Death toll rises in South Africa as violence and pogroms, looting spreads

[Litwin]

Yes. Unfortunately, that is so despite the huge amount of taxes it receives from the SA mining companies and other white owned companies.

Despite introducing racist legislation that discriminates whites, Indian and coloured people in favour of black people.

Marxists , pro - Moscow crew don't care....

 

[Infinite Chaos]

African history is full of instances where chiefs would listen to their people before making decisions. They didn't vote but the people did often have a say.

It's quite pathetic how you feel Africans are a victim. Even when it comes to democracy. A system they have chosen.

What nonsense to say that democracy was "implanted" in African culture. There was no democracy for blacks under colonialism or apartheid.

They fought to have democratic rights....."one man, one vote?.

You have no idea, All you want to do is blame whites for the poor behaviour and criminality of black people.

Stop making lies up. "Democracy" was not a tradition in African history until recently. Egalitarianism existed in some societies but it was not democracy as we know it.

Besides, colonialism decimated a whole range of norms and the idea of democracy is an implanted ideal.

Wow!

Have you seen the videos?

Things ARE going badly.

Again, do you see one single white in those videos looting and pillaging?

Just stop lying, I know you can do better than this: which post have I said whites are looting and pillaging in modern South Africa?

I haven't said that. Why make things up? You keep inventing your own nonsense.

It depends what period you are talking about.

There are Bantu living in Cape Town today. The SA Parliament is there.

But when whites arrived at the Cape in 1652 there were none. That's why they imported their own servants...mostly indentured Malay people from Dutch colonised Batavia (Indonesia). The Bantu didn't attempt to cross the Kalahari desert to reach Cape Town. They preferred to live further north.

Do some reading up before posting utter nonsense.

You are fixated on the Bantu. I asked you about the KhoeKhoe peoples. The nomads, you can pretend didn't own any land but the pastoralists had land, cattle and property in the whole area including the cape. Your whole strategy has been based around nixing the idea of Bantu anywhere near South Africa before the colonialists arrived and pretending the KhoeKhoe don't exist.

Despite introducing racist legislation that discriminates whites, Indian and coloured people in favour of black people.

Well, rebalancing the economy after 400 years of white privilege / African disenfranchisement is going to hurt somewhere along the line. The whites did nothing to lift up the African peoples of South Africa and then when they did bring through some changes in the 1980's, P.W.Botha tried a "divide and rule" approach by dividing the population into ethnic groups and by treating each group differently. Next, he set up a caste-like hierarchy of privilege according to skin colour, with whites, Indians, Coloureds and blacks in descending ranking.

Finally, South Africa tried the Tricameral Parliament.

Sweeping away this rubbish was always going to cause people like you to complain about inherent priviledge being swept away. You say you lived in South Africa.. all your posts reek of complaining that things changed. You basically want your life of absolute priviledge back based on the dehumanisation of a whole race of peoples. You can live with it because it suited you, you enjoyed the privilege naturally given you by your skin colour.

South Africa didn't lose any war.

Whites voted in a referendum to introduce democracy after being under both local and overseas pressure to introduce democracy.

South Africa had by far the biggest military in Africa and was never under threat.

~

Yet the "biggest military in Africa" ended up conceding Namibia and Angola from its puppet rulers.

Otherwise, please exlain why the tripartite agreement came about or does your continued alternate history of Southern Africa mean this never happened?

 

[TheParser]

Regarding China, I am thankful that the UK, and now Australia, are helping people from Hong Kong to there. The persecution by China of those in favour of democracy in Hong Kong is shocking...and needs more publicity.

That's great news!

I hope that England can find some way to get Mr. Jimmy Lai, publisher of the now defunct Apple Daily and now a prisoner of the Reds, out of Hong Kong, too.

(I hear some Americans are also thinking of emigrating to Australia, but I digress,)

 

[Fledermaus]

Marxists , pro - Moscow crew don't care....

Face it. This is another thread opened simply to wine about RUSSIA.

 

[Litwin]

South Africa looting: Clean-up to mark Nelson Mandela Day

People were urged to honour the anti-apartheid hero's legacy by rebuilding after riots left 212 dead.

www.bbc.com

 

[Tigerace117]

Except that the Russian word pogrom meaning "to destroy, to wreak havoc, to demolish violently".

Which is exactly what blacks are doing in South Africa right now.

Gee, after several hundred years of whites doing it, first in the name of colonial glory and then apartheid while people like you waved their pom-poms and cheered, your posturing is rather meaningless.

