Conservatives: should we remove the Statue of Liberty poem?

[ElChupacabra]

So your post says Trump didn't actually take any steps but cloaks their conspiracy theory in COVID measures.

Most of your article takes issue with immigration being reduced because.....Trump enforces immigration law.

You can't be a public charge. You have to be a real refugee, not just claim status and so on.

The only change is Trump enforcing the law vs ignoring it.

 

[Ikari]

Seems pretty incompatible with your views on immigration and American greatness. Would you support removing the poem?

“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

MAGAs aren't conservatives.

 

[VanceMack]

I mean...who would be stupid enough to believe that the statue of liberty poem means "throw out all laws and allow 20-40 million illegal immigrants to swarm your cities..."

 

[quip]

No. The statue has longer staying power than Trump. He'll eventually be no more than an historical herpes sore on American history.

 

[Ganondagan]

New data shows why the U.S. needs more immigrants

As the fight over immigration reached peak chaos in the U.S. Senate earlier this month, the Congressional Budget Office held a press conference nearby. The director’s briefing about the latest economic forecast seemed disconnected from the political drama playing out a few blocks away. But its...

publicintegrity.org

Legal immigrants...emphasis on legal.

 

[Ganondagan]

So your post says Trump didn't actually take any steps but cloaks their conspiracy theory in COVID measures.

Most of your article takes issue with immigration being reduced because.....Trump enforces immigration law.

You can't be a public charge. You have to be a real refugee, not just claim status and so on.

The only change is Trump enforcing the law vs ignoring it.

If only the left cared as much for American citizens as they do for illegal immigrants and criminals. What am I saying, that'll never happen

 

[ataraxia]

If only the left cared as much for American citizens as they do for illegal immigrants and criminals. What am I saying, that'll never happen

They tend to generally do better for America than the right. Just ask Donald Trump.

 

[upsideguy]

Why do you insist on thinking illegal immigration is the same as legal immigration? We absolutely do welcome immigrants who come to our country legally. This is just another example of the evil of the left. Do you not understand that the most support given to Trump's immigrant policies is from the Hispanic community? You know, the most recent LEGAL immigrants?

Democrats will never win elections again if they can't recognize reality. Here is an example of just how disconnected Democrats are from the common sense core of American citizens.

I don't think that you understand that America is currently closed to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Yes, we technically still have a legal process, but the 'door ain't open'. We do need comprehensive immigration reform: we need agreement as to how immigration should work and then manage to that.

Immigration to the U.S. Dropped an Insane 92%

The United States has welcomed more than 85 million legal immigrants to the United States since its founding. But at no time since it has maintained records has the country witnessed as fast a decline in legal immigration as it has seen in the second half of fiscal year 2020 (which finished...

nationalinterest.org

So your post says Trump didn't actually take any steps but cloaks their conspiracy theory in COVID measures.

Most of your article takes issue with immigration being reduced because.....Trump enforces immigration law.

You can't be a public charge. You have to be a real refugee, not just claim status and so on.

The only change is Trump enforcing the law vs ignoring it.

Trump doesn't like any immigration. He reduced legal immigration during first term (but actually increase illegal immigration)

President Trump Reduced Legal Immigration. He Did Not Reduce Illegal Immigration

The population of illegal immigrants remained about the same as when he took office.

www.cato.org

Trump restricted legal immigration in his first term. Will it happen again?

Trump’s changes to legal immigration didn't grab many headlines, but they affected people and U.S. businesses, and some warn a second term could have more ripple effects.

www.nbcnews.com

A Look Back At Trump's Immigration Policies And Their Impact On Immigrants

In the first term of President Donald Trump's leadership, his main focus was to limit immigration. He issued over 400 executive actions, which changed the immigration system in the United States. Trump's administration successfully reduced the number of legal immigrants...

www.theocimmigrationattorney.com

Donald Trump’s Team Takes First Steps To Cut Legal Immigration

Donald Trump reduced legal immigration in his first term, and his team has taken the first steps to do so again.

www.forbes.com

 

[ElChupacabra]

Legal immigrants...emphasis on legal.

