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Dead or alive

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prometeus

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I'm not following. Are you suggesting that a fetus has no brain function?
 
prometeus said:
I was reading through the "Breaking News" forum and came across a thread dealing with brain death.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...in-dead-means-really-dead.html#post1062763424 and the article it references Why brain dead is really dead - CNN.com

The unmistakable conclusion is that without brain function there is no "life" yet some people can not accept this when applied in reverse.
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You may be confusing brain death (or lack of neuronal activity) with brain function, in which the brain does have at least basic neuronal activity, controlling electrical impulses which innervate other vital organ function. Fetuses have active brain function. A brain dead individual does not. Without at least basic brain stem function, the body cannot live.
 
lizzie said:
You may be confusing brain death (or lack of neuronal activity) with brain function, in which the brain does have at least basic neuronal activity, controlling electrical impulses which innervate other vital organ function. Fetuses have active brain function. A brain dead individual does not. Without at least basic brain stem function, the body cannot live.
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I confused nothing, but you may be misrepresenting what I posted.
 
smells like just another pro-abortion bait thread to me......
 
lizzie said:
And in what context does your op apply to the subject of abortion?
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Early term fetuses do not have any brain function. Thus if we are to apply the reverse to what qualified as dead fetuses are not "living"
 
Fetus will develop brain function, a dead person wont. See the difference?
 
prometeus said:
One can only lead a horse to water...

How did you come up with this? Did you read the article?
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Yes.

Both these situations are different from brain death: According to the Uniform Determination of Death Act, an individual is dead when he or she "has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem."

What that essentially means is that the brain, an extremely complex organ, no longer helps the patient function.
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Did you?
 
prometeus said:
Early term fetuses do not have any brain function. Thus if we are to apply the reverse to what qualified as dead fetuses are not "living"
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A fetus has brain function at about 6 weeks, which is before many women are even aware that they are pregnant.

(and it appears that my interpretation of what you were getting at, was spot-on)
 
prometeus said:
Actually it is not.
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Initially, in the very early fetal period, you are technically right, but if you are talking about brain death vs brain function, and applying that to determination of whether or not a fetus is dead or alive, then yes, it is.
 
lizzie said:
Initially, in the very early fetal period, you are technically right, but if you are talking about brain death vs brain function, and applying that to determination of whether or not a fetus is dead or alive, then yes, it is.
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This may appear as semantics but it really is not. The fetus is alive and by that I mean it is made up of living cells, but it is not "living" as the opposite of what dead is when "brain death" is declared. To put is another way, meaningful brain activity as in that necessary to be considered "alive" as per that cited article, does not exist till some time around 20+ weeks.
 
prometeus said:
This may appear as semantics but it really is not. The fetus is alive and by that I mean it is made up of living cells, but it is not "living" as the opposite of what dead is when "brain death" is declared. To put is another way, meaningful brain activity as in that necessary to be considered "alive" as per that cited article, does not exist till some time around 20+ weeks.
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The brain begins to form in the 4th week of pregnancy. By week 6, rudimentary brain activity can be detected. The heart and the brain form early and quickly, since both are needed to sustain life. The embryo shows brain waves even before it is classified as a fetus, which is at about the end of the 8th week. It is the 8th week that the fetus responds to touch which is indeed a developed brain function.
 
This thread's topic - the comparison it makes - lacks brain function and I for one would be okay if it were aborted.

Failing to understand the difference between permanent fatal pathophysiology and normal embryological development is so much fail.
 
From the title, I thought this was a thread about Bush and Osama bin Laden. After reading some of the posts, I wish it was.
 
vesper said:
The brain begins to form in the 4th week of pregnancy. By week 6, rudimentary brain activity can be detected. The heart and the brain form early and quickly, since both are needed to sustain life. The embryo shows brain waves even before it is classified as a fetus, which is at about the end of the 8th week. It is the 8th week that the fetus responds to touch which is indeed a developed brain function.
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Begins to form, but the question is when does it function to the level of the fetus to be considered alive?
No, the 8th week responce is about the same as a dead frog leg responding to electrical stimulus or a sunflower turning towards the sun and does not amount to "brain function" in the context of the article cited in the OP.
 
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