Ezekiel 10:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.
Ezekiel 1:25 | View whole chapter | See verse in context And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
Ezekiel 1:22 | View whole chapter | See verse in context And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
It's a funny question.---Continued---
Round 3: Evidence/proof
I use the terms "evidence" and "proof" very loosely in this context, as there is no objective, valid evidence/proof of either creationism or a flat earth. But both sides will certainly try to propose their idea of proof, which is often based on subjective reasoning, personal beliefs (or the regurgitation of another's beliefs or teachings), or opinions. Both sides also show a profound lack of understanding of actual science when showing their proof. Creationists will often cite "proof" such as the lack of transitional fossils, the limited time available which negates evolution, or just simply referring to the bible as the be all, end all authority on the matter (and reject anything else outright). In other words, "God did it, the bible says so, I believe it. 'Nuff said!"
Flat earthers might claim the Antarctic is actually an ice wall which prevents anyone from "falling over the edge of the world. Gravity is an illusion and the concept of a spherical earth is a conspiracy by scientific organizations (such as NASA). Their "proof" is often cryptic or just a great exercise in mental gymnastics. Flat earthers might also use scripture as "proof." But we do have proof of a spherical earth: images/videos from space, horizon curvature, satellite positioning, ect.. So the idea of a flat earth is discredited outright. Creationism too for that matter. However, what puts flat earthers ahead on this one is their often humorous or face-palm inducing attempts to rationalize their position. Therefore, Winner round 3: Flat Earth.
By a score of 2-1, the winner (or loser depending on your perspective) is Flat Earth.
They're basically the same thing.Creationism vs. Flat Earth: Which belief is more irrational?
Many creationists are also Flat Earthers.I wonder if it is possible to be both a flat earther and a creationist?
Be a real target to have someone show up on a debate site with that as a claim.
To tempt Jesus, “the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.” (Matthew 4:8) Some claim that this Bible account teaches that the entire world is visible from a single spot on a flat earth. However, the “unusually high mountain” in this account seems to be a metaphor and not a physical location. Consider why this conclusion is reasonable.Many creationists are Flat Earthers.
The New Testament states that the Earth is flat - - in a roundabout way:
Matthew 4 : 8,9 KJV
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
The only way it could be possible for Jesus to see "all the kingdoms of the world" is if the Earth was/is flat.
A circle is a circle. A sphere is a sphere.The Bible refers to God as the “One who dwells above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) Some reference works allow for the possibility that the word here rendered “circle” could mean a sphere, although not all scholars agree on this point. In any case, the Bible does not support the idea of a flat earth.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502018142?q=matthew+4:8,9&p=sen
Stretching the metaphor a bit with that one. Any kingdom at that time was "as far as the eye can see". It simply meant that controlling vast areas is difficult.Many creationists are also Flat Earthers.
The New Testament states that the Earth is flat (in a roundabout way):
Matthew 4 : 8,9 KJV
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
The only way it could be possible for Jesus to see "all the kingdoms of the world" is if the Earth was/is flat.
But did ya ever consider this...all the kingdoms of the earth do belong to Satan...Jesus did not dispute that...Stretching the metaphor a bit with that one. Any kingdom at that time was "as far as the eye can see". It simply meant that controlling vast areas is difficult.
No more than I would consider that the all the world belongs to the empire and jedi's dispute that.But did ya ever consider this...all the kingdoms of the earth do belong to Satan...Jesus did not dispute that...
Yeah, but cha gotta admit, it sure would explain a whole lotta things...No more than I would consider that the all the world belongs to the empire and jedi's dispute that.