Again, this administration wants less of those too. Perhaps you can do a better job at reading the article to find the specific policies this administration is employing to do exactly that.

 

[Ganondagan]

Again, this administration wants less of those too. Perhaps you can do a better job at reading the article to find the specific policies this administration is employing to do exactly that.

I know about this administration's policies. It's important to get immigration and the deportation of illegal immigration under control first, even if it takes years. Then start over under a sensible immigration policy that is actually enforced.

 

[trumptman]

I don't think that you understand that America is currently closed to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Yes, we technically still have a legal process, but the 'door ain't open'. We do need comprehensive immigration reform: we need agreement as to how immigration should work and then manage to that.

Immigration to the U.S. Dropped an Insane 92%

The United States has welcomed more than 85 million legal immigrants to the United States since its founding. But at no time since it has maintained records has the country witnessed as fast a decline in legal immigration as it has seen in the second half of fiscal year 2020 (which finished...

nationalinterest.org

Trump doesn't like any immigration. He reduced legal immigration during first term (but actually increase illegal immigration)

President Trump Reduced Legal Immigration. He Did Not Reduce Illegal Immigration

The population of illegal immigrants remained about the same as when he took office.

www.cato.org

Trump restricted legal immigration in his first term. Will it happen again?

Trump’s changes to legal immigration didn't grab many headlines, but they affected people and U.S. businesses, and some warn a second term could have more ripple effects.

www.nbcnews.com

A Look Back At Trump's Immigration Policies And Their Impact On Immigrants

In the first term of President Donald Trump's leadership, his main focus was to limit immigration. He issued over 400 executive actions, which changed the immigration system in the United States. Trump's administration successfully reduced the number of legal immigrants...

www.theocimmigrationattorney.com

Donald Trump’s Team Takes First Steps To Cut Legal Immigration

Donald Trump reduced legal immigration in his first term, and his team has taken the first steps to do so again.

www.forbes.com

A five year old article followed by noting Trump stopped immigration because of a worldwide pandemic.

Hey on the topic, Republicans haven't proposed anything along the lines of the thread premise.

 

[RF667799]

I remember having this discussion on an internet chat site (not this one) years ago with "conservatives" (this was during the Bush Jr era, before their more virulent evolution into Tea Party or MAGA)- and even back then they were being very clear that they thought the poem was an obsolete idea, for back when only white people were coming to this country- but now it's time to take it down (presumably because the skin tone of the new immigrants really doesn't measure up as much).

When was this time when only white people were coming to this country?

 

[Parrish]

Those longing to be free have a reverence for their first sighting of the Statue of Liberty. It seems wasted on some home borne citizens and those who have forgotten where they came from. My life, and my children and their children's lives would be quite different if not for immigration.

 

[maxparrish]

Seems pretty incompatible with your views on immigration and American greatness. Would you support removing the poem?

“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

We can keep the statue as is, as a historical reminder of the time when we welcomed immigrants during America's still-formative years and needed people to help build our infastructure. Times have changed. We do not need nearly as many, and especially not the "wretched refuse".

The statue of liberty was erected in 1886, the population of the United States was 63,000,000 in 1890. The density of population in the continental US was FIVE TIMES less than today. l

My home State of California in 1890 had a population of 1.2 million. Today it has a population of 40 million. In other words, California was Thirty-three (33) less dense than today.

I don't buy into the bull excrement of "its still never enough population" fanaticism, it amounting to packing people into confined borders and then demanding provision of more social services, more infrastructure, more industrialization, more freeways, more traffic congestion, more housing AND more air pollution while having fewer farms, fewer nature areas, less vacant lands, desirable and safe places to live.

The Statue of Liberty and the plaque that was added much later reflected an era long past. The frontier "closed" in 1890, and between then and WW1 the bulk of mass immigration flooded America, along with an equally prolific child birthing of heritage Americans. By 1920 there was 106,000,000 Americans.

And, I would remind those less familiar with history, this era of mass immigration was also one of plunging wages, much harsher working conditions, extreme labor violence, and over 600,000 strikes - in part because so many foreign speaking newcomers flooded labor markets. Moreover, it was also the era of new organized crime that would flourish in immigrant communities and corrupt and terrorize much of urban America for the next 70 to 80 years.