 

[Tigerace117]

South Africa didn't lose any war.

Whites voted in a referendum to introduce democracy after being under both local and overseas pressure to introduce democracy.

South Africa had by far the biggest military in Africa and was never under threat.

Get your facts straight.

Actually, they certainly did lose every one of their forever wars

Angola: The South African backed UNITA forces were defeated by the MPLA
Rhodesia: South African backed Rhodesian government defeated by ZANLA and ZIPRA.
Namibia: South Africa defeated, Namibia becomes independent.
Mozambique: South African backed RENAMO defeated by FRELIMO.
South Africa itself: the ANC brings down the apartheid regime.

0 for 5 is a pretty shitty batting average bud.

 

[Tigerace117]

Er, who longs for those things? Nobody I know.

Both are long gone.

Is this all you can come up with to be derogatory about whites?

What have you to say about the disgusting behaviour currently taking place in South Africa with blacks looting and pillaging?

The same folks sobbing about how awful it is that apartheid is gone, and wailing “but the blacks”.

Duh.

 

[Tigerace117]

one for sure you do "care" only Jews, and never mention millions of Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians, Poles, Tatars, etc, not enough human for you ? or you are ok with Marxist terror?

The Kazakh famine of 1931–1933, also known as the Kazakh catastrophe, Asharshylyk and Zulmat[9] was a famine where 1.5 million (other sources state as many as 2.0–2.3 million[10]) people died in Soviet Kazakhstan, then part of the Russian Federal Republic in the Soviet Union, of whom 1.3 million were ethnic Kazakhs; 38% of all Kazakhs died, the highest percentage of any ethnic group killed in the Soviet famine of 1932–33.[3][7] Some historians assume that 42% of the entire Kazakh population died in the famine.[11]

The famine began in winter 1930, a full year before the great famine in Ukraine, with the height in the years 1931-1933.[12][7][13][14]

The famine made Kazakhs a minority in the Kazakh ASSR, caused by the massive amount of people who died or migrated, and not until the 1990s did Kazakhs become the largest group in Kazakhstan again. Before the famine, around 60% of the republic's population were Kazakhs, but only around 38% of the population were Kazakhs after the famine.[4][5][6][7]

The famine is seen by some scholars to belong to the wider history of collectivization in the Soviet Union and part of the Soviet famine of 1932–33.[13] Two thirds of the Kazakh survivors of the famine were successfully sedentarized due to the 80% reduction of their herds, the impossibility of resuming pastoral activity in the immediate post-famine environment, and the repatriation and resettlement program undertaken by Soviet authorities.[15] Kazakhstan's livestock and grain were largely acquired between 1929 and 1932, with one-third of the republic's cereals being requisitioned and more than 1 million tons confiscated in 1930 to provide food for the cities.

Oh look, another Litwin rant because he can’t handle facing actual history and being called out on his bigotries. Yawn.

 

[bomberfox]

The same folks sobbing about how awful it is that apartheid is gone, and wailing “but the blacks”.

Duh.

Anyone wailing about apartheid being gone isnt an honest debater.

 

[Peter King]

Sadly the whites in South Africa, including my ancestors the Dutch are the root cause of most of the violence there. If you enslave or oppress people for decades and decades and then suddenly give them most of the political power in a country, you risk getting these kinds of things.

Not that the black leaders who are causing these also do not share in the blame, corruption and lack of economic progress for many people have left SA with a lot of anger, tribal/political issues and no problem solving ability to solve these issues.

Whites have robbed the country of a lot of dollars worth of natural resources from the country. The country will have to move away from the way they are running things now and create a more profitable society for all South Africans.

 

[TypicalRussian]

no, Muscovites are too primitive, too backward you bring to your colonial subjects only the sufferings , Muscovite like only to kill , rape , loot
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Протоколы сионских мудрецов) or The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion is a fabricated antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination. The hoax was shown to be plagiarized from several earlier sources, some not antisemitic in nature.[1] It was first published in Russia in 1903,

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

i think every nation was anti-semitic in the past

 

[Litwin]

Sadly the whites in South Africa, including my ancestors the Dutch are the root cause of most of the violence there. If you enslave or oppress people for decades and decades and then suddenly give them most of the political power in a country, you risk getting these kinds of things.

Not that the black leaders who are causing these also do not share in the blame, corruption and lack of economic progress for many people have left SA with a lot of anger, tribal/political issues and no problem solving ability to solve these issues.

