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I fully understand this emotionally charged issue, and WHY it is so emotionally charged. I lived in Arizona for several years. I saw the issues..Hell, I live in Pennsylvania, and I see illegals working here as well. I will say, however, not a single one of them is working a job that anyone but my 15 year old son would consider doing.
Now...Say this friend of mine is walking down the street, and is asked to show his documentaion?
How about, instead of knee jerk legislation, we sit down and do something that will actually work,
and not put undue burden on our police,
undue burden on the many legal hispanics in this country,
and even more undue burden on our taxpayers?
Because deny it as many try to, this IS a kneejerk piece of legislation. Its a "we're not gonna take it anymore" type of law,
That's weird.
My wife is not a US citizen. She's French. If she went through Arizona, she'd affected by this law to.
What kind of racist is it that says only hispanics will be affected?
I wouldn't call you a bigot simply because you are for the Arizona law - misguided maybe, but bigot doesn't fit.If I am a bigot because I want to enforce the laws of the United States of America, then I gladly claim the title. This law has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with law enforcement.
What if I hand the officer an out of state drivers liscence? It is more complicated than that. The only people who are trained and have the proper tools and databases are federal immigration officers. I think the democrates should use the same tactics as the republicans did during the bush administration, but some democratic congresspeople are wussies. Its clear that both sides of this issue want something done AND NOW.
An issue that nobody seems to be talking about is citizens being put out because of this law.
The only way your wife would be affected is if she has brown skin, brown eyes, and black hair.
And EVERY citizen who's done something that gets the police to ask them for their ID has discovered that it's a real hassle not having that ID when they're caught committing whatever crime it is that got the cop's attention.
And people who don't break the law don't have to worry about that, and since SB 1070 restricts the police to lawful interactions with suspects, law abiding Americans don't have anything to worry about.
However, if they are paranoid, it's not hard carrying that license with them. I can only think of one or two activities where I wouldn't be wearing pockets. And I figure if the cop is asking me for my ID in the shower, something else is already seriously amiss.
.Wow.
The old out-of-state license gag.
Too bad not every state has their licenses computerized and accessible by every law enforcement agency in the country.
Oh.
Wait.
Every state does have it's license data-base on line.
The cop in Syracuse didn't have a problem with my California license. Not at all.
Amazing thing, these computers.
And if a state doesn't require proof-of-citizenship prior to issuing a license, well, that would be known to Arizona, and I'm sure some process has been worked out for people from those foolish states.
Breaking a law is as simple as going a few miles over the speed limit, or spitting on the sidewalk, my friend.
The job is NOT the job of local law enforcement.
They are NOT immigration, and it is not their job.
As for the jobs. You really think its a major issue if our 15 year olds cant find jobs?
and for the record they can ALWAYS find work. Any teenager can find a job.
There are always minimum wage jobs out there.
The job market is tough for everyone. But this recession has become a jobs disaster for 16-to-19-year-olds. "The numbers are incredible," says Andrew Sum, head of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University and a nationally recognized expert on teen employment. "Proportionally, more kids have lost jobs in the past few years than the entire country lost in the Great Depression."
Arizona should not sit back and be "raped".
It is amazing how many people still have that "innocent people never have anything to worry about" mentality.
Do you people ever pay any attention to what is going on around you?
You do not see the injustices that can and do occur?
Nobody is saying that Arizona does not have the right to protect its border, they just cant ignore my rights as a free citizen to do so. We wont let them. We will not tolerate treating us and our kids as second class citizens.
Hey, Vic.Nobody is saying that Arizona does not have the right to protect its border, they just can’t ignore my rights as a free citizen to do so. We won’t let them. We will not tolerate treating us and our kids as second class citizens.
What if I hand the officer an out of state drivers liscence? It is more complicated than that. The only people who are trained and have the proper tools and databases are federal immigration officers. I think the democrates should use the same tactics as the republicans did during the bush administration, but some democratic congresspeople are wussies. Its clear that both sides of this issue want something done AND NOW.
This lame argument again?
When every summer we hear reports about how the nation's youth can't find jobs? You think maybe there might be a connection between illegal invaders holding down work 15 year olds might want and the inability of 15 year old Americans to find suitable work?
Then, of course, there's always the point that it's wrong to say there's jobs Americans won't do.
Raise the wages offered, and eventually some American will do the job.
Also, if there's a demand for unskilled labor, that means there's jobs out there waiting for someone to leave the welfare rolls to go do it. So, REAL reform would connect employers with the welfare agencies, and whenever a welfare recipient is reported to have refused offered work, he's taken off the dole. That'll give lots of Americans real incentive to work.
But, whatever, it's flat wrong to say there's jobs "Americans" won't do.
Just watch Mike Rowe's "Dirty Jobs" show sometime, okay?
SB1070 has been on-line for months now. Are we still required to treat as serious arguments as factually vacant as what you're insisting on preseting?
No, we're not.
If your buddy hasn't broken any laws that lead the police to question him on other matters, he won't be asked to present ID, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PERSON IN ARIZONA.
Read the damn bill unless you like looking ignorant when you post on a thread discssing it.
From the number of Invaders fleeing Arizona before the law had even taken effect, I'm forced to say that Arizona's law actually worked quite well.
Enforcing the law isn't an undue burden on the police.
It's their job.
No burden on them. If they don't break the law, they don't run afoul of the police.
That's not hard to figure out.
Oh, getting the Invaders to go home is the kind of negative burden real taxpayers like. It's like the burden of "carrying" a helium balloon. The more you carry, the better your feet feel.
Explain why Arizona should lay back and enjoy being raped.
Explain why American citizens living along the Mexican border should be expected by people like you to live in their own homes in fear, and why Arizona shouldn't react when the Invaders have made Arizona's largest city the kidnapping capital of the world, and when Arizonians are being murdered in their homes by these Invaders.
what does it matter, the law will be declared unconstitutional.
Actually only 2 of the 3 employment provisions were blocked, not the whole bill.These provisions were-
# Prohibit firing of workers legally in the country while retaining workers illegally in the country.
# Require businesses that contract with individual private contractors to obtain documentation that the individuals are authorized to work or, without documentation, withhold taxes at the top rate.
These provisions are still being enforced
HB 1804 Summary
Section 3 replicates the federal provision that makes it a felony punishable by imprisonment for not less than 1 year or a fine of $1000.00, for any person to transport, harbor, or shelter an alien in reckless disregard for their illegal immigration status. State and local prosecutors now have the tools to stop illegal aliens from "residing" in Oklahoma, or traveling instate in search of unlawful employment.
Section 4 restricts issuance of most official identification documents to U.S. citizens, legal permanent resident aliens or holders of valid unexpired visas. Illegal aliens cannot operate in-state if they lack official documentation. Use of foreign consular cards issued to illegal aliens has been prohibited.
Section 5 requires police to verify the immigration status of persons who have been arrested and detained at a local jail for felony crimes, and report all illegal aliens to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
Section 7 requires all public employers to use the Basic Pilot electronic work authorization verification program. State and local public contractors are prohibited from commencing work on a taxpayer-funded contract before they register with the Basic Pilot Program.
Section 8 requires every public agency to verify the lawful presence of aliens aged 14 years or older who applies for state or local public benefits, using the online SAVE system, as authorized by the 1996 Welfare Reform Act. Standard federal exceptions for emergency health care treatment or other public health services apply. This measure builds on similar provisions developed by IRLI that have been successfully adopted by Virginia, Colorado, and Georgia.
snip...
Section 10 directs the Oklahoma Attorney General to negotiate a "287(g)" cooperative agreement between the State of Oklahoma and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to increase state and local police joint enforcement of federal immigration law with DHS. 287(g) agreements help insure that illegal aliens discovered by Oklahoma police officers are quickly and safely transferred into federal custody. Helps fight "catch and release" abuses that allow criminal aliens back into the neighborhoods where they were arrested.
Do you honestly think HB1804 would survive on that side of the country especially when it hit the left circuit court of appeals? Most of hb1804 would be in legal limbo until it hit the supreme court.James, great work posting this. VERY enlightening. Folks, this is Oklahoma's law. Part of it was 'put on hold,' but if James is correct with this post, the above provisions are enforced and have been ruled enforceable. These powers seems pretty broad. It makes me wonder why they didn't just model their law after this one. I wonder what was wrong with it that it wasn't used as a model.
Nobody is saying that Arizona does not have the right to protect its border, they just cant ignore my rights as a free citizen to do so. We wont let them. We will not tolerate treating us and our kids as second class citizens.
Americans.
Being murdered.
By Invaders.
That's why this is an emergency.
Hell, I live hundreds of miles from the border and can see that it's an emergency.
The nation unemployment rate has soared to an official number of >9% under the Messiah. In many areas the number is twice that.
Shipping the Invaders back to their proper side of the border would alleviate much of this misery.
You see, one of the biggest problems associated with illegal immigrantion from Mexico is the country's poor economy, unfair pay wages and their labor laws. While I realize there's nothing this country can do to improve their wages or labor conditions in this country, I do belief that if Mexico could inprove their economy we'd see fewer illegals crossing our sourthern boarder.
NAFTA was suppose to help in that regard. What happened?
The main reason they come here is MONEY! They want to make a better way to support themselves.
Now, their may still suffer from not only those things I mentioned above but also the lack of proper medical care, drug trafficing and corruption, but those, too, are internal problem the Mexican government would have to deal with single-handedly. But this nation could help boost Mexico's economy if we could somehow improve trade between each nation. In order to do that, however, we'd first have to determine if NAFTA has even worked w/Mexico. If not, why?
Um, yeah, except that the "invaders" are being paid peanuts compared to what an American citizen would be getting paid under Federal law, and the businesses who hire the "invaders" do so because it helps their bottom line.
Besides, how many American citizens do you think would rush to fill in these migrant labor jobs for minimum wage?
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