• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Consenting Adults

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.
The feminists and their partners the government have vetoed that idea.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
23,622
Reaction score
11,033
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Proving consent is the tricky part.
 

OlNate

Shameless Canuck
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
20,496
Reaction score
11,760
Location
Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The feminists and their partners the government have vetoed that idea.

lol...heya, Hawk, long time, bud. Just wanted to check to make sure I'm reading this right. I'd never have guessed that Trump and the feminist are in cahoots. ;)
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
23,622
Reaction score
11,033
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
lol...heya, Hawk, long time, bud. Just wanted to check to make sure I'm reading this right. I'd never have guessed that Trump and the feminist are in cahoots. ;)

Letting famous people grope you instills empowerment.
 

SDET

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
7,802
Reaction score
1,608
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

Back when we had standards, the argument was that certain activities degrade society as a whole. Of course that ship has already sailed.
 

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Back when we had standards, the argument was that certain activities degrade society as a whole. Of course that ship has already sailed.

Do you believe that villifying homosexuality is healthy for society as a whole?
 

DH Kirkwood

Banned
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
664
Location
Missouri
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
That's such a vague and ****ty standard. I don't know why we just don't forgo reason and go back to doing that! Also, segration then, segreation now, and segregation forever!
 

Lursa

Implacable
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
83,434
Reaction score
46,307
Location
Outside Seattle
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
The feminists and their partners the government have vetoed that idea.

That's BS. Esp since feminists tend to be liberal and support social tolerance.
 

Rickeroo

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
2,554
Reaction score
643
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Why is that legal and moral concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

One or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other. They don't need my permission or that of anyone else.

I agree, especially with incest among consenting adults. Father and son denied the ability to "marry" is discrimination of sexual orientation. At the very least, state marriage is imposing its concept of sexual compatibility in order for two people to enjoy the civil privileges of what we call "state marriage".

What the state defines as sexual compatibility should have nothing to do with the endowment of state "marital" benefits.
 

SDET

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
7,802
Reaction score
1,608
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right

Phys251

Anti-vax rhetoric threatens our liberty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
42,071
Reaction score
24,290
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Some people are struggling with a very simple OP.
 

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I agree, especially with incest among consenting adults. Father and son denied the ability to "marry" is discrimination of sexual orientation. At the very least, state marriage is imposing its concept of sexual compatibility in order for two people to enjoy the civil privileges of what we call "state marriage".

What the state defines as sexual compatibility should have nothing to do with the endowment of state "marital" benefits.

If the son is over 18 and is fully consenting, why is it your or my business?
 

Keridan

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
4,184
Reaction score
2,151
Location
Raleigh NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
If the son is over 18 and is fully consenting, why is it your or my business?

This one specific example is troubling to me. Theoretically, the father has held some power over the son for at least 18 years and could have caused all kinds of mental issues making the consent shady at best.

I personally feel marriage should have no definition of gender, age (assuming adults), race, etc. I don't know that the state should be encouraging any marriage, but whatever rules or rewards it applies should be done equally.

Opening it to absolutely anything is a bit troublesome for me, however. There is no great way to judge mental capacities in some situations.
 

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
This one specific example is troubling to me. Theoretically, the father has held some power over the son for at least 18 years and could have caused all kinds of mental issues making the consent shady at best.

I personally feel marriage should have no definition of gender, age (assuming adults), race, etc. I don't know that the state should be encouraging any marriage, but whatever rules or rewards it applies should be done equally.

Opening it to absolutely anything is a bit troublesome for me, however. There is no great way to judge mental capacities in some situations.

What you are saying has some merit, in my mind. My calculus would still be centered around whether or not the son was truly consenting, given the power the father could have over him. So, I stand by my point, but take yours as valid as well.
 

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
How can we be so sure that it's fully consenting? Does a father hold any influence at all over their children?

That's a valid point. Consent can have gray areas, such as your example. If it's not fully consenting for reasons of influence, then yeah, I have a problem with it. Then again, if someone is in a marriage that has a legal contract behind it and the circumstances of the marriage change in ways that couldn't be foreseen, is it still a fully consenting relationship? Thinking of Melania here.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
53,134
Reaction score
10,795
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That's a valid point. Consent can have gray areas, such as your example. If it's not fully consenting for reasons of influence, then yeah, I have a problem with it.
I would argue that a father-son relationship would always have that unless the two Were strangers who met by happenstance.

Then again, if someone is in a marriage that has a legal contract behind it and the circumstances of the marriage change in ways that couldn't be foreseen, is it still a fully consenting relationship? Thinking of Melania here.
Yes because marriage is a choice you make everyday. Have you ever heard of the marriage is not working out?
 

Rickeroo

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
2,554
Reaction score
643
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
If the son is over 18 and is fully consenting, why is it your or my business?

I agree with you. Unfortunately what I did was mention "incest", which is a type of sexual relationship that should be included along with heterosexual and homosexual relationships as far as allowable marriage. If we look at "marriage" in this way, we are asking the state to give us a license to have sex. If we believe in this concept, then towns should also be able to issue "dating certificates" in order for my girlfriend and I to have sex.

The core of a father /son "marriage" likely wouldn't be sexual, but merely take advantage of the civil benefits afforded married couples. The father has no one else, the son doesn't either, so they want those benefits. In other words, legal marriage is a dry set of civil benefits that any two (or three) people should be able to enter into, regardless of anything sexual.
 

Todzilla

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
147
Reaction score
85
Location
In the woods
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I would argue that a father-son relationship would always have that unless the two Were strangers who met by happenstance.
Well, I would consider it a gray area, but I see your point.

Yes because marriage is a choice you make everyday. Have you ever heard of the marriage is not working out?
I have more than heard of it. In many cases consent is unambiguous. But I've known of marriages that had gray areas (not mine).
 
Top Bottom