Whites have robbed the country of a lot of dollars worth of natural resources from the country. The country will have to move away from the way they are running things now and create a more profitable society for all South Africans.

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants , Peter I think your version of events is too simple

 

[Infinite Chaos]

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants , Peter I think your version of events is too simple

If you give any minority anywhere in the world, all the best resources and mass slave labour for 400 years - that minority should be doing well.

Funny how you and our apartheid defender completely ignore that with all that money and resource - they never put any money or effort into developing the rest of the country. What you've got now is a group of people in the first 40 years of learning how to run a country while the majority of resources are still largely owned by the minority.

 

[Peter King]

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants , Peter I think your version of events is too simple

You got the gist of it or didn't you? White people screwed up most countries in the South of Africa, English, Dutch, Germans and in the middle of Africa it was the Belgian king who was an absolute bastard towards the people in what was called Belgian Congo.

 

[Fledermaus]

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants , Peter I think your version of events is too simple

For all your crying about "Moscow slaves" you appear to have no issue with it in Africa.

 

[Ginza]

The same folks sobbing about how awful it is that apartheid is gone, and wailing “but the blacks”.

Er, exactly who has said "how awful it is that apartheid has gone"?

I haven't heard anyone say that in my life.

So if you're not just making up nonsense, please provide a link.

What some folks here are not happy about is that blacks are getting the criticism for blacks looting and pillaging.

Weirdly, they'd rather play the victim and blame someone else because blacks are looting and pillaging.

 

[Ginza]

Actually, they certainly did lose every one of their forever wars

Angola: The South African backed UNITA forces were defeated by the MPLA
Rhodesia: South African backed Rhodesian government defeated by ZANLA and ZIPRA.
Namibia: South Africa defeated, Namibia becomes independent.
Mozambique: South African backed RENAMO defeated by FRELIMO.
South Africa itself: the ANC brings down the apartheid regime.

0 for 5 is a pretty shitty batting average bud.

Lol!

In not a single one of those "wars" was the SA military defeated, bud.

You obviously don't know the difference between "backing" an ally and a military defeat.

The ANC "bringing down the apartheid regime" after whites voted in a referendum that democracy be implemented is in what way a military defeat? I had to smile at that classic example of clutching at straws.

South African military defeated in Namibia? Lol! Can you name a single battle in Namibia where the SA military was defeated? You won't find one....so how can their military have been dfeated? They merely successfully defended their border against Cuban/MPLA invasion..

Again, why make things up?

Do you think people will believe any fake news that is posted here?

 

[Ginza]

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants , Peter I think your version of events is too simple

Simple minded in the extreme...and of course he is absolutely incorrect, but of course he is in line with todays WOKE left-wing apologists for any criminal behaviour by black people.

South African blacks are the richest in Africa......and they certainly didn't get that way by their own efforts.

They were wearing animal skins and living in mud huts when whites arrived.

 

[Ginza]

That's great news!

I hope that England can find some way to get Mr. Jimmy Lai, publisher of the now defunct Apple Daily and now a prisoner of the Reds, out of Hong Kong, too.

It would be great to see Jimmy Lai released.

He has done nothing else but champion the cause of democracy in Hong Kong.

China has absolutely no respect for an individuals right to express an opinion.

 

[Ginza]

Gee, after several hundred years of whites doing it, first in the name of colonial glory and then apartheid while people like you waved their pom-poms and cheered, your posturing is rather meaningless.

Again, it appears to go straight over your head that you can't play the victim about what may have happened many years ago because it is blacks being criminal and looting and rioting right now in South Africa.

 

[Ginza]

Besides, colonialism decimated a whole range of norms and the idea of democracy is an implanted ideal.

How can whites have implanted democracy when no African state was democratic when under Colonial powers?

In your haste to blame whites for every criminal act conducted by blacks, you have obviously forgotten this fact.

Name me one single country in Africa where Africans themselves didn't choose a system of democracy themselves.

Just one.

Colonialism brought civilisation to Africa. It brought schools, hospitals, universities, roads and railways, and the rule of law. The colonists cannot claim to have brought democracy. Africans had to fight for democracy.

Ever heard of the cry "one man, one vote"?

 

[Ginza]

The whites did nothing to lift up the African peoples of South Africa

Maybe you would care to share some pics of schools, hospitals, universities, roads, railways etc before whites arrived in South Africa.

Or even perhaps someone using a wheeled vehicle of any kind.

Or even someone wearing something other than animal skins.