Not much of an argument to someone who dismisses your jesus as a fantasy
Something is either rational or not . I think saying a proposition is more, or less, rational than another is pointless.---Continued---
Round 3: Evidence/proof
I use the terms "evidence" and "proof" very loosely in this context, as there is no objective, valid evidence/proof of either creationism or a flat earth. But both sides will certainly try to propose their idea of proof, which is often based on subjective reasoning, personal beliefs (or the regurgitation of another's beliefs or teachings), or opinions. Both sides also show a profound lack of understanding of actual science when showing their proof. Creationists will often cite "proof" such as the lack of transitional fossils, the limited time available which negates evolution, or just simply referring to the bible as the be all, end all authority on the matter (and reject anything else outright). In other words, "God did it, the bible says so, I believe it. 'Nuff said!"
Flat earthers might claim the Antarctic is actually an ice wall which prevents anyone from "falling over the edge of the world. Gravity is an illusion and the concept of a spherical earth is a conspiracy by scientific organizations (such as NASA). Their "proof" is often cryptic or just a great exercise in mental gymnastics. Flat earthers might also use scripture as "proof." But we do have proof of a spherical earth: images/videos from space, horizon curvature, satellite positioning, ect.. So the idea of a flat earth is discredited outright. Creationism too for that matter. However, what puts flat earthers ahead on this one is their often humorous or face-palm inducing attempts to rationalize their position. Therefore, Winner round 3: Flat Earth.
By a score of 2-1, the winner (or loser depending on your perspective) is Flat Earth.
I feel the same.They're basically the same thing.
No I do not need to admit that at all. In fact quite the opposite. There are many questions to be asked about a god that no one has answers for. All your belief in an imaginary friend does is raise more questions.Yeah, but cha gotta admit, it sure would explain a whole lotta things...
If politics is not ruled by the devil, I'll eat my hat...No I do not need to admit that at all. In fact quite the opposite. There are many questions to be asked about a god that no one has answers for. All your belief in an imaginary friend does is raise more questions.
In politics the devil is in the detail, not in running it.If politics is not ruled by the devil, I'll eat my hat...
lol...find me one who's not...In politics the devil is in the detail, not in running it.
Besides that is just a cop out . Like demanding if one priest is a peadophile then all of them must be.
I place them in the same general camp.It's a funny question.
I don't even believe in Flat Earthers. I suspect that those who profess to being one are liars. Sure, they might put up all kinds of argumentative smoke screens, but I believe they are simply knee-jerk contrarians who get off on pushing educated people's buttons for it's own sake.
Creationists are another matter. Their thoroughly brainwashed inculcation into adherence to the hollow and flawed cosmology of ancient texts puts them in a completely different category than the wink-and-a-nod arguments of a Flat Earth ideology. Strict creationists have willfully painted themselves into a scriptual corner, from which there is no escape without tracking a trail of sticky wet paint, everywhere their argument attempts to go.
To tempt Jesus, “the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.” (Matthew 4:8) Some claim that this Bible account teaches that the entire world is visible from a single spot on a flat earth. However, the “unusually high mountain” in this account seems to be a metaphor and not a physical location. Consider why this conclusion is reasonable.
The Bible refers to God as the “One who dwells above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) Some reference works allow for the possibility that the word here rendered “circle” could mean a sphere, although not all scholars agree on this point. In any case, the Bible does not support the idea of a flat earth.
- There is no literal mountain on earth from which all the kingdoms of the world are visible.
- The Devil showed Jesus not only all the kingdoms but also “their glory.” Such details could not be seen from a great distance, so it seems that the Devil used some sort of vision to show these to Jesus. This could be similar to the way a person uses a projector and a screen to show someone pictures of various places on earth.
- The parallel account at Luke 4:5 says that the Devil showed Jesus “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time,” which would not be possible through normal human vision. This implies that the Devil presented this temptation to Jesus through some means other than literal human sight.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502018142?q=matthew+4:8,9&p=sen
I wish he were here too. You need to convince him to come over.Its kind of one in the same. The belief in the firmament is also a religious idea.Ignorant gullible people want easy answers to complex problems, when viewed from the mindset of the 10th century. Some people have never advanced from that period.
I wish TiG was here.
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