Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns [W:100] (1 Viewer)

[George50]

The Senate voted Wednesday to join the House in revoking the rule. It would have required the Social Security Administration to add about 75,000 people, currently on disability support, to the national background check database and deny them gun purchases. These individuals suffer schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and other problems to such an extent that they are unable to manage their financial affairs and other basic tasks without help.

Glad to see we aren't going to keep the mentally ill from buying guns!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you familiar with what this decision is all about or did you just happen to pluck an article from the internet because it had flashy headline? Are you aware that the headline is a bald faced lie?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you familiar with what this decision is all about or did you just happen to pluck an article from the internet because it had flashy headline? Are you aware that the headline is a bald faced lie?

I'll go with the latter...

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Glad to see we aren't going to keep the mentally ill from buying guns!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

This has everything to do with HIPPA and confidentiality and virtually NOTHING to do with Congress wanting the mentally ill to own guns.

 

[apdst]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Glad to see we aren't going to keep the mentally ill from buying guns!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

Actually, what they did was uphold the civil rights of American citizens; primarily the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments. Yeah...yeah...I know, The Constitution is only for when y'all agree with it, any time else, it's toilet paper.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Didja hear that Donald Trump won't let dead people buy guns either??? The freakin' NERVE of him! Dead people have rights too!!!

Even though it was Congress, I'm sure this won't stop some folks from sticking this on Trump too.

 

[George50]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you familiar with what this decision is all about or did you just happen to pluck an article from the internet because it had flashy headline? Are you aware that the headline is a bald faced lie?

Are you saying that "These individuals suffer schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and other problems to such an extent that they are unable to manage their financial affairs and other basic tasks without help." is not true? Perhaps so, but I've not seen that reported. I saw this before when the House passed it. Can you enlighten us on the actual situation?

 

[George50]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

This has everything to do with HIPPA and confidentiality and virtually NOTHING to do with Congress wanting the mentally ill to own guns.

Are you saying it has been determined that this is a HIPPA violation?

 

[rocket88]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Didja hear that Donald Trump won't let dead people buy guns either??? The freakin' NERVE of him! Dead people have rights too!!!

Even though it was Congress, I'm sure this won't stop some folks from sticking this on Trump too.

When it passes and Trump signs it, it is on him.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you saying it has been determined that this is a HIPPA violation?

Do you know the difference between a medical stated, administrative condition and a legally adjudicated one?

Simply, if they need to go on the background check list, it needs to happen through a court of law and not through social security administration doctors and government regulation.

Due process and all that.

 

[Thumper]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Do you know the difference between a medical stated, administrative condition and a legally adjudicated one?

Simply, if they need to go on the background check list, it needs to happen through a court of law and not through social security administration doctors and government regulation.

Due process and all that.

They only care about that pesky due process thingy when it benifits them or their ideals.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you saying it has been determined that this is a HIPPA violation?

I'm saying their reasoning was not that the mentally ill ought to be able to buy guns. Their reasoning was that SS should not be reporting guardianships as that by itself doesn't mean someone is mentally ill.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

They only care about that pesky due process thingy when it benifits them or their ideals.

And apparently so do you.

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you saying that "These individuals suffer schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and other problems to such an extent that they are unable to manage their financial affairs and other basic tasks without help." is not true? Perhaps so, but I've not seen that reported. I saw this before when the House passed it. Can you enlighten us on the actual situation?

Much like the attempt to pass the "No Fly List" ban, this bill did not provide for due process when someone was liable for having certain of their rights restricted or revoked.

The current law is that, for a mental health prohibition on owning or possessing firearms, a person must be adjudicated as a mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution. The key word in that is "adjudicated". It means that the person must have had the opportunity to contest the determination. Simply being put on a list by some bureaucrat in some cubicle somewhere does not afford the individual such an opportunity. Furthermore, if the individual in question is mentally defective there is already a mechanism in place to have them listed as a "prohibited person".

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Simply, if they need to go on the background check list, it needs to happen through a court of law and not through social security administration doctors and government regulation.

Meanwhile, courts are completely clogged due to constant underfunding and 8 years of Republican obstructionism of appointees. I'm sure they have plenty of room to have trial proceedings over whether someone can get a gun permit.



I know some worship guns, but I do have to point out that in just about every other instance involving issuance of a license, it's on the person denied the license to bring it to court. Not always fair, but it's insane to expect every single permit to be adjudicated in court. I'm not sure why, but people seem to expect full due process on the cheap. Doesn't work like that.

 

[apdst]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Meanwhile, courts are completely clogged due to constant underfunding and 8 years of Republican obstructionism of appointees..... I'm sure they have plenty of room to have trial proceedings over whether someone can get a gun permit. I know some worship guns, but I do have to point out that in just about every other instance involving issuance of a license, it's on the person denied the license to bring it to court. Not always fair, but it's insane to expect every single permit to be adjudicated in court.

In most places a trial isn't required to practice one's civil rights.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

I would have liked it if it said mentally ill people can own a gun. :shrug:

 

[Thumper]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

And apparently so do you.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

 

[Thumper]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Meanwhile, courts are completely clogged due to constant underfunding and 8 years of Republican obstructionism of appointees. I'm sure they have plenty of room to have trial proceedings over whether someone can get a gun permit.



I know some worship guns, but I do have to point out that in just about every other instance involving issuance of a license, it's on the person denied the license to bring it to court. Not always fair, but it's insane to expect every single permit to be adjudicated in court. I'm not sure why, but people seem to expect full due process on the cheap. Doesn't work like that.

Not the way it works.

If a person is so mentally ill that they are a danger to themselves or others they do not need to be in the process of getting a license or permit to be adjuicated.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Meanwhile, courts are completely clogged due to constant underfunding and 8 years of Republican obstructionism of appointees. I'm sure they have plenty of room to have trial proceedings over whether someone can get a gun permit.



I know some worship guns, but I do have to point out that in just about every other instance involving issuance of a license, it's on the person denied the license to bring it to court. Not always fair, but it's insane to expect every single permit to be adjudicated in court. I'm not sure why, but people seem to expect full due process on the cheap. Doesn't work like that.

If you want to violate someone's civil rights, it shouldn't be easy unless they are consenting to such. I don't expect due process to be cheap, I expect taking away rights should cost something. It keeps the government from doing so in large groups. Its a feature, not a bug.

 

[jet57]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Glad to see we aren't going to keep the mentally ill from buying guns!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

Well, this only means that the gun crowd is going to have to walk back their BS that people are the problem: not anymore...guns are.

 

[jet57]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you familiar with what this decision is all about or did you just happen to pluck an article from the internet because it had flashy headline? Are you aware that the headline is a bald faced lie?

Perhaps you should enlighten us; why will these people be able to buy guns?

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Glad to see we aren't going to keep the mentally ill from buying guns!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

Why do you think the mentally ill and disabled should be arbitrarily stripped of their rights?

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Are you familiar with what this decision is all about or did you just happen to pluck an article from the internet because it had flashy headline? Are you aware that the headline is a bald faced lie?

How so?

 

[MACS-24]

Re: Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

Well, this only means that the gun crowd is going to have to walk back their BS that people are the problem: not anymore...guns are.

No. People are still the problem. In this case the poorly worded and ill conceived bill these people put together.