So NO, its not never enough people, it's ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Now that we have 341 million people and if that many people still can't build a prosperous nation then its not a serious nation and doesn't need more.

And if more people made a nation rich, then India should have been light years ahead of America because if it (and Africa) are very rich in people - or something is wrong with the "its never enough" doctrine - right?

Anyway, the plaque is a nostalgic and romantic sentiment to an era no longer relevant to our wants today or that we should be fostering today.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

We should take the entire statue down at this point.

If she ever turned around to look at what the country behind her has become, she would march back to France.

 

[BitterPill]

The statue of liberty was erected in 1886, the population of the United States was 63,000,000 in 1890. The density of population in the continental US was FIVE TIMES less than today. l

My home State of California in 1890 had a population of 1.2 million. Today it has a population of 40 million. In other words, California was Thirty-three (33) less dense than today.

I don't buy into the bull excrement of "its still never enough" fanaticism, be in packing people into borders and then demanding provision of more social services, more infrastructure, more industrialization, more freeways, more traffic congestion AND more air pollution while having fewer farms, fewer nature areas, less vacant lands, and less open space.

The Statue of Liberty and the plaque that was added much later reflected an era long past. The frontier "closed" in 1890, and between then and WW1 the bulk of mass immigration flooded America, along with an equally prolific child birthing of heritage Americans. By 1920 there was 106,000 Americans.

And, I would remind those less familiar with history, this era of mass immigration was also one of plunging wages, harsher working conditions, extreme labor violence, and over 600,000 strikes - in part because so many newcomers flooded labor markets. Moreover, it was also the era of the organized crime that would flourish in immigrant communities and corrupt and terrorize much of urban America for the next 70 to 80 years.

So NO, its not never enough, it's ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Now it is 341 million people and if that many people can't build a prosperous nation then its not a serious nation. And if more people made a nation rich, then India should have been light years ahead of America because if it (and Africa) rich in people - or something is wrong with "its never enough".

We need a Trump statue instead, gold plated with a good Trump poem.

I originally voted Yes, but after a brief existential struggle, I was forced to admit I am not conservative but much, much more: I am MAGA!

So I changed my vote to I am not a conservative: yes.

MAGA.

 

[nota bene]

Yes.

Wait, I changed my mind. No, we should keep it because it is the country's history. Good or bad, I don't think anything should be 'removed' if they are part of history.

Or sanitized either.

 

[Absentglare]

Or sanitized either.

Monuments are for elements we choose to celebrate. You would prevent others from exercising that choice.

Museums and history books can house unsanitary relics.

 

[Absentglare]

I mean...who would be stupid enough to believe that the statue of liberty poem means "throw out all laws and allow 20-40 million illegal immigrants to swarm your cities..."

The military folks are the ones swarming our cities, and we didn’t invite them.

 

[trixare4kids]

Monuments are for elements we choose to celebrate. You would prevent others from exercising that choice.

Museums and history books can house unsanitary relics.

I didn't get that from the poster's pov.
Care to expound on your point?

 

[trixare4kids]

The military folks are the ones swarming our cities, and we didn’t invite them.

You mean LE who are employed to keep the peace? I hope you're enjoying seeing LE doing their jobs tonight in the greater Los Angeles area.

 

[nota bene]

Monuments are for elements we choose to celebrate. You would prevent others from exercising that choice.

Museums and history books can house unsanitary relics.

Then down the memory hole they should go.

 

[ataraxia]

I don't buy into the bull excrement of "its still never enough population" fanaticism, it amounting to packing people into confined borders and then demanding provision of more social services, more infrastructure, more industrialization, more freeways, more traffic congestion, more housing AND more air pollution while having fewer farms, fewer nature areas, less vacant lands, desirable and safe places to live.

Yet your sentiments, and even your very wording, have been voiced since the very founding of this country- even before- when it was just a bunch of British colonies.

