Consenting Adults

[RamFel]

Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

That is my point. I agree. The only thing I disagree with is that it's natural. It's not.

 

[uptower]

Back when we had standards, the argument was that certain activities degrade society as a whole. Of course that ship has already sailed.

No, it sunk. Under the weight of its own hypocrisy. Nowadays consenting adults really can do what they ant with one another. Consenting means between the two of them: the rest of us don't have to agree because it doesn't concern us.

 

[calamity]

Unrepentant, consenting fornicators and adulterers can drop down into Hell when they die too (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8, etc.).

They make their own bed and destiny!

Is that the Christian position?

 

[Felis Leo]

Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

I presume you are mainly talking about sexual matters between consenting adults, Todzilla. But are you talking about any other form of social intercourse as well? For example, would you be okay with having certain employment laws (such as minimum wage laws or sexual harassment laws) done away with so long as the individuals consented to not held to them?

 

[Todzilla]

I presume you are mainly talking about sexual matters between consenting adults, Todzilla. But are you talking about any other form of social intercourse as well? For example, would you be okay with having certain employment laws (such as minimum wage laws or sexual harassment laws) done away with so long as the individuals consented to not held to them?

Good question. I did mean sexual matters, but I do have a libertarian streak that says fully consenting adults should be able to do what they want to as long as their behavior does no demonstrable harm to others. However, your example rubs me the wrong way for a number of reasons. If an employer is able to get an employee's consent to waive wage laws or harassment laws, i would argue that is not full and free consent. The relationship between employer and employee is complicated and not conducive to free consent.

 

[Joecool44]

Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

What happens if someone consents and then had buyer's remorse after the fact? Therein lies a problem.

 

[Todzilla]

What happens if someone consents and then had buyer's remorse after the fact? Therein lies a problem.

If the circumstances haven't strayed from those of the original agreement, then too bad. If I were to marry someone and commit to monogamy with them and then they decided they were in to polyamory, I wouldn't feel that I had betrayed my word if I decided to divorce.

What are some other examples that might be more of a gray area?

 

[Joecool44]

If the circumstances haven't strayed from those of the original agreement, then too bad. If I were to marry someone and commit to monogamy with them and then they decided they were in to polyamory, I wouldn't feel that I had betrayed my word if I decided to divorce.

What are some other examples that might be more of a gray area?

Yes, if someone gets accused of rape.

 

[Lursa]

What happens if someone consents and then had buyer's remorse after the fact? Therein lies a problem.

Adults are supposed to be capable of making good decisions and if not, then accepting the consequences of their actions. It's called personal responsibility.

 

[Joecool44]

Adults are supposed to be capable of making good decisions and if not, then accepting the consequences of their actions. It's called personal responsibility.

Woman has sex with a man. She later gets remorseful and accuses said man of rape. She decided she didn't consent. Kind of sounds like it could be right in line with the #metoo movement.

 

[Lursa]

Woman has sex with a man. She later gets remorseful and accuses said man of rape. She decided she didn't consent. Kind of sounds like it could be right in line with the #metoo movement.

So she lied? Hows that any different from the guy that promises to pull out...and then doesnt? It's wrong, but it's not unknown.

If you are worried about your partner...then maybe you dont know your partner well enough...and then you suffer the consequences of that.

 

[SDET]

So she lied? Hows that any different from the guy that promises to pull out...and then doesnt? It's wrong, but it's not unknown.

If you are worried about your partner...then maybe you dont know your partner well enough...and then you suffer the consequences of that.

I worry more about my kids being on the receiving end of that crap. The she lied is a premeditated scheme. The he didn't pull out was a split second lapse of impulse control. It's a world of difference.

 

[Lursa]

I worry more about my kids being on the receiving end of that crap. The she lied is a premeditated scheme. The he didn't pull out was a split second lapse of impulse control. It's a world of difference.

That's a BS assumption about the men. THey do it serially, it's not a last minute decision.

It's BS for women too, most probably get pissed off by something later and are reacting.

Both are wrong. Teach your sons to respect women and dont let them see adult males treating women like objects or pets and hopefully they will make better decisions about who they have sex with.

 

[Babykat]

Back when we had standards, the argument was that certain activities degrade society as a whole. Of course that ship has already sailed.

That is an argument made by the temperance movement. Which is a Christian organization for the most part. Any and all laws based on religious morals go directly against the 1st amendment. If you make a law based on religious morals you are forcing others to live by a religious idea that may go against your religious beliefs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[joko104]

Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

Advocating for voluntary cannibalism and selling one's own organs?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I agree with you. Unfortunately what I did was mention "incest", which is a type of sexual relationship that should be included along with heterosexual and homosexual relationships as far as allowable marriage. If we look at "marriage" in this way, we are asking the state to give us a license to have sex. If we believe in this concept, then towns should also be able to issue "dating certificates" in order for my girlfriend and I to have sex.

The core of a father /son "marriage" likely wouldn't be sexual, but merely take advantage of the civil benefits afforded married couples. The father has no one else, the son doesn't either, so they want those benefits. In other words, legal marriage is a dry set of civil benefits that any two (or three) people should be able to enter into, regardless of anything sexual.

