Cops can be wrong, but not legally guilty (Blake)

[What if...?]

In the Blake case, I am not saying the cop did no wrong.

Most people don’t seem to acknowledge the gray areas, these situations are on a continuum from perfect cop reaction to completely wrong obviously criminal reaction.

The reality is much more nuanced. The cop reacted too soon in the Blake case, but he was provoked into do so.
if he delays one more second, and he could be dead. He has a reasonable fear of that, given a dangerous felon is ignoring commands and possibly reaching for a weapon (it’s happened many times and cops have died exactly like this).

I will not hold cops to a standard of perfection, either:

1. be perfect in a dangerous situation

2. or die,

3. or go to prison.

Those are the three options you give a cop when you don’t allow for misjudgments.

Sorry but perps have a responsibility to walk the line in these situations, do exactly as you are told, why? Exactly because cops are not perfect and you might die unnecessarily if you act a fool.

And ignoring cops with guns drawn and reaching in your car while being arrested on felony charges is the definition of acting a fool.

Obey authority absolutely and instantly or die.

Got it.

 

[Batcat]

Once all the muslims take over this country, and white people become minorities, and the Muslim police treat the white people differently than the muslims, and shoot white people more often in similar situations, I just don't think the white parents have the guts to stand up for justice like the black community currently is.

So are suggesting that Jacob Blake should have been allowed to get in the car and drive off with two children in the back? Or perhaps he should have been allowed to grab a pistol or sawed off shotgun, turn and shoot the cop.

Suppose you were the cop. What would you have done in the situation?

 

[Simpletruther]

You don’t need proof future harm will happen. Only reasonable belief that it might, in order to use deadly force

This is a violent man, with violent criminal history, against this very family, who won’t conply with police orders and attempt to validly arrest him. He must not be permitted to enter a vehicle. And he wasn’t.

No, you are not a genius. You’re a political hack trying to use quasi-intellectual sounding sophistry to argue away that this man presented a deadly threat to officers and children and had the violent record to show it was likely

Utter drivel nonsense. A reasonable belief that something “might happen” later isn’t remotely justification for gunning people down.
There must be an eminent threat, which didn’t exist. He wasn’t threatening the children, we wasn’t pointing a weapon at them. nothing. Zero. You making truly celestial claims, pulling them out of Uranus.

 

[george48]

We will see... But i see racism as huge problem, systemically, in the USA... But, to be sane, this appears to be a guy who said he had a knife... Went for his car...

 

[Simpletruther]

Obey authority absolutely and instantly or die.

Got it.

No, that is a dangerous attitude. The cops life must be in danger first. You can’t just gun people down for refusing orders.

 

[pinqy]

So again, its perfectly okay that agents of the government don't have to recognize my individualism because others who share traits with me, one in particular, have done bad things? Its fine for them to approach me with a level of intensity that they wouldn't approach you with because I look like someone else who committed a crime weeks ago that they interacted with?



Talk about non compliance things that might get someone killed.....

Tell me again there isn't a certain luxury to not being a minority.

This should be interesting.Your video is a selection of White People not being shot. Clearly you think this is relevant.

Here’s one of Black People not being shot, but I suspect you will not find it relevant.


And let’s examine disparate treatment: uncooperative Black football player vs uncooperative White judge:

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No, that is a dangerous attitude. The cops life must be in danger first. You can’t just gun people down for refusing orders.

If the orders are direct commands involving officer safety then maybe they can.

 

[noonereal]

And ignoring cops with guns drawn and reaching in your car FOR A KNIFE while being arrested on felony charges is the definition of acting a fool.

I made your statement more accurate.

 

[noonereal]

We will see... But i see racism as huge problem, systemically, in the USA... But, to be sane, this appears to be a guy who said he had a knife... Went for his car...

What are you saying?

Can you translate this to English please?

 

[pinqy]

Obey authority absolutely and instantly or die.

Got it.

No, it's "Obey lawful orders or be prepared for use of force proportionate to the threat you present."

 

[pinqy]

I made your statement more accurate.

Are you trying to say a knife is not a weapon?

 

[What if...?]

Are you trying to say a knife is not a weapon?

Not to interrupt but has anybody seen this knife or an official description?

There's lots of things properly described as "knife" but not a convincing "weapon".

 

[What if...?]

No, it's "Obey lawful orders or be prepared for use of force proportionate to the threat you present."

But personal experience calls the latter part of you statement into question.

We have seen far too many incidents where it turned out that the force was not proportionate.

It seems that any percieved threat is justification for lethal force, at the end of the day. How often do we hear some version of "I thought they had a weapon"?

So in reality, what is said is how it is.

Cops can talk to you any way they want to. They can **** with you, lie on you, and there's nothing you can do about it. You can take the abuse and try to complain but look up the stats on complaint outcomes.

It's not worth the time it takes to fill out the forms. If you can get the forms in the first place.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

This should be interesting.Your video is a selection of White People not being shot. Clearly you think this is relevant.

Here’s one of Black People not being shot, but I suspect you will not find it relevant.


And let’s examine disparate treatment: uncooperative Black football player vs uncooperative White judge:

To be fair, I never said that white people didn't get shot or that some blacks didn't walk away.

The guy said something very important in that video.....a lot of the incidents come down to the officers training. I believe I have on multiple occasions stated that part of solving these problems is better training. Another part is hiring practices.

I mean hell, did you miss the post where I said that I didn't think that they walked away because they were white, but because they ran into good cops in those situations.

I'm not anti police. I'm anti BAD police. There are just too many people who act like there is no such thing as a bad cop.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

No we shouldn’t. Life is sacred but it’s no so sacred that a killer need always be imprisoned. If a policeman uses force in good faith they should never be criminally liable for it since the alternative is lawless anarchy which will kill far more people

The phrase "good faith" creates a lot of ground to cover....but I'll ask this question in good faith nonetheless....

Should they at least be civilly liable?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The phrase "good faith" creates a lot of ground to cover....but I'll ask this question in good faith nonetheless....

Should they at least be civilly liable?

No.

Families of criminals should not be rewarded with taxpayer money for their relative disobeying lawful orders

 

[bullseyelqcs]

No.

Families of criminals should not be rewarded with taxpayer money for their relative disobeying lawful orders

You ARE aware that every order a cop gives you isn't necessarily lawful, right? Hence the problem.

 

[Simpletruther]

To be fair, I never said that white people didn't get shot or that some blacks didn't walk away.

The guy said something very important in that video.....a lot of the incidents come down to the officers training. I believe I have on multiple occasions stated that part of solving these problems is better training. Another part is hiring practices.

I mean hell, did you miss the post where I said that I didn't think that they walked away because they were white, but because they ran into good cops in those situations.

I'm not anti police. I'm anti BAD police. There are just too many people who act like there is no such thing as a bad cop.

I remember seeing an analysis where s lot of the white deaths happen in low crime towns where police are less seasoned in dangerous situations, and they make bad judgement calls. Which is why whites are killed at disproportionately higher rates per police encounter.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You ARE aware that every order a cop gives you isn't necessarily lawful, right? Hence the problem.

Yeah but 99% are and in an imperfect world that’s good enough