Crouching Bear, Hidden Dragon?

[teacher]

I think it's a crime that so many people are willing to sit back and let others be abused. If your neighbor beat his wife would you just sit there and listen to her scream? That's crap.

So when we are done with Iraq, how about straightening up one of the African countries?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I believe her. Why do you think she's lying? And what does she have to gain by it?

I have no doubt that she believes it I'm just of the opinion that the interventionalist philosophy in and of itself is bullshit and in contradiction with the principles that the Republic was founded on.

 

[teacher]

I have no doubt that she believes it I'm just of the opinion that the interventionalist philosophy in and of itself is bullshit and in contradiction with the principles that the Republic was founded on.

I bet she'll grow up to be a Libertarian slanting to the left. Bur probably not until she starts racking in fat loot. That seems to open a lot of people's eyes. My ex worked for tips and it gave her a strange view on the world. They have a weird, kinda justified sense of entitlement that puts them in a strange place. They are abused often and have no recourse. I couldn't do it. I'd hit someone.

Anyway, founding fathers. Back then we didn't dominate like we do now. And they weren't all that nice. They had slaves. How could they preach human rights then with out looking like dicks? It wasn't until civil rights that our country became civilized. Very thought provoking post bro. How often do we think that the founding fathers were dicks? So you are an isolationist? Not uncommon in Libertarians. Everybody leave everybody alone. We should start a libertarian thread, again. But I got one in the basement titled "where's my party." Never took off. I'll go post it up front.

And on a side note, whenever I call us a democracy it's just so as not to confuse people. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Or GySgt, Skilmatic, teacher, Trojan, cnredd and Billo voting on who gets a wedgie. I am the king of analogies.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I bet she'll grow up to be a Libertarian slanting to the left. Bur probably not until she starts racking in fat loot. That seems to open a lot of people's eyes. My ex worked for tips and it gave her a strange view on the world. They have a weird, kinda justified sense of entitlement that puts them in a strange place. They are abused often and have no recourse. I couldn't do it. I'd hit someone.

Anyway, founding fathers. Back then we didn't dominate like we do now. And they weren't all that nice. They had slaves. How could they preach human rights then with out looking like dicks? It wasn't until civil rights that our country became civilized. Very thought provoking post bro. How often do we think that the founding fathers were dicks? So you are an isolationist? Not uncommon in Libertarians. Everybody leave everybody alone. We should start a libertarian thread, again. But I got one in the basement titled "where's my party." Never took off. I'll go post it up front.

And on a side note, whenever I call us a democracy it's just so as not to confuse people. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Or GySgt, Skilmatic, teacher, Trojan, cnredd and Billo voting on who gets a wedgie. I am the king of analogies.

I'm not a pure isolationist I believe in free trade and open markets as they are the harbingers of Democracy, however, I don't feel that it is our job to police the world, allthough I once did prescribe to the interventionalist philosophy I have recently done a lot of intro-spection into my own views and came to the realization that Neo-conservatives are in fact liberals in Republican clothing.

I suppose that I'm a reactionary in the sense that I believe the old way wasn't broken so who why the hell did they decide to fix it? I still vote Republican though because I feel that the only positive change will come from the true right and not from the left which is the root of the problem in the first place.

All this being said politics should stop at the waters edge.

 

[teacher]

I'm not a pure isolationist I believe in free trade and open markets as they are the harbingers of Democracy, however, I don't feel that it is our job to police the world, allthough I once did prescribe to the interventionalist philosophy I have recently done a lot of intro-spection into my own views and came to the realization that Neo-conservatives are in fact liberals in Republican clothing.

I suppose that I'm a reactionary in the sense that I believe the old way wasn't broken so who why the hell did they decide to fix it? I still vote Republican though because I feel that the only positive change will come from the true right and not from the left which is the root of the problem in the first place.

All this being said politics should stop at the waters edge.

How can you stand by and stomach the way so much of the world treats people? Beheadings, torture, rape, amputations, slavery, I don't even want to think about the horrors done to children, poaching, pollution, monkey hunting and selling, the selling of humans to others, medical experimentation, enforced prostitution, brain washing of children to make them blow themselves and other children up. I mean if you can ignore it or put it out of your mind or say not my problem I can understand and not condone that view. Just wondering how you view it.

