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Cops lead with Violence, Citizen in Coma

So report it then. :shrug:



So then for the purposes of this thread, there was no cocaine possession to mitigate Officer Linebacker's tackle of this innocent man. Glad we cleared that up.


It wouldn't have mattered if there was cocaine possession OR NOT.

A use of force has to be based upon the best information avaliable to an officer AT.. THE... TIME...

At the time, they had a suspect positively identified by a witness, when they went to speak to him, the suspect took off running, obviously in order to flee from the police. Since the police had a reasonable suspicion to conduct an investigatory detention, they had a reason to get involved in the foot pursuit of said suspect. When attempting to stop a fleeing suspect, one must be required to use a level of force necessary to stop the suspect from fleeing. I would say that a "SHOVE" which constitutes as a "Soft Empty Hand" technique would more than suffice, being as it is very low on the use of force continuum. It is unfortunate that the suspect happened to hit the wall of the theatre with a sensitive section of his head, causing him to be knocked into a coma.

All the stuff that we know afterwards means jack **** when making a determination of whether the officer was justified in his actions AT THE TIME.

This is why the general public FAILS at judging whether an officer's actions are justified or excessive.
 
It wouldn't have mattered if there was cocaine possession OR NOT.

A use of force has to be based upon the best information avaliable to an officer AT.. THE... TIME...

At the time, they had a suspect positively identified by a witness, when they went to speak to him, the suspect took off running, obviously in order to flee from the police. Since the police had a reasonable suspicion to conduct an investigatory detention, they had a reason to get involved in the foot pursuit of said suspect. When attempting to stop a fleeing suspect, one must be required to use a level of force necessary to stop the suspect from fleeing. I would say that a "SHOVE" which constitutes as a "Soft Empty Hand" technique would more than suffice, being as it is very low on the use of force continuum. It is unfortunate that the suspect happened to hit the wall of the theatre with a sensitive section of his head, causing him to be knocked into a coma.

All the stuff that we know afterwards means jack **** when making a determination of whether the officer was justified in his actions AT THE TIME.

This is why the general public FAILS at judging whether an officer's actions are justified or excessive.

Meh. I still hope the jackboot bastard fries for his part in putting an innocent civilian into a coma.
 
Meh. I still hope the jackboot bastard fries for his part in putting an innocent civilian into a coma.

This is the type of attitude im talking about.

This is your only response to the rational discussion of the topic I posted?
 
This is the type of attitude im talking about.

This is your only response to the rational discussion of the topic I posted?

There is nothing rational about a police officer brutalizing an innocent civilian based on flimsy suspicion.

And I also happen to just not like cops in general. Anyone who makes the decision to make barely middle class wages just for the power to run around and exert authoritah over others has to have mental problems to start with.
 
There is nothing rational about a police officer brutalizing an innocent civilian based on flimsy suspicion.

And I also happen to just not like cops in general. Anyone who makes the decision to make barely middle class wages just for the power to run around and exert authoritah over others has to have mental problems to start with.

Yes, because anyone who wants to take a low paying dangerous job to make their community a better place to live and have a positive effect on those around them has mental problems.

:roll:

Sounds to me like you need to get the **** out of the city and find some real police officers to learn about.
 
Yes, because anyone who wants to take a low paying dangerous job to make their community a better place to live and have a positive effect on those around them has mental problems.

:roll:

Sounds to me like you need to get the **** out of the city and find some real police officers to learn about.

So you confess that there is a problem with the police in some places. Like Los Angeles.
 
So you confess that there is a problem with the police in some places. Like Los Angeles.


I'll admit that the type of problems that one faces in a Large City (im talking cities like LA, NY, Chicago, etc) can cause them to become insensitive to the needs and problems of those in their community that don't harbor any ill will towards them.

I'll also admit that many young Officers have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to dealing with individuals they encounter. I work with one such individual. You know you have a potentially bad apple when, amongst fellow officers, an individual answers the question "What is being a police officer about, to you?" He states, "Crackin' Skulls."

We've calmed him down alot because its a natural reaction to be aggressive when you first get out of academy.
 
I for one did not take the job just so I could wield authority. I took the job because I had a sense of duty to my community and country. Same reason I joined and stayed in the military for so long. The wages were irrelevant. I had to do something I enjoyed and got satisfaction out of.