Complete BS. The point of marriage (by the government) is legalities and sex isnt one of them.

 

[Babykat]

Unrepentant, consenting fornicators and adulterers can drop down into Hell when they die too (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8, etc.).

They make their own bed and destiny!

1 Corinthians 6:7-11
7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

This isn’t a verse about condemning these people. But more about how we are all these type of people and only through grace given by Jesus Christ can any be saved.

Rev 21:8
8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Once again who hasn’t lied or has immoral thoughts. Who can be saved.

I hate when corrupt people use my lords words to condemn people they don’t like. It is not for you to judge or try to force your will on others. Stop putting yourself in the place reserved for god alone the judge and king of all mankind. You know not what is in a persons heart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Logicman]

1 Corinthians 6:7-11
7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

This isn’t a verse about condemning these people. But more about how we are all these type of people and only through grace given by Jesus Christ can any be saved.

Rev 21:8
8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Once again who hasn’t lied or has immoral thoughts. Who can be saved.

I hate when corrupt people use my lords words to condemn people they don’t like. It is not for you to judge or try to force your will on others. Stop putting yourself in the place reserved for god alone the judge and king of all mankind. You know not what is in a persons heart.

Unless people repent of their sins they will perish (Jesus, Luke 13:3). Has the gay sex crowd repented and received Christ as their Savior? If not they are lost.

 

[Babykat]

Unless people repent of their sins they will perish (Jesus, Luke 13:3). Has the gay sex crowd repented and received Christ as their Savior? If not they are lost.

Luke 13:2-5
2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Do you think these are worse sinners then you. By the way it doesn’t say gay in that verse.

Deu 4:2
2Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

Prov 30:5,6
5“Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Like I said before stop putting yourself in gods place. Stop using is words to discriminate against his other children. And please stop adding to his words.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Logicman]

Luke 13:2-5
2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Do you think these are worse sinners then you. By the way it doesn’t say gay in that verse.

Deu 4:2
2Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

Prov 30:5,6
5“Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Like I said before stop putting yourself in gods place. Stop using is words to discriminate against his other children. And please stop adding to his words.

You trying to defend illicit gay sex sin? That's what the devil does.

And unless they and everyone else repents and receives Christ as their Savior, they will perish.

You don't like the truth, too bad.

 

[Babykat]

You trying to defend illicit gay sex sin? That's what the devil does.

And unless they and everyone else repents and receives Christ as their Savior, they will perish.

You don't like the truth, too bad.

I’m not arguing that it’s not a sin. By all rights it is according to the Bible and yes salvation can only be found through grace and repentance. What I’m arguing is that we all sin and one sin isn’t greater then the others. Plus it isn’t up to you to decide how others should live or be judged. Are you claiming that you don’t sin dally or that your sins aren’t as bad as anothers. Do you believe the Bible gives you the right to tell others how to live and if they follow your guidance are you willing to take responsibility for their salvation. He that is with out sin cast the first stone and note that the only person without sin choose to throw no stones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Logicman]

I’m not arguing that it’s not a sin. By all rights it is according to the Bible and yes salvation can only be found through grace and repentance. What I’m arguing is that we all sin and one sin isn’t greater then the others. Plus it isn’t up to you to decide how others should live or be judged. Are you claiming that you don’t sin dally or that your sins aren’t as bad as anothers. Do you believe the Bible gives you the right to tell others how to live and if they follow your guidance are you willing to take responsibility for their salvation. He that is with out sin cast the first stone and note that the only person without sin choose to throw no stones.

There's a big difference. There's a whole segment of the population that GLORIFIES their illicit lifestyles and crams it down the throats of children and others whom they want approval from. They sue bakers. They hire lawyers to sue the Boy Scouts, etc. They flaunt their sin like it's a virtue, and they have turned America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

I agree on principle but there is the problem of when one of those consenting adults is married. Adultery occurring between consenting adults injures a 3rd party. IMO consenting adults are ethically required to contain their behavior so as not to injure others.

 

[Babykat]

There's a big difference. There's a whole segment of the population that GLORIFIES their illicit lifestyles and crams it down the throats of children and others whom they want approval from. They sue bakers. They hire lawyers to sue the Boy Scouts, etc. They flaunt their sin like it's a virtue, and they have turned America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Do you believe that they choice it. Let me ask you a question. Did you have to learn to be attracted to the opposite sex or did it come naturally, almost uncontrollably. If you being heterosexual had little to no control over being attracted to the opposite sex. Isn’t it possible these people you hate so much had little to no control over who they are attracted to. What about naturally born intersex (hermaphrodites) people. Are they born damned. They where born that way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Logicman]

Do you believe that they choice it. Let me ask you a question. Did you have to learn to be attracted to the opposite sex or did it come naturally, almost uncontrollably. If you being heterosexual had little to no control over being attracted to the opposite sex. Isn’t it possible these people you hate so much had little to no control over who they are attracted to. What about naturally born intersex (hermaphrodites) people. Are they born damned. They where born that way.

There are no excuses.

Gay sex, fornication, adultery, etc., are deliberate behaviors. They have to think and drop trou before they copulate. The Holy Spirit can change them. That's their ticket.