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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468] (1 Viewer)

Re: Most would blame Republicans

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Elaborate
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The reason Republicans would more be blamed is more people watch pro-Democrat networks. It is the Democrats in the US Senate, not Republicans, threatening to shut down government unless they get everything they want in the budget. The budget ceiling is the law. Democrats in the Senate declare they will destroy the economy unless Republicans go along with breaking that law.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

We have a government which is driven by blame rather than common sense. Single term limits would clear a lot of that up.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The reason Republicans would more be blamed is more people watch pro-Democrat networks.

Now, wait a minute. Wasn't it just a few months ago conservatives were boasting that the Fox News channels have the HIGHEST ratings than all the other left networks combined? Sorry, but I think that is is complete BS that you blame the media.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Actually aside from the narrative, (which is false btw) the polls I have seen have it pretty even, more along the lines of 36% blame republicans, 32% blame Democrats, and 17% blame Obama himself....

Personally, I think that republicans do indeed share in the blame, but you can't put it all on them when people want compromise, house republicans do exactly that, and demo's come back with 'NO, our way, or nothing, and we will lie and blame you for it....!'
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans


This is not surprising. The differences have nothing to do with fiscal matters e.g., level of spending. The differences are a matter of ideology and philosophy, not fiscal details. Although the House technically passed a bill to keep the government running, that legislation contained several "poison pills" that the House knows that neither the Senate nor President can accept. Those who have been paying attention to the situation see the entire context: in effect, the House's bill is a vote for shutdown given its knowledge of what the Senate and President can and cannot accept. If a prolonged shutdown occurs, more people will examine what happened and media coverage will be intense. An increasing share of the blame will fall on the GOP and under that pressure, the more rational GOP representatives will find it easier to break from their Tea Party colleagues. Once that happens, the Tea Party's ability to effectively coerce compliance with its agenda and extreme tactics--and shutting down the government and threatening to force the nation into default by not raising the debt ceiling over a philosophical difference is extreme--will be substantially reduced. Nevertheless, damage to the GOP could last for multiple election cycles, making it more difficult for the GOP to contribute in areas where it could.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Actually aside from the narrative, (which is false btw) the polls I have seen have it pretty even, more along the lines of 36% blame republicans, 32% blame Democrats, and 17% blame Obama himself....

Personally, I think that republicans do indeed share in the blame, but you can't put it all on them when people want compromise, house republicans do exactly that, and demo's come back with 'NO, our way, or nothing, and we will lie and blame you for it....!'

From the posted article:

According to the poll, which was conducted Friday through Sunday, 46% say they would blame congressional Republicans for a government shutdown, with 36% saying the president would be more responsible and 13% pointing fingers at both the GOP in Congress and Obama.

Right now, the gap is not that large. But that will likely change if there is a prolonged shutdown and especially if the nation is forced into a debt default and/or recession if debt payments are prioritized due to the debt ceiling's not being raised.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Personally, I think that republicans do indeed share in the blame, but you can't put it all on them when people want compromise, house republicans do exactly that, and demo's come back with 'NO, our way, or nothing, and we will lie and blame you for it....!'

The compromise the right is proposing is to get rid of Obamacare, that isn't a compromise for the Dems. The GOP is wanting the Dems to cut their signature bill. It would be the equivalent of the Dems going, you need to cut the military by 75%. It just isn't going to happen that way and that's why it is looked at the right not compromising.

If the GOP really wants to get rid of Obamacare, they are going to have to wait till 2014 and focus on winning the senate and keeping the house. Anything less than that and the GOP is going to get blamed.

If the GOP were willing to compromise, they would look outside of Obamacare and look for cuts on the Dems side of the house to attack. Attacking a primary bill the president and the Dems support isn't going to work.

If the GOP lets Obamacare go, let's the Dems take FULL ownership of it without GOP support at all, They will probably win the senate, keep the house, and get the presidency in 2016.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

From the posted article:

According to the poll, which was conducted Friday through Sunday, 46% say they would blame congressional Republicans for a government shutdown, with 36% saying the president would be more responsible and 13% pointing fingers at both the GOP in Congress and Obama.

Right now, the gap is not that large. But that will likely change if there is a prolonged shutdown and especially if the nation is forced into a debt default and/or recession if debt payments are prioritized due to the debt ceiling's not being raised.

I just love the way MSM, Obama cover artists write their stories right? I mean if you take their numbers at face value without seeing the internals they are reporting 46% repubs, and 36% Obama, along with another 13% blaming both. So they throw out the 13% that include Obama in their blame, and make it look like sentiment is against the repubs on this....

Look, according to CNN's own polling done early Sept on a range of issues

Obama's handling of the:

economy in general = 56% disapprove
Federal budget deficit = 61% disapprove
Health care = 55% disapprove

and people say the economy is by far the most important issue facing the country today outweighing health care by 25 points. So, the take away for me anyway is that Obama is stinking up the joint at doing his job, and although people don't want to see a govt shutdown over Obamacare, Obama is not done his job in making sure this turd of a law is clear either...