Or perhaps someone living in a house not made of mud and grass.

Most African leaders in Southern Africa like Mandela, Banda, Mugabe, Khama etc were all educated at universities built by whites.

Your claim is so ludicrous that I can only shake my head. It's a classic display of ignorance of African history.

 

[Ginza]

SA empire under Afrikaners domination , produced 80% of Sub Sahara´s GDP., produced nuclear bombs, was (is ) magnet for African emigrants

Correct.

Emigrants came from all over Africa to work in South Africa, especially the mines. This is why much of the bantu migration into SA took place.

And yet, all some anti-white racists can talk about is the evil whites taking advantage of blacks.

I suggest anyone interested in the truth should read the diaries of the earliest traders in Natal, South Africa......Nathaniel Isaacs or Henry Fyn. they were not colonisers, but traders, whose biggest problem was the great number of Zulus who fled their bondage under Zulu chiefs like Tshaka and Dingaan to live with and work for the white settlers in Durban. Durban went on to become the home of millions of Zulus, and they are the ones mostly rioting today. They are Zuma (also a Zulu) supporters.....whereas all the past leaders of SA like Mandela, Mbeki and Ramaphosa are not Zulu.

Zulus feel that their own man, Zuma, is being unfairly persecuted and jailed by non-Zulus. The Zulus are the biggest African tribe in SA, but are not in the majority when it comes to Bantu people living in SA.

This conflict has absolutely nothing to do with whites as some ant-white racists pathetically try to make out.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Lol!

In not a single one of those "wars" was the SA military defeated, bud.

You obviously don't know the difference between "backing" an ally and a military defeat.

The ANC "bringing down the apartheid regime" after whites voted in a referendum that democracy be implemented is in what way a military defeat? I had to smile at that classic example of clutching at straws.

South African military defeated in Namibia? Lol! Can you name a single battle in Namibia where the SA military was defeated? You won't find one....so how can their military have been dfeated? They merely successfully defended their border against Cuban/MPLA invasion..

Again, why make things up?

Do you think people will believe any fake news that is posted here?

South African forces were as far north as Angola and still Namibia / Angola and other states were freed from puppet regimes supported by South Africa and America.

Simple minded in the extreme...and of course he is absolutely incorrect, but of course he is in line with todays WOKE left-wing apologists for any criminal behaviour by black people.

South African blacks are the richest in Africa......and they certainly didn't get that way by their own efforts.

They were wearing animal skins and living in mud huts when whites arrived.

Make your mind up man! You’ve been trying to sell the “empty land myth” you were taught in Apartheid classes. Which is it? Mud huts and animal skins or empty land myth?

How can whites have implanted democracy when no African state was democratic when under Colonial powers?

And you contradict yourself again. Previously you were claiming there was democracy and now you've gone volte face

But to show you that debate is supposed to be a two way thing - I'll answer your question. Colonialism was about land conquest and rape of mineral resources. While in power - the colonials did nothing to lift the population with any of those resources. They did nothing to build infrastructure for the conquered peoples.

Maybe you would care to share some pics of schools, hospitals, universities, roads, railways etc before whites arrived in South Africa.

Or even perhaps someone using a wheeled vehicle of any kind.

Or even someone wearing something other than animal skins.

Or perhaps someone living in a house not made of mud and grass.

Most African leaders in Southern Africa like Mandela, Banda, Mugabe, Khama etc were all educated at universities built by whites.

Your claim is so ludicrous that I can only shake my head. It's a classic display of ignorance of African history.

1) Universities - University of Timbuktu is still the oldest known university in Africa.

University of Timbuktu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2) Wheeled vehicles in sub-Saharan Africa would have rotted with age but this university article documents the existence pre-colonialism.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1159117

3) Animal skins - The Boers didn't teach you much as you're obviously ignorant of the cloths of the Benin empire. Before that, cloth has been discovered from as early as the 8th Century.

African textiles

African textiles are the major form of expression that Africans use to define themselves

www.contemporary-african-art.com

4) Houses and cities... including stone
Great Zimbabwe
Kumasi
Kilwa
Loango City

The classic display of ignorance is yours I'm afraid. Some of those cities fell into decay while others like the cities on the Tanzaniain coast were bombed into pieces by Portuguese warships. After all, it's esy to claim "Terra Nullius" when you have destroyed all evidence of civilisation isn't it?

Now, how about the same and answering my previous questions?

If I get none, you can consider yourself dismissed for deliberate ignorance of basic facts.