Conservatives tried to hijack Juneteenth Day by claiming Republicans freed the slaves

[Jagged]

Isnt that amazing.....

and yet...if you buy into the 'collective' lie, its not possible...because 'black people' are oppressed even today by 'white people'. Which is of course...stupid...and not true...but makes for really great fodder to build corrupt social programs on.

I know...its a really ****ing stupid lie thats spoon fed to those eager to swallow it...when you actually examine it...right?

Who's oppressing them?

 

[CLAX1911]

Minimum wage only applies to the employed.

Then the minimum wage is zero.

No one knows why you're talking about the unemployed?

I'm not I'm talking about minimum wage.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who's oppressing them?

Typically the gangsters that live in their community, and the politicians that are paid off by these gangsters that are local so almost 100% Democrat.

It literally is a feudal system and that's what's oppressing them. The way to stop it it's to arrest the criminals even if they're black.

 

[VanceMack]

Who's oppressing them?

Anyone that thinks they are 400 years still a slave. That person that stares back at them from the mirror is their greatest oppressor. Its refreshing to see many wake up to the devastation they have bought into. Its tragic to see so many still the walking dead.

I watch videos of kids at college campuses...places where they have earned (or in some cases been gifted) opportunities that so many people will never know...and they still act like massa is at the whip.

Its ****ing stupid. But sadly, there is a lot of money ion being the victim......just not as much as being the victimizer.

This conversation has run its course. You either know I'm right and wont change your mind, or refuse to believe anything other than what you have been spoon fed ad are convinced I'm wrong.


Either way...your move, chief.

 

[Jagged]

Then the minimum wage is zero.

I'm not I'm talking about minimum wage.

The minimum wage doesn't apply to unemployed people. What is wrong with you?

 

[Blue Dog]

Hardly. 'You' are a collective. 75 million lemmings marching off a cliff is an amazing site...but are still just 75 million lemmings marching off a cliff.

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I march in lockstep with Democrats. Note my username.

Glad thats cleared up.

 

[CLAX1911]

Anyone that thinks they are 400 years still a slave. That person that stares back at them from the mirror is their greatest oppressor. Its refreshing to see many wake up to the devastation they have bought into. Its tragic to see so many still the walking dead.

There's an interesting fact I learned about this. So shortly after this whole war ended there are a lot of laws placed specifically on the south regarding black people. Been along comes this civil Rights era which again was focused on the South. The north completely escaped these sorts of laws because at those times there was less discrimination. Now northern states particularly northeastern states tend to have more laws on their books that are a bit discriminatory. Red lining comes to mind

I watch videos of kids at college campuses...places where they have earned (or in some cases been gifted) opportunities that so many people will never know...and they still act like massa is at the whip.

That's the victimhood grift.

Its ****ing stupid. But sadly, there is a lot of money ion being the victim......just not as much as being the victimizer.

This is why they try to say you can't say anything about it because you're white and yes I can.

This conversation has run its course. You either know I'm right and wont change your mind, or refuse to believe anything other than what you have been spoon fed ad are convinced I'm wrong.

Indeed

Either way...your move, chief.

 

[CLAX1911]

The minimum wage doesn't apply to unemployed people.

Yes it does.

What is wrong with you?

The fact that demanding an employer pay this much to his employees suggests he will have fewer of them.

It will just lead to more people being unemployed which **** them right?

 

[Juin]

I agree. I think bigger picture thinking is needed. People today judge history as if they would personally experience it with a time machine. They shit themselves today over common cultural practices from hundreds of years ago, not smart enough to recognize that they in those times would have lived a radically different life with radically different cultural understandings.

Exactly! Much truth to that.

Keep in mind we also tend to look at life centuries ago as far more simple and black and white than was the case. Slavery is a good example. Everyone today will swear that they would have been against slavery if teleported back into the past, but was it as simple as that? Lets take for example, a person inherits a slave plantation from their parents, what do they do, assuming they are abolitionists? Grant freedom to all their slaves? The complication here is that the vast majority of the slaves lacked the aptitude as well as welcoming environment to fend for themselves outside the plantation. Plus, good chance is gangs could just kidnap them and sell them to other plantations, I read some other anecdotal cases where some abolitionist minded slaveowners simply sold the slaves for a tidy profit and then took to abolitionism; a rather questionable kind of abolitionism.

And we can also ask how generations down the road- say 2200- will judge us. We all flock to walmart, but its prices are low because the goods are assembled in third world conditions with horrible working conditions, using child labor, no insurance, no rights... The glitter of gold jewelry in jewlry shops: do we think of children working mines in third world countries for that gold? We overlook it, but a later generation may take us to task.

 

[GhostFence]

Too many people fail to recognize that political parties change their agendas over long periods of time.
The Democrats of the 1860's were indeed the slavers and the Republicans were the abolitionists.
And yes, it would indeed appear that as the Civil Rights movement gained steam, Democrats decided that it was much better to appeal to the black labor working class and appeal to human rights, as they were becoming increasinly embarrassed by the rest of the country witnessing the horrible treatment of black people down South.

Nobody should deify or lionize a party too much because political parties have always been opportunists to a greater or lesser degree.
Republicans and Democrats are not your "Valentine" that you should fall in love with or worship, they are a bus going to a certain place and if that is close enough
to where you want to travel, get on the bus and pay your fare, then get off.

There are people in politics who desire to do saintly things but that said, human beings are still not saints.
We are flawed and always will be.
The trick is to weigh the good and bad and decide based on there being enough good for the country as a whole.

I'm not entirely sure this is how things are working.

After dealing with Conservatives, and being one myself until 2003, it has become apparent that they know this, and they want to confuse gullible folks by spreading lies and disinformation. They do this with everything.

Exactly! Much truth to that.

Keep in mind we also tend to look at life centuries ago as far more simple and black and white than was the case. Slavery is a good example. Everyone today will swear that they would have been against slavery if teleported back into the past, but was it as simple as that? Lets take for example, a person inherits a slave plantation from their parents, what do they do, assuming they are abolitionists? Grant freedom to all their slaves? The complication here is that the vast majority of the slaves lacked the aptitude as well as welcoming environment to fend for themselves outside the plantation. Plus, good chance is gangs could just kidnap them and sell them to other plantations, I read some other anecdotal cases where some abolitionist minded slaveowners simply sold the slaves for a tidy profit and then took to abolitionism; a rather questionable kind of abolitionism.

And we can also ask how generations down the road- say 2200- will judge us. We all flock to walmart, but its prices are low because the goods are assembled in third world conditions with horrible working conditions, using child labor, no insurance, no rights... The glitter of gold jewelry in jewlry shops: do we think of children working mines in third world countries for that gold? We overlook it, but a later generation may take us to task.

You identify as a Conservative with this level of awareness? You just made the case that people become more liberal over time (looking back at us today and being disgusted in our reliance on third world child labor, etc). That's not a Conservative take.

 

[CLAX1911]

I'm not entirely sure this is how things are working.

After dealing with Conservatives, and being one myself until 2003, it has become apparent that they know this, and they want to confuse gullible folks by spreading lies and disinformation. They do this with everything.

I've heard people say the exact same thing about Democrats so have something to support this or it's just partisan hackery.

 

[GhostFence]

I've heard people say the exact same thing about Democrats so have something to support this or it's just partisan hackery.

Explain to me why I should care if you think something is partisan hackery.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

After dealing with Conservatives, and being one myself until 2003, it has become apparent that they know this, and they want to confuse gullible folks by spreading lies and disinformation. They do this with everything.

Yes, and the folks I am referring to are their targets, the NewsMax-Fox-OAN viewers....the cult members.
Of course pro-MAGA knows the real history, that's why they've poured a fortune into revisionism.

PS: I vote Democrat, I ID as a liberal but I do HAVE some conservative views.
There was a brief flicker back around 2007 or so when I was working so much I did not have time to follow polly ticks and didn't have a clue who
"the black guy with the funny sounding name" was.

Hussein-something or other WTF?.....I thought this was some kind of joke candidate and I was prepared to pinch my nose and vote for McCain.
When I heard that Hussein guy talking about stuff I realized he was the real deal so I changed my mind.
But for a moment I was considering voting for McCain.

That would have been the first time I voted for a Republican prezzie-dint.

 

[Jagged]

Anyone that thinks they are 400 years still a slave. That person that stares back at them from the mirror is their greatest oppressor. Its refreshing to see many wake up to the devastation they have bought into. Its tragic to see so many still the walking dead.

I watch videos of kids at college campuses...places where they have earned (or in some cases been gifted) opportunities that so many people will never know...and they still act like massa is at the whip.

Its ****ing stupid. But sadly, there is a lot of money ion being the victim......just not as much as being the victimizer.

This conversation has run its course. You either know I'm right and wont change your mind, or refuse to believe anything other than what you have been spoon fed ad are convinced I'm wrong.


Either way...your move, chief.

I don't know anyone who thinks they're still a slave.

 

[Felis Leo]

The really funny thing is MAGA is just the resurrection of the old Dixiecrats.

So true. Post-Civil War, the Federal government really should have hanged a few thousand Southern Plantation owners and officers for treason, charged their widows to price for the rope, and all their property should have been divided among their former slaves. It would have saved us a lot of trouble 160 years on.

 

[Jagged]

Yes it does.

The fact that demanding an employer pay this much to his employees suggests he will have fewer of them.

It will just lead to more people being unemployed which **** them right?

No, it doesn't. Thanks for revealing your confusion. Explains a lot.

 

[CLAX1911]

Explain to me why I should care if you think something is partisan hackery.

You shouldn't care about me at all and you should care about not engaging in partisan hackery.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, it doesn't. Thanks for revealing your confusion. Explains a lot.

I'm cutting through the bullshit. The real minimum wage is zero. You have to be employed potentially to make the fake minimum wage meaning you can go lower by unemployment.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So true. Post-Civil War, the Federal government really should have hanged a few thousand Southern Plantation owners and officers for treason, charged their widows to price for the rope, and all their property should have been divided among their former slaves. It would have saved us a lot of trouble 160 years on.

And Post Insurrection Nancy Pelosi should have refused to seat these 147 traitors to the Republic.
We never ever seem to learn, it seems.



I know...bla bla bla mumble "the Union must be preserved" quack quack quack.
Sorry to say, it was never ever a union in the real sense of the word.
It sure as shit isn't one now.

 

[Nickyjo]

My theory is the devastation was unintentional at least for most people. It was brought to you by birth control.

Democrats don't want to recognize that because they're misanthropic. Now it's just in a debate with one that thinks there's too many people on the planet.

I think most of this division into groups like black people and women and LGBT is this essentially a divide and conquer strategy.

No, it’s in response to the divide and conquer strategy.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, it’s in response to the divide and conquer strategy.

Then why is it so determined on division? I'm just a person I happen to be a man I happened to be white I happened to be Christian and I happened to be LGBT these things don't define me.

People trying to force me into groups based on these characteristics is absolutely division.

I'm not worried about Christian theocracy coming to power and imprisoning me for my sexual orientation even though people are trying to gen up that fear that's a method to divide not to unite. I'm not concerned about an atheists or Jewish people or Hindus or Muslims doing their religious beliefs and interacting with me. The fear of this being a problem is generated by the left.

 

[Jagged]

Again... minimum wage IS the minimum wage an employer can pay paid employees. If you're unemployed, you're not entitled to minimum wage.

That you can't comprehend such a basic principle, is on you. I suggest you get educated.

I can't help you don't understand minimum wage only applies to those earning wages. Hence, minimum wage.

 

[Nickyjo]

Then why is it so determined on division? I'm just a person I happen to be a man I happened to be white I happened to be Christian and I happened to be LGBT these things don't define me.

People trying to force me into groups based on these characteristics is absolutely division.

I'm not worried about Christian theocracy coming to power and imprisoning me for my sexual orientation even though people are trying to gen up that fear that's a method to divide not to unite. I'm not concerned about an atheists or Jewish people or Hindus or Muslims doing their religious beliefs and interacting with me. The fear of this being a problem is generated by the left.

We must be talking past one another big time. Was it wrong for Congress and states to pass laws prohibiting discrimination? Was it wrong for women, Blacks, and the LGBT population to agitate for their rights? Of course your whiteness and Christianity and LGBT status don’t define you. You are CLAX1911, gloriously unique. The reason people agitated for your rights as a White or male or gay or whatever was because others have sought to make some folks lesser persons because of their race or sex or sexual preference. Examples: Professionally, as a farm worker union official I ran into growers who would not hire Mexicans to do certain work that they wanted Filipinos to do, and would not hire Whites if they could get away with it. As to Blacks, as one grower put it “don’t send me no niggers.” As a civil rights investigator I also got 20 women both back pay and offers of their jobs as waiters back, for them having been fired by a restaurant’s new owners because female waiters didn’t fit the “decor” of the restaurant. In each case it was the “offender” that was engaging in the division you deplore. The response from the “offended” was to demand the same treatment, to not accept the division.

 

[CLAX1911]

We must be talking past one another big time. Was it wrong for Congress and states to pass laws prohibiting discrimination? Was it wrong for women, Blacks, and the LGBT population to agitate for their rights?

This doesn't have anything to do with rights. You don't have the right to be included or employed.

Of course your whiteness and Christianity and LGBT status don’t define you.

Then talk to people on your side of the political spectrum and tell them to quit making out like it does. Do you know how many times one of you leftists have said to me how can you vote conservative you're gay. As though I should vote for the people that want me to be bashed? If I'm armed to the teeth I don't get bashed.

You are CLAX1911, gloriously unique.

No I'm just like everyone else quit treating me like I'm special it's creepy.

The reason people agitated for your rights as a White or male or gay or whatever was because others have sought to make some folks lesser persons because of their race or sex or sexual preference.

Now that all my rides are equal and the only people actually agitating against them are leftists it's time to stop.

Again if I carry a gun and someone tries to bash me I can just shoot them you don't want me to be able to do that you advocate against my rights more than anyone else. Should I interpret this as you want me to get bashed perhaps by criminals that are more likely to carry guns illegally?

You absolutely do not support my rights you are against them.

Examples: Professionally, as a farm worker union official I ran into growers who would not hire Mexicans to do certain work that they wanted Filipinos to do, and would not hire Whites if they could get away with it. As to Blacks, as one grower put it “don’t send me no niggers.” As a civil rights investigator I also got 20 women both back pay and offers of their jobs as waiters back, for them having been fired by a restaurant’s new owners because female waiters didn’t fit the “decor” of the restaurant. In each case it was the “offender” that was engaging in the division you deplore.

Okay again it's strictly from the left wing that I hear people telling me that the Christians are coming after me next if they stop creepy ass child molester doctors from castrating kids and pretending it's gender-affirming care. That's too balkanize me and with these transgender people that have absolutely nothing to do with me and some of them are profoundly homophobic to divide me against whatever Christian group you don't like or just conservatives in general.

The response from the “offended” was to demand the same treatment, to not accept the division.

And you specifically in this forum have advocated against my rights, my rights to use a firearm to defend myself so you want me to be bashed or at the mercy of whoever wants me to be bashed.

 

[Juin]

You identify as a Conservative with this level of awareness? You just made the case that people become more liberal over time (looking back at us today and being disgusted in our reliance on third world child labor, etc). That's not a Conservative take.

Its complicated. In my mid to late teens I started off at the Marxist end of the political spectrum. This was after I picked up a book, the ABC of Communism, by two tough Bolsheviks: Nicolai Bukharin and Evgenii Preobrazhenskyii. I had an epiphany no less than that of Saul of Tarsus on his way to Damascus. The book appeared to have all the answers, and all the solutions! Workers are suckers. The capitalists get everything. Everything is set up to line the pockets of the capitalists. Religion blinds the suffering worker in promising him an illusory heaven, instead of fair wages on earth. Even nationalism sets up wars that kill workers by the thousands, while lining the pockets of capitalists of both sides. Workers, get smart. Workers, unite. Evict the capitalists. Set up a utopia of communal property and fraternal living conditions.

For a few months I was insufferable until it wore off. Then I migrated from Marxist left to lets call it the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party, This was the 80's, no Bernie Sanders then. Maybe he was but he did not cross my radar. At the time I considered it an unfortunate tragedy that Carter lost to Reagan. I did not like Reagan at all when he was in office. I only got to admire Reagan much later, post mortem Still I was moving towards the Democratic center. I rooted for Mike Dukakis, he lost. What a string of loses! Carter lost. Walter Mondale lost! Mike Dukakis lost! Keep in mind I wasnt into politics that much when Carter won. So when was a Democrat gonna win?

Then Clinton won. Broke the spell. But at that point I can say I had migrated from the Democratic right to the Republican left. I was glad Clinton won, but I had also come to like Bush Sr; maybe his brilliant handling of Desert Storm.

By mid of Bill Clinton's 1st term I was solidly in the Republican left.

I will say Bush Jr has been in my lifetime the President I got attached to the most

The above should answer your question some. I identify as conservative quite alright; but I wont say I did quite shed the idealism inherent in liberalism