Here are the internals of the poll I looked at:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/11/rel8g.pdf

There are a couple of things that I think if this is protracted that demo's have a problem with, 1. republicans ARE trying to negotiate, and compromise, and all demo's are doing is calling names and distorting things....Although no one is going to come out of this looking good, it is just not factual to try and make it appear as though repubs will bear the entire blame in this.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The compromise the right is proposing is to get rid of Obamacare, that isn't a compromise for the Dems. The GOP is wanting the Dems to cut their signature bill. It would be the equivalent of the Dems going, you need to cut the military by 75%. It just isn't going to happen that way and that's why it is looked at the right not compromising.

If the GOP really wants to get rid of Obamacare, they are going to have to wait till 2014 and focus on winning the senate and keeping the house. Anything less than that and the GOP is going to get blamed.

If the GOP were willing to compromise, they would look outside of Obamacare and look for cuts on the Dems side of the house to attack. Attacking a primary bill the president and the Dems support isn't going to work.

If the GOP lets Obamacare go, let's the Dems take FULL ownership of it without GOP support at all, They will probably win the senate, keep the house, and get the presidency in 2016.

I know that is the narrative that the demo's want to put forward, but it really requires the suspension of disbelief to even believe that.

Look, The first proposal sent over to defund Obamacare was shot down and everyone knew that would be the case, and if the repubs were sticking to that, I would understand your talking points here, but that isn't what happened. The CR went back to the house, and the house softened their approach, and said no longer was defunding on the table, but a delay instead, along with something that a bi partisan majority agree with, and that is repealing the Med device tax out of the law. What was Harry Reid's response? a flat NO! No compromise, not even consideration. Yet, saying that repubs need to compromise....What the hell is that? Does Harry Reid really think that the term compromise means that repubs have to totally cave and just rubber stamp what he and Obama want? We don't have a dictatorship do we?

Nah, I think that the repubs HAVE put forth a compromise, and now it is up to demos to give something up, THAT'S how it works!
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The reason Republicans would more be blamed is more people watch pro-Democrat networks. It is the Democrats in the US Senate, not Republicans, threatening to shut down government unless they get everything they want in the budget. The budget ceiling is the law. Democrats in the Senate declare they will destroy the economy unless Republicans go along with breaking that law.

Since Fox News is the leading political news network by far your comparison is not accurate.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

I mean if you take their numbers at face value without seeing the internals they are reporting 46% repubs, and 36% Obama, along with another 13% blaming both. So they throw out the 13% that include Obama in their blame, and make it look like sentiment is against the repubs on this....

I agree that the language could and should be more precise.

Look, according to CNN's own polling done early Sept on a range of issues

Obama's handling of the:

economy in general = 56% disapprove
Federal budget deficit = 61% disapprove
Health care = 55% disapprove

No disagreements on that data. My view is that the U.S. could and should be doing better. Part of the problem lies with political stalemate, but part also lies with a period of abnormally weak leadership (both Congressional and Presidential).

There are a couple of things that I think if this is protracted that demo's have a problem with, 1. republicans ARE trying to negotiate, and compromise, and all demo's are doing is calling names and distorting things....Although no one is going to come out of this looking good, it is just not factual to try and make it appear as though repubs will bear the entire blame in this.

It really would depend on what compromises are offered. If items related to fiscal spending limits are offered, my guess is that the Senate and President would find it difficult to avoid considering those items. Then, the sacrifices required to end the shutdown or avert a debt default would be small relative to the costs of failing to agree to the compromise. Of course, that would likely invite future challenges via the debt ceiling and continuing resolutions. In terms of public sentiment, the general public would probably accept some modest reductions in spending in return for ending a shutdown and avoiding a debt default. If those compromises are offered early, then the GOP would probably be in its strongest position vis-à-vis public opinion. If, however, the modest reductions are offered after a long shutdown, the public would likely welcome the end of the shutdown but the "gains" won by the GOP would be small relative to what happened, so the GOP probably would not benefit.

If, however, the focus remains on the Affordable Care Act (ACA), which is a policy and ideological difference, I don't think that will be the case, even as the ACA is deeply unpopular in the polls. The ACA dispute is the result of longstanding and fundamental differences that cannot easily be overcome. Hence, linking the continuing resolution or raising the debt ceiling to the ACA is almost certainly not a winning strategy.

I could be wrong, but we'll see. Typically, such linkage only produces failure in achieving the desired goals due to the basic nature of the differences and the only thing that remains are the high costs from the battle that took place. Responsibility for those costs usually winds up largely being placed on those who launched the battle. Already, GOP-friendly interests ranging from The Wall Street Journal to the Chamber of Commerce have warned the GOP about the perils of its current strategy.

In the end, if the shutdown winds up of sufficient length to materially impact the economy or if the debt ceiling is not raised in a timely fashion leading to a possibly significant recession (even if the government meets its debt obligations, something I thing would be the case), those could be the kind of developments that bring an end to the GOP majority in the House and cause the GOP to lose seats in the Senate. Then, the GOP would find itself in a position of reduced influence in the policy debate and that reduction in influence would be largely self-inflicted.

IMO, the risks of the current strategy outweigh the possible benefits. Neither the continuing resolution nor debt ceiling legislation should be used as mechanisms to try to impose goals that are largely matters of basic philosophical and ideological differences. The normal legislative process and election campaigns are the proper venue for waging such battles.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

I know