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Deepening feud between NRA and doctors

ataraxia

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After doctors' associations put out a statement warning of the public health dangers of a gun culture based on growing research, and pushing for the need for funding for more research, and the resultant devastation they are seeing daily in their emergency rooms and operating rooms, the NRA tweeted "Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane," as if public health is not in their purview. Their findings, after all, were interfering with propaganda and marketing efforts that "guns keep you safe".

Doctors have now pushed back in turn in turn.

"Physicians have been responding to the NRA on Twitter with medical research on gun violence.

"Reasonable gun control results in saving lives," wrote Mary Brandt, MD, a pediatric surgeon at Houston-based Texas Children's Hospital and professor of surgery, pediatrics and medical ethics at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. Dr. Brandt shared study abstracts that found stricter gun control laws result in fewer injuries and deaths.

Esther Choo, MD, an emergency physician and associate professor at the Oregon Health & Science University in Portland, wrote, "We are not anti-gun: we are anti-bullet holes in our patients."

The Annals of Internal Medicine, the journal for the college of physicians, tweeted a link to journal articles about firearm safety: "The NRA tells doctors to 'stay in their lane' re #GunViolence. We wish we could. Instead, we pledge to talk to our patients about gun violence whenever risk factors are present."

Tomas Diaz, MD, an emergency physician at the University of California, San Francisco, wrote, "Gun violence is very much our lane. And advocating for those who have lost their lives and loved ones is our duty."

The CDC on Nov. 5 published data indicating gun deaths rose in 2015-16 after a few years in which gun-related deaths dropped. The report links the increase to suicides and violent crime."
Physicians respond after NRA tells 'self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane'

The right, of course, was never that interested in findings or research. Facts have no bearing in forming their worldview. They have dismissed a unanimous consensus and formal statements from every single scientific organization on the planet about the dangers of global warming, choosing instead to support a real estate guy from Manhattan who has dismissed it all as a "Chinese hoax". They still pass tax plans on the premise of trickle down economics. Many of them even still insist the Earth is only 6000 years old. So even if there is further research and more facts and observations become available, don't expect it to impress any of them if it doesn't support their already-existing notions.

But still, we need to learn more facts. The research bans and gag orders pushed by the NRA in congress must be repealed. We need to start caring about facts again.
 

ttwtt78640

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A gun that does not inflict a fatal or incapacitating wound is basically useless. Certainly if speed limits were reduced to 5 to 10mph there would be far fewer traffic deaths and serious injuries - the problem, of course, is that defeats the purpose of using a modern motor vehicle.
 

MrPeanut

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I hope that the house will be able to force republicans to come up with a counter plan. Democrats waste too much time defending their own positions while republicans get away with not having any plan to solve these problems. If republicans want the NRA to dictate gun policy then force them to say it.
 

Harshaw

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After doctors' associations put out a statement warning of the public health dangers of a gun culture based on growing research, and pushing for the need for funding for more research, and the resultant devastation they are seeing daily in their emergency rooms and operating rooms, the NRA tweeted "Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane," as if public health is not in their purview. Their findings, after all, were interfering with propaganda and marketing efforts that "guns keep you safe".

Doctors have now pushed back in turn in turn.



The right, of course, was never that interested in findings or research. Facts have no bearing in forming their worldview. They have dismissed a unanimous consensus and formal statements from every single scientific organization on the planet about the dangers of global warming, choosing instead to support a real estate guy from Manhattan who has dismissed it all as a "Chinese hoax". They still pass tax plans on the premise of trickle down economics. Many of them even still insist the Earth is only 6000 years old. So even if there is further research and more facts and observations become available, don't expect it to impress any of them if it doesn't support their already-existing notions.

But still, we need to learn more facts. The research bans and gag orders pushed by the NRA in congress must be repealed. We need to start caring about facts again.

What "research bans" and "gag orders"?

Speaking of hoaxes and myths, are you persisting the myth that the CDC is "banned" from doing "research" on guns?
 

ataraxia

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A gun that does not inflict a fatal or incapacitating wound is basically useless. Certainly if speed limits were reduced to 5 to 10mph there would be far fewer traffic deaths and serious injuries - the problem, of course, is that defeats the purpose of using a modern motor vehicle.

A handgun is more than enough to defend yourself and inflict fatal wounds. You don’t need to have military style weapons free for any mentally ill person or felon.
 
