comments on the GF event are so ridiculous? Please point them out.

Tsk tsk, and I thought you'd finally try and retire with some dignity. Oh well.

Your thorough certainty marks you as a fool. Goodbye.

 

[Lursa]

Your thorough certainty marks you as a fool. Goodbye.

Oh, not certain. I was trying to accumulate the circumstances I thought would lead a 'reasonable man' defense. But that's still not certain.

But hey, see ya!

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[justabubba]

Of course. And the non-committal will be able to scuttle back and find where they attempted to promote an agenda...'non-commitally'...:lol:

That way they can never be wrong. If Chauvin doesnt get jail time, I'll admit I'm wrong.

i'll look forward to reading that post

 

[Lursa]

i'll look forward to reading that post

No worries. Why would I deny it? I'll want to see their justification and I may not agree but it wont be up to me.

But my self-worth isnt wrapped up in being 'right' on the Internetz.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[justabubba]

No worries. Why would I deny it? I'll want to see their justification and I may not agree but it wont be up to me.

But my self-worth isnt wrapped up in being 'right' on the Internetz.

and that's a good thing. i suspect that perspective will frequently come in handy

 

[Lursa]

and that's a good thing. i suspect that perspective will frequently come in handy

Yeah...there's definitely something wrong with those who's self-esteem is wrapped up in Internetz approval.

Many here will be in for a surprise after the trial... and we'll see how they handle it.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[justabubba]

Yeah...there's definitely something wrong with those who's self-esteem is wrapped up in Internetz approval.

Many here will be in for a surprise after the trial... and we'll see how they handle it.

i hear you
it was difficult not to gloat when the court validated my argument in the zimmerman matter

 

[Lursa]

i hear you
it was difficult not to gloat when the court validated my argument in the zimmerman matter

As much as I didnt respect him or most of his actions, I agreed his self-defense claim was valid.

One has to know the law and reality.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[bave]

His odds for acquittal are 50/50 in my view.

90-10.

 

[gino]

90-10.

No, they won't acquit him. He'll get something. Maybe some type of custodial negligence that ends up as manslaughter is my best guess. It depends on how early they called the paramedics. If they called the paramedics early when he stopped struggling and had to wait for them to arrive, and let them at him as soon as they arrived, it might get him off.

I'm assuming that the other cops will get off with some type of slap on the wrist.

 

[dcsports]

No, they won't acquit him. He'll get something. Maybe some type of custodial negligence that ends up as manslaughter is my best guess. It depends on how early they called the paramedics. If they called the paramedics early when he stopped struggling and had to wait for them to arrive, and let them at him as soon as they arrived, it might get him off.

I'm assuming that the other cops will get off with some type of slap on the wrist.

And that would be far more appropriate. That was my key concern from the start - he wasn't struggling, and was asking for help. Yes, he was breathing, because he was talking, but the sensation that you can't breath is a classic sign of cardiac distress. The officers should have backed off, sat him on the curb, and called for help.

I think they'll also run into issues with the mechanism of death - if the issue was mechanical asphyxiation, it's more likely to have been caused by Keung (second officer) kneeling on the man's back. This is very dangerous, as the person has to fight to breath. Chauvin is still responsible as the officer in charge (Keung was a rookie), but it's unlikely he was the direct cause.

It will be interesting to see if the DA and court allow lesser charges to be considered. As it stands, it's an overcharge, and unlikely to get a conviction.

 

[Jack Hays]

No, they won't acquit him. He'll get something. Maybe some type of custodial negligence that ends up as manslaughter is my best guess. It depends on how early they called the paramedics. If they called the paramedics early when he stopped struggling and had to wait for them to arrive, and let them at him as soon as they arrived, it might get him off.

I'm assuming that the other cops will get off with some type of slap on the wrist.

And that would be far more appropriate. That was my key concern from the start - he wasn't struggling, and was asking for help. Yes, he was breathing, because he was talking, but the sensation that you can't breath is a classic sign of cardiac distress. The officers should have backed off, sat him on the curb, and called for help.

I think they'll also run into issues with the mechanism of death - if the issue was mechanical asphyxiation, it's more likely to have been caused by Keung (second officer) kneeling on the man's back. This is very dangerous, as the person has to fight to breath. Chauvin is still responsible as the officer in charge (Keung was a rookie), but it's unlikely he was the direct cause.

It will be interesting to see if the DA and court allow lesser charges to be considered. As it stands, it's an overcharge, and unlikely to get a conviction.

I am not a lawyer, so please have your grain of salt handy, but I've been told that if the main charge drops to manslaughter then ancillary charges against other officers evaporate.

 

[gino]

As it stands, it's an overcharge, and unlikely to get a conviction.

It will be interesting to see if the DA is honest enough to reduce the charges before it goes to trial. I'm sorry that the DA is so politically motivated that he/she is playing to the crowd and not doing their job...

 

[dcsports]

I am not a lawyer, so please have your grain of salt handy, but I've been told that if the main charge drops to manslaughter then ancillary charges against other officers evaporate.

That makes sense. I think they are going to have a problem with these no matter what, especially with the rookies. The other officer who could be negligent is the other senior officer on the scene, but even he could (will) make the case that he was focused on crowd control.

I would not be surprised to see the defendants ask for separate trials, with Chauvin going first.

 

[bave]

And that would be far more appropriate. That was my key concern from the start - he wasn't struggling, and was asking for help. Yes, he was breathing, because he was talking, but the sensation that you can't breath is a classic sign of cardiac distress. The officers should have backed off, sat him on the curb, and called for help.

I think they'll also run into issues with the mechanism of death - if the issue was mechanical asphyxiation, it's more likely to have been caused by Keung (second officer) kneeling on the man's back. This is very dangerous, as the person has to fight to breath. Chauvin is still responsible as the officer in charge (Keung was a rookie), but it's unlikely he was the direct cause.

It will be interesting to see if the DA and court allow lesser charges to be considered. As it stands, it's an overcharge, and unlikely to get a conviction.

Not a chance.

Manslaughter requires causation. Never going to get that. You will *never* be able to prove that the officers did anything incorrectly that caused Floyd's death. The fatal cardiac event, which was caused by his poor underlying health and drug use was triggered by his decision to resist. Defense rests, have a nice day, it's over. Moreover, medical assistance was requested in a reasonable period and even then his condition was so bad it would have largely never made a difference if this happened in an ER.

 

[dcsports]

It will be interesting to see if the DA is honest enough to reduce the charges before it goes to trial. I'm sorry that the DA is so politically motivated that he/she is playing to the crowd and not doing their job...

It could be a big issue. I'm sure he hoped this would all fade away when the other officers were charged, and he could quietly reduce the charges on a holiday weekend.