IMO. A line on a map doesn't change who deserves to be treated humanly.

It is a personal sin not to help someone in need if I have the ability to do so. A failure, a fault of my character. Though I only hold myself to this belief and don't feel people that don't are evil. Yet on the other hand I don't give beggars money. Which reminds me says one of the voices in my head, of something I used to do for fun. That guy on the corner with the "will work for food" sign? Offer him your sandwhich or tell him you have work. Never had a taker. Once I had beer with me and I stuck a Bud out there. That got snatched. I tell them they are going to hell for lying or ask if their mother would approve of that. Or ask them if they smoke and then say "me too". They always get so mad. Makes me laugh. Try it.

And what the heck is a neo-conservative anyway. Do we have any here? How did this get by me?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

How can you stand by and stomach the way so much of the world treats people? Beheadings, torture, rape, amputations, slavery, I don't even want to think about the horrors done to children, poaching, pollution, monkey hunting and selling, the selling of humans to others, medical experimentation, enforced prostitution, brain washing of children to make them blow themselves and other children up. I mean if you can ignore it or put it out of your mind or say not my problem I can understand and not condone that view. Just wondering how you view it.

IMO. A line on a map doesn't change who deserves to be treated humanly.

It is a personal sin not to help someone in need if I have the ability to do so. A failure, a fault of my character. Though I only hold myself to this belief and don't feel people that don't are evil. Yet on the other hand I don't give beggars money. Which reminds me says one of the voices in my head, of something I used to do for fun. That guy on the corner with the "will work for food" sign? Offer him your sandwhich or tell him you have work. Never had a taker. Once I had beer with me and I stuck a Bud out there. That got snatched. I tell them they are going to hell for lying or ask if their mother would approve of that. Or ask them if they smoke and then say "me too". They always get so mad. Makes me laugh. Try it.

And what the heck is a neo-conservative anyway. Do we have any here? How did this get by me?

I sympathize with their plite but I feel that our first, last, and only priority and obligation is to the people of the United States.

It's like this, when we intervene the world hates us and calls us imperialistic,

When we don't intervene the world hates us and says that we support tyrants,

I say **** em. Let them see how far they get without us and when they come crawling back and are groveling on their knees pleading for us to help we should offer them a hand up but not before we kick them in the teeth.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Humanitarian. If a government is oppressing their people, we should take them out. All of them. Even our allies *cough* Saudi Arabia *cough* Enough of this turning a blind eye to human rights abuses.

Good though but how will you practicly do that and how should you decide that country to atack? Because there are alot of dictaturships out there.

 

[Comrade Brian]

Russia didn't have the bomb in 1945.

But both US and USSR had large enough militaries for stalemate, until each developed enough bombs to blow the other into pieces.

 

[Comrade Brian]

So when we are done with Iraq, how about straightening up one of the African countries?

Sudanese govt. needs a spanking.

 

[teacher]

Sudanese govt. needs a spanking.

How would that help and what outcome are you looking for?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

But both US and USSR had large enough militaries for stalemate, until each developed enough bombs to blow the other into pieces.

Bullshit we could have destroyed Moscow with one nuke, our technology was far superior and are bombers were of longer range, remember Stalin had to steal the Super Fortress, the war would have been over within weeks and in the long run would have saved more lives than were ended by that murdering fascist Stalin.

 

[Kelzie]

Good though but how will you practicly do that and how should you decide that country to atack? Because there are alot of dictaturships out there.

I don't know. It's so much easier to have an idea than to implement it. :lol: I'm sure there's a way. Kinda like porn. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

I don't know. It's so much easier to have an idea than to implement it. :lol: I'm sure there's a way. Kinda like porn. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

Personally I don't think there are one way but many diffrence one some better some worse. Like for example a general crusade against dictaturships that some crazy people here in Sweden and I guess in the USA too belive in is a really bad idea. Because that would lead to kiss up dictaturships that avoid being target by being loyal to the west while the rest of dictaturship get more isolatic and probably less likely to choose a way towards democracy. And also try to get nukes and bond with China and Russia. There for the result of that wouldn't be very good and the rest of the world would only see that as an imperalistic strategy of the west. Also it is very hard to fight a dictaturship without hurting the people.