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ataraxia

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Harshaw

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You must have missed this:
How The NRA Worked To Stifle Gun Violence Research : NPR
https://slate.com/technology/2013/0...ian-gag-rules-and-the-cdc-aca-and-states.html

This is all eerily reminiscent of the tobacco industry trying to stifle the research linking their product to cancer.

Oh, well, NPR just flat-out lies about the Dickey Amendment, which is no less disappointing for being unsurprising.

Here's the only part of the Dickey Amendment which even touches the CDC and guns:

: Provided further,
That none of the funds made available for injury prevention and
control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may
be used to advocate or promote gun control:

Doesn't say a word about research, not a single little bit, only advocacy. It doesn't limit any gun research funding at all. NPR implies that general funding cuts to the CDC are somehow targeted against gun research. That's false.

The CDC did a landmark study on gun violence at Obama's direction in 2013. I suspect you haven't heard much about it, because it didn't quite find what the NPRs of the world were hoping it would. Interesting that NPR didn't even mention it, but did mention the 1993 study which was more in line with what NPR wanted.

As for the "spending bill" which would somehow allow the CDC to do something it was never prevented from doing, the bill passed and was signed into law. So, if the NRA opposed it -- and the story doesn't actually establish that they did -- then nothing needs to be "repealed."

As for your evidence of "gag orders," it's apparently about the FL law which prevents doctors from asking children (or their parents) about guns in their homes when it has nothing to do with the matter the doctor is seeing the child for. In other words, it's not the doctor's business. The punishment for it seems harsh and the standards vague, but those are problems with execution, not concept. Under the law, no one is "gagged" from publicly saying anything they're otherwise permitted to say, which is what a "gag order" actually is.
 

apdst

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A handgun is more than enough to defend yourself and inflict fatal wounds. You don’t need to have military style weapons free for any mentally ill person or felon.

Unless the bad guy has a semi-automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine. Then, you're outgunned. So yes, we need those weapons, to even the odds.
 

apdst

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ataraxia

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Unless the bad guy has a semi-automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine. Then, you're outgunned. So yes, we need those weapons, to even the odds.

There is no end to how far we can go with an arms race with the criminals. A line needs to be drawn somewhere.
 

ataraxia

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Tesearch indicates that hundreds-of-thousands of lives are saved annually, because of private gun ownership.


Nope. No such research. If you are talking about the number of times guns are use defensively, I can point you towards zones where they are used many times defensively every minute. It does not mean that a war zone is a safe place.
 

RaleBulgarian

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Unless the bad guy has a semi-automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine. Then, you're outgunned. So yes, we need those weapons, to even the odds.
Poor argument. A 9mm will kill the same as an semi-auto rifle. Dead is dead.

The NRA is in the wrong, period.
 

Chillfolks

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A handgun is more than enough to defend yourself and inflict fatal wounds. You don’t need to have military style weapons free for any mentally ill person or felon.

Thankfully intelligent people understand that a right is not based on the ability to show ones NEED to exercise it.
 

apdst

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There is no end to how far we can go with an arms race with the criminals. A line needs to be drawn somewhere.

That's why we shouldn't be outlawing guns.

Put more criminals in jail. Utilize the death penalty more.
 

apdst

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Moon

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A handgun is more than enough to defend yourself and inflict fatal wounds. You don’t need to have military style weapons free for any mentally ill person or felon.
What is a "military style weapon"?
 

SCrider

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Unless the bad guy has a semi-automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine. Then, you're outgunned. So yes, we need those weapons, to even the odds.

What if the bad guy has a bazooka?:lamo
 

SCrider

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That's why we shouldn't be outlawing guns.

Put more criminals in jail. Utilize the death penalty more.

We already incarcerate more people per capita than any other western country, that plan is not working out so well.
 

Hari Seldon

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We already incarcerate more people per capita than any other western country, that plan is not working out so well.

It is if you have investments in private jailing. Follow the money.
 

apdst

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What if the bad guy has a bazooka?:lamo

I still have more firepower. A bazooka is a single shot, crew served weapon.

If they miss with the first rounds, they're ****ed.
 

apdst

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We already incarcerate more people per capita than any other western country, that plan is not working out so well.

Locking up murderers doesn't do any good?
 

SCrider

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I still have more firepower. A bazooka is a single shot, crew served weapon.

If they miss with the first rounds, they're ****ed.

You go Rambo:lamo
 

ataraxia

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Thankfully intelligent people understand that a right is not based on the ability to show ones NEED to exercise it.

Thankfully even Antonin Scalia knew that 2nd amendment rights, like any right, are not unlimited.
 
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