I got out when I physically didn't qualify anymore (eye disease). Since then I've made up for my low wage, but I do miss interrogating suspects and the chases.

This is not a case of an officer deliberately brutalizing an innocent person. This is a case of an officer taking down a fleeing person who was identified by witnesses as having committed a violent assault. I know you don't agree with what happened and I understand that, but this officer was not brutalizing anyone, he was taking down a guy who had been identified as a violent offender and who had fled. The officer had no idea the witnesses had picked the wrong guy out. All they knew was he was the guy and he was fleeing arrest. That info equates to bad guy who hurts people and won't cooperate with arrest, don't take a chance, take him down.

The cop didn't stand over him and pummel him over and over. It was a vary hard open handed shove, it wasn't even a tackle. There is nothing to indicate this cop even remotely intended to put this guy in a coma or do great bodily harm. And there's no indication he knew this guy was innocent. There's every indication he thought this was guy was a violent offender who was resisting arrest by fleeing.

I hate this happened. But it was a tragic case of a bad identification and horrible accident.
 
To be perfectly honest, if a cop did that to my kid, I'd go after him. He would not be walking when I was done.

I'd go to jail for it, because clearly he's not going to go to jail for attempted murder so at that point, I would punish him as I see fit.

Although if I tackled someone like that, I would be going to jail for attempted murder, even if I had just cause to do so.
 
To be perfectly honest, if a cop did that to my kid, I'd go after him. He would not be walking when I was done.

I'd go to jail for it, because clearly he's not going to go to jail for attempted murder so at that point, I would punish him as I see fit.

Although if I tackled someone like that, I would be going to jail for attempted murder, even if I had just cause to do so.

Its not attempted murder.

Claiming attempted murder means there was an intent to cause death to the person that you "attempted" murder on.

This was just an officer stopping a fleeing suspect through use of physical force, based upon the best information available to him at the time of his actions.

To sit back and be a monday morning quarterback and nit pick at the actions of another person in a situation where you have all of this information

A. He wasn't the proper suspect.
B. The cop's actions put the guy in a coma.
C. He didn't have any weapons on him AT THE TIME.

Information that the police officer did not have at the time.



I fear that if the police acted according to the way some members of the public wanted us to react, we would be nothing more than meat shields, afraid to properly act for fear of lawsuit and retribution in the even that the information we have was wrong.

Then of course, when we fail to act aggressively and a suspect causes harm to the public, then we'll get blamed for that too.


BTW: If you shoved someone like that you would not go to jail for attempted murder if you had just cause to do so. Stop being so melodramatic.
 
To sit back and be a monday morning quarterback and nit pick at the actions of another person in a situation where you have all of this information

A. He wasn't the proper suspect.
B. The cop's actions put the guy in a coma.
C. He didn't have any weapons on him AT THE TIME.

The only truly relevant item out of that list is B. That alone warrants a detailed investigation by a neutral third party unaffiliated with the police force.

It's like this: everything is stacked legally for the cop. If a cop gets out of hand while performing his duty, no one except maybe another cop can do anything about it at the time without fearing being sent to jail for assault on a police officer, etc. If the cops have that much power, then a little fear of a lawsuit if they act out of line isn't too much to ask to help tone down those cops who are total dicks.
 
The only truly relevant item out of that list is B. That alone warrants a detailed investigation by a neutral third party unaffiliated with the police force.

It's like this: everything is stacked legally for the cop. If a cop gets out of hand while performing his duty, no one except maybe another cop can do anything about it at the time without fearing being sent to jail for assault on a police officer, etc. If the cops have that much power, then a little fear of a lawsuit if they act out of line isn't too much to ask to help tone down those cops who are total dicks.

I have no doubt this cop and his agency will get sued. You just can't get it wrong like that, even if your intentions were to do the right thing and take a "bad guy" down. There is a good faith defense in this case, but the bottom line is that this kid is in a coma. Accident or not, I'm sure there will be a civil suit. You just can't get it wrong like that and not suffer repercussions.

I know many of us disagree on the use of force, but that cop was trying to apprehend a guy he truly believed was a violent offender who was fleeing. Had that been the actual bad guy who was busting peoples heads open, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
Its not attempted murder.

Claiming attempted murder means there was an intent to cause death to the person that you "attempted" murder on.

This was just an officer stopping a fleeing suspect through use of physical force, based upon the best information available to him at the time of his actions.