But things that could be done is that USA but also Europe should live up to it's promise of WV2 that it should be no more genocide. Of course everything can be debate and become politics but Cambodia and Rwanda is clear example there USA and Europe should have stoped genocide.

Also they should press democracy and human right more amongst there allies and trade partners. One very simple thing is that western countries should see to that there companies follow the law the exists to protect the people in developing countries. Like for example China has pretty good laboring laws just that they don't get applied by western countries subsidaries.

Also USA and EU should create alot more new marshal plans. Because then countries like Liberia becomes a democracy or there partners reach a peach agreement like in Sudan. USA ande EU should be willing to give the resources needed (like for example monetarian aid expertises peace soldiers) so that the positive development will not stop.

And in some cases pressure and sanction is needed like in Burma.

 

[Kelzie]

Personally I don't think there are one way but many diffrence one some better some worse. Like for example a general crusade against dictaturships that some crazy people here in Sweden and I guess in the USA too belive in is a really bad idea. Because that would lead to kiss up dictaturships that avoid being target by being loyal to the west while the rest of dictaturship get more isolatic and probably less likely to choose a way towards democracy. And also try to get nukes and bond with China and Russia. There for the result of that wouldn't be very good and the rest of the world would only see that as an imperalistic strategy of the west. Also it is very hard to fight a dictaturship without hurting the people.

But things that could be done is that USA but also Europe should live up to it's promise of WV2 that it should be no more genocide. Of course everything can be debate and become politics but Cambodia and Rwanda is clear example there USA and Europe should have stoped genocide.

Also they should press democracy and human right more amongst there allies and trade partners. One very simple thing is that western countries should see to that there companies follow the law the exists to protect the people in developing countries. Like for example China has pretty good laboring laws just that they don't get applied by western countries subsidaries.

Also USA and EU should create alot more new marshal plans. Because then countries like Liberia becomes a democracy or there partners reach a peach agreement like in Sudan. USA ande EU should be willing to give the resources needed (like for example monetarian aid expertises peace soldiers) so that the positive development will not stop.

And in some cases pressure and sanction is needed like in Burma.

Sanctions suck. They don't hurt the people in power, they hurt the people with no power. Just look at Iraq. How many people died because of the sanctions after the Iran-Iraq War? Monetary aid...is a double edged sword. It sounds like a great idea to give people food so they don't starve, but you are if effect, destroying their own emerging agricultural industry. What farmer can compete with free? So all of a sudden the country has no farms and now must rely on foreign aid.

A kiss ass dictator is still a dictator. Look at their actions, not their words. And why just genocide? What about abuse of women? Is that not important?

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Sanctions suck. They don't hurt the people in power, they hurt the people with no power. Just look at Iraq. How many people died because of the sanctions after the Iran-Iraq War? Monetary aid...is a double edged sword. It sounds like a great idea to give people food so they don't starve, but you are if effect, destroying their own emerging agricultural industry. What farmer can compete with free? So all of a sudden the country has no farms and now must rely on foreign aid.

A kiss ass dictator is still a dictator. Look at their actions, not their words. And why just genocide? What about abuse of women? Is that not important?

Santions can of course be really bad. But some times they are needed like for example in Burma. Because how ***** up the goverment is and also it is something the people and the elected parlament wants.

Of course you can't just give money to people and think it's fine, you have to see to the consevence of those actions. But like for example in Liberia it's clear that they need monetary aid. Because they can't even pay the people employed by goverment at the same time they have to expand the services. If you don't have money to pay the employes then you will have coruption and if you don't have basic services like school there is very hard to have a positive development. And if the country is in ruin it is very hard to get that money from taxes-

Then it comes to starving there are many cases caused by liberation and rough capatilism. In that cases you can give acute help with food but at the same time work with the causes like for example cuting out middlemen and help start cooperation. Other cases it caused by failed crops and the war and there you also need acute aid, but at the same time you try to help develop the local farms and plan better and help build up reservs against failed crops.

That's my entire point that kiss ass dictator isn't any better. But you will end up with if you start all other war against dictaturship. Because the dictaturships are so many and you need goods from them. Therefor it also not a good idea going around and declaring war on every country that abuse woman. You have to use better methods then that. A important part there is to work with changing the attitude amongst the common people but also amongst the opposition. Also ecomical independence for woman is very important.