"What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?"
- Lyman Beecher, 1834

"The enormous influx of alien foreigners will in the end prove ruinous to American workingmen, by REDUCING THE WAGES OF LABOR to a standard that will drive them from the farms and workshops altogether."
- Opinion article in the Philadelphia Sun, 1854

"We demand the change of the national naturalization laws by the repeal of the act authorizing the naturalization of minors…We demand for the protection of our citizen laborers, prohibition of the importation of pauper labor, and the restriction of immigration…We protest against the gross negligence and laxity with which the Judiciary of our land administer the present naturalization laws, and against the practice naturalizing aliens."
- statement of principles of the American Protective Association, 1894

“Not a day passes but families are ruthlessly turned out to make room for foreign invaders. The rates are burdened with the education of thousands of foreign children.”
- William Evans Gordon, 1905

(See next post)

 

[ataraxia]

On German immigrants:

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion….

Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own nation… Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it… in short unless the stream of their importation be turned from this to the surrounding colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will so outnumber us, that all the advantages we have will not in my opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious.”
-Benjamin Franklin, 1750, on the large number of new German immigrants to Pennsylvania at the time.

On Irish immigrants:
“[T]hey steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.” —Edmund Spencer

"The judgement of God sent the calamity (Irish potato famine) to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people."
-Charles Trevelyan, head of administration for famine relief during the Great Irish famine

“The emigrants who land at New York, whether they remain in that city or come on in the interior, are not merely ignorant and poor—which might be their misfortune rather than their fault—but they are drunken, dirty, indolent, and riotous, so as to be the objects of dislike and fear to all in whose neighbourhood they congregate in large numbers.” —James Silk Buckingham

On Catholics:
I do not like the late Reappearance of the Jesuits. They have a General, now in Russia, in correspondence with the Jesuits in the U.S. who are more numerous than every body knows. Shall We not have Swarms of them here. In as many shapes and disguises as ever a King of Gypsies, Bamfield More Carew himself, assumed? In the shape of Printers, Editors, Writers School masters etc. If ever any Congregation of Men could merit, eternal Perdition on Earth and in Hell, it is this Company of Loiola [Ignatius Loyola -- Ed.]. Our System however of Religious Liberty must afford them an Assylum. But if they do not put the Purity of our Elections to a severe Tryal, it will be a Wonder."
-John Adams

"We should build a wall of brass around the country."
- John Jay, first chief justice of Supreme always Court, regarding “Catholic alien invaders”

On Poles:
The people of this country are too tolerant. There’s no other country in the world where they’d allow it... After all we built up this country and then we allow a lot of foreigners, the scum of Europe, the offscourings of Polish ghettos to come and run it for us.
– John Dos Passos, early 20th century novelist, on U.S. immigration policy

On Jews:
They are coming in such numbers and we are unable adequately to take care of them…It simply amounts to unrestricted and indiscriminate dumping into this country of people of every character and description…If there were in existence a ship that could hold three million human beings, then three million Jews of Poland would board to escape to America.
-Congressional hearing, 1920

On Chinese:
"Standing behind them are Christian employers of this land, who would rather import heathen willing to work for barely enough to sustain life than retain a brother Christian at a wage sufficient in to live as becomes a Christian. We do not want Opium or the Chinese who grow it."
- Terence Powderly, Irish-American labor leader, 1892

On Italians:
Now, what do we find in all our large cities? Entire sections containing a population incapable of understanding our institutions, with no comprehension of our national ideals, and for the most part incapable of speaking the English language. Foreign language information service gives evidence that many southern Europeans resent as an unjust discrimination the quota laws and represent America as showing race hatred and unmindful of its mission to the world. The reverse is true. America’s first duty is to those already within her own shores.
- Representative Grant Hudson, 1924

 

[Felis Leo]

MAGAs aren't conservatives.

I mean, aren't they? Most American conservatives are Trump supporters. The ones who are not I guess can be termed something else, but MAGA Republicans are the same politicians and their voters the same Republican voters who voted for Romney, McCain, George W. Bush, Bob Dole, George H.W. Bush and Reagan. The people did not change. What the were willing to accept certainly did.