To sit back and be a monday morning quarterback and nit pick at the actions of another person in a situation where you have all of this information

A. He wasn't the proper suspect.
B. The cop's actions put the guy in a coma.
C. He didn't have any weapons on him AT THE TIME.

Information that the police officer did not have at the time.



I fear that if the police acted according to the way some members of the public wanted us to react, we would be nothing more than meat shields, afraid to properly act for fear of lawsuit and retribution in the even that the information we have was wrong.

Then of course, when we fail to act aggressively and a suspect causes harm to the public, then we'll get blamed for that too.


BTW: If you shoved someone like that you would not go to jail for attempted murder if you had just cause to do so. Stop being so melodramatic.

A few things I'd like to note.

First, this is the information I base it on. This information was available to the officer at the time he made the attack:

1. Suspect was no longer running. He was walking, almost stumbling.
2. The Cop was running full speed still even though the suspect was no longer fleeing. He made no effort to slow his momentum. He made no effort to do anything else but slam forcefully into the suspect.
3. The suspect was ending his resistance. Drawing a weapon and stopping would have been less risky to both people than lowering one's shoulder and slamming into him would be.


This wasn't a "shove". That's 100% disingenuous. That's like calling hurricane Katrina, "Rainstorm" Katrina. A shove doesn't involve the shoulder. A shove doesn't propel someone off of their feet. That's a tackle with extreme force on a formerly fleeing suspect. The suspect was no longer running.



Next: I did get arrested once for tackling someone. The guy threw a brick through my friend's window while he was having a party. I was outside and I chased and tackled the guy. I was arrested for this and charged with aggravated battery, which in Illinois is a class D felony. I spent a couple of days in jail over it.

And the guy I tackled wasn't even harmed by it. The only reason I beat the charge is because some of the other party goers came out to attack the guy and at that point I defended the guy from getting is ass kicked. The guy who I tackled ended up not pressing charges, but I didn't find this out until a 1/2 hour before I was supposed to have the charges filed the following Monday morning. Since it happened on a Friday night, I spent all of Saturday and Sunday in the clink, for not doing anything wrong.

Had I put the guy in a coma, you can be damned sure I would've gotten attempted murder over it. And I would have been convicted of it as well. Because the only reason I got off the other charge was because the guy was not in a coma.

I'm not being anything close to melodramatic.

Of course, I didn't hit my guy with that kind of force. I didn't hit my guy into a concrete wall. I caught him from behind while he was still running and dragged him down. Of course, I was actually more interested in stopping the guy than I was in harming the guy. The cop can't say that one.



When I was a kid, I ran from cops quite a few times. I got caught a few of those times. Nothing pisses a cop off more than running from him.

And you know what they did when they caught me? They typically beat the living **** out of me. If not beat the **** out of me, they'd, at the very least, do some things specifically to cause pain such as driving their knee into my neck while I'm lying face down with my arms spread out wide. Why? Because they were pissed that I made them run.

And I know this because as they inflict the pain they always, invariably, say, "Why you runnin', huh!" as they hit me or drove their knee harder into my neck.

This cop only applied that much force because he wanted to harm the suspect. He wanted to show him who's "boss", like every damned cop that uses excessive force on the planet does. Sure, he wasn't trying to put the guy in a coma, but he wanted the guy to feel pain. That's a guaran-****in'-tee.

And if you are being honest, you'll admit that this goes through a lot of cops minds at the end of a chase. They don't want to put someone in a coma, but they definitely want to teach the guy a lesson. That lesson is that you don't run from cops.

That was the intent of the force used by this cop. Not anything else. The violent way he jerked the guy's arm around after he hit him lets you know 100% that he was angry.



Also, I've dealt with a loved one being in a coma before over a skull fracture. I know what kind of force is necessary to cause that kind of damage. It's a LOT of force.

Here's a few things to consider as well related to you "Monday morning QB" comment:

1. I don't care if this was the right suspect or not. The force was too excessive for the level of threat that existed at the time that the force was applied.
2. Even if he wasn't put into a coma, the force is too excessive.
3. If he had actually had a weapon and the will to use it, the cop would have been dead or damaged over his stupidity. He had ample time to draw that weapon during the chase and could have turned and fired when the cop was bearing down on him. The cop's stupid and arrogant actions would have cost him his life had that guy actually been a threat.

So the things you assumed were the cause of my views are actually completely irrelevant to my views. I would feel the same way if none of those were true.



I feel that the cop should have stopped and drawn his weapon instead of tackling him. If, at that point, the guy had reached anywhere except for the sky, the cop would have been justified to fire that weapon, IMO. I wouldn't accuse the cop of any wrongdoing if that's how things went down.
 
The only truly relevant item out of that list is B. That alone warrants a detailed investigation by a neutral third party unaffiliated with the police force.

It's like this: everything is stacked legally for the cop. If a cop gets out of hand while performing his duty, no one except maybe another cop can do anything about it at the time without fearing being sent to jail for assault on a police officer, etc. If the cops have that much power, then a little fear of a lawsuit if they act out of line isn't too much to ask to help tone down those cops who are total dicks.

This guy isn't a total dick, there was no INTENT to cause this guy to be in a coma.

Had there been no injury, this would be a non issue, but because an event occurred outside of normal expectations (the suspect striking his head during the fall at an angle that caused enough trauma to put him in a coma) then suddenly the cop is a dick and all cops are evil power hungry fools.

I pity your lack of understanding for our profession.
 
This guy isn't a total dick, there was no INTENT to cause this guy to be in a coma.

Intent to put him in a coma? No. Intent to cause some degree of harm? Yes.

When there is intent to harm, then all ramifications, regardless of whether they are intended or not, are due to the intent to harm.

Had there been no injury, this would be a non issue, but because an event occurred outside of normal expectations (the suspect striking his head during the fall at an angle that caused enough trauma to put him in a coma) then suddenly the cop is a dick and all cops are evil power hungry fools.

I pity your lack of understanding for our profession.


Had there been no injury, the cop would still be wrong in using that degree of force for a suspect that was no longer fleeing.
 
Intent to put him in a coma? No. Intent to cause some degree of harm? Yes.
Unless you can prove there was intent to cause HARM (not just to keep him from fleeing) then your assertions are assinine and accusatory at best.


When there is intent to harm, then all ramifications, regardless of whether they are intended or not, are due to the intent to harm.
Again, no intent to harm unless you can otherwise prove that.

The problem is that you already dislike the police due to your own childish actions you described in an earlier post, so your not looking at the situation from the Officer's point of view, which is important in deciding whether or not excessive force has been used.




Had there been no injury, the cop would still be wrong in using that degree of force for a suspect that was no longer fleeing.
No longer fleeing? What because he broke down from a run to a walk three steps prior to getting shoved by the Officer? Walking away when told to stop is still resistance.
 
This guy isn't a total dick, there was no INTENT to cause this guy to be in a coma.

Had there been no injury, this would be a non issue, but because an event occurred outside of normal expectations (the suspect striking his head during the fall at an angle that caused enough trauma to put him in a coma) then suddenly the cop is a dick and all cops are evil power hungry fools.

I pity your lack of understanding for our profession.

I pity your lack of professionalism when dealing with bad seeds within your own ranks.

There was no sense in shoulder tackling a man who was no longer fleeing the scene. Everything about this smacks of a bully with a badge wanting to show a "perp" (who, coincidentally wasn't even the perp) a lesson. The cop doesn't teach the lessons or mete out the punishment. The courts do.

And because some meathead with a badge couldn't grasp that, an innocent man is in a coma.
 
I pity your lack of professionalism when dealing with bad seeds within your own ranks.

There was no sense in shoulder tackling a man who was no longer fleeing the scene. Everything about this smacks of a bully with a badge wanting to show a "perp" (who, coincidentally wasn't even the perp) a lesson. The cop doesn't teach the lessons or mete out the punishment. The courts do.

And because some meathead with a badge couldn't grasp that, an innocent man is in a coma.

Your assumption that he is a bully with a badge trying to teach a lesson is based upon what then, other than an immature obvious dislike of police in general?

P.S. Breaking down from a run to a walk 2 steps before getting shoved doesn't constitute "no longer fleeing".

For that matter, walking away from the police when told to stop doesn't exactly constitute compliance either.
 
Your assumption that he is a bully with a badge trying to teach a lesson is based upon what then, other than an immature obvious dislike of police in general?

P.S. Breaking down from a run to a walk 2 steps before getting shoved doesn't constitute "no longer fleeing".

For that matter, walking away from the police when told to stop doesn't exactly constitute compliance either.

You see the same video that I do. The force exerted was not commensurate with the actions of this victim of police brutality. I'm sorry you lack the professionalism to make an objective observation on this. It doesn't make me feel very secure for the citizens of Charlotte either.
 
You see the same video that I do. The force exerted was not commensurate with the actions of this victim of police brutality. I'm sorry you lack the professionalism to make an objective observation on this. It doesn't make me feel very secure for the citizens of Charlotte either.

I don't know that you can draw conclusions like this from the short snippet of video. It's not clear exactly how fast the "suspect" is going, but it is clear he is trying to get away from the officer and is not being compliant. Its easy to armchair quarterback but that happened in a split second. It's not as easy as people think to suddenly stop and draw a weapon in a controlled fashion. The officer actually put HIMSELF at some degree of risk of physical harm by trying to stop a fleeing person like that, versus drawing down on him.

The family will probably sue the department, and may even win a civil lawsuit, but I think this officer acted in good faith. All this person had to do was stop and respond to the officer. He'd have been patted down, detained for a few minutes, and then sent on his way.
 
Bad day for a skinny little restaurant manager.


Two fat fellows charge at you from a dark alley. You run to a well lit area only to get knocked into a coma... Ow

I predict back on patrol after the clamor dies down. Maybe an offer from LAPD.


This one was pretty good

15 year old girl assaulted in jail.

Thanks for this website. Its badazz

Vacationing Calif. cops subdue violent airline passenger

"The unarmed officers were soon battling a violent and possibly mentally ill man and holding him down for hours using seat belts, coffee cart straps and Vasquez's black cowhide belt he got for a birthday.

We don't have a Taser. We don't have restraints. We don't have vests. We don't have radios. What we are left with is what we started out with back in the day.""

"At one point the captain asked the sergeant whether he should divert the plane.

Vasquez figured maybe they were near Hawaii. Not a bad idea. The pilot said the nearest airport was Anchorage, Alaska. Both officers agreed they would try to hold the passenger down until they got to San Francisco."
 
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Bad day for a skinny little restaurant manager.


Two fat fellows charge at you from a dark alley. You run to a well lit area only to get knocked into a coma... Ow

I predict back on patrol after the clamor dies down. Maybe an offer from LAPD.


This one was pretty good

15 year old girl assaulted in jail.

Thanks for this website. Its badazz

Vacationing Calif. cops subdue violent airline passenger

"The unarmed officers were soon battling a violent and possibly mentally ill man and holding him down for hours using seat belts, coffee cart straps and Vasquez's black cowhide belt he got for a birthday.

We don't have a Taser. We don't have restraints. We don't have vests. We don't have radios. What we are left with is what we started out with back in the day.""

"At one point the captain asked the sergeant whether he should divert the plane.

Vasquez figured maybe they were near Hawaii. Not a bad idea. The pilot said the nearest airport was Anchorage, Alaska. Both officers agreed they would try to hold the passenger down until they got to San Francisco."

SPECIAL ATTENTION VOIDWAR:

Take the time to read the comments attached to the article in reference to beating the 15 year old girl in the cell. These are law enforcement officers from around the country verifying that this is in fact a violation and excessive use of force.

Where is your Blue wall code of silence?
 
Even the scummiest used car salesman knows when his pitch is not working.

If I could still view the original thread in which we discussed this incident, I could probably find a few damning quotes from our local Blue Wallers. Perhaps you can go look for yourself.

When it becomes ridiculously apparent that no amount of covering for and justifying will work, then, maybe the Blue Wall will turn on one of its own.

This in no way changes the fact that the Covering for and the Justifying are the activities of the Blue Wall
 
Even the scummiest used car salesman knows when his pitch is not working.

If I could still view the original thread in which we discussed this incident, I could probably find a few damning quotes from our local Blue Wallers. Perhaps you can go look for yourself.

When it becomes ridiculously apparent that no amount of covering for and justifying will work, then, maybe the Blue Wall will turn on one of its own.

This in no way changes the fact that the Covering for and the Justifying are the activities of the Blue Wall

Who makes up the "Blue Wall"?
 
Who makes up the "Blue Wall"?

I've already given you a link for more information on the Blue Wall.

If your question was genuine, you would answer it yourself.

A good guess for starters would be cops and their cronies who are defending and rationalizing the Coma inducing brutality in the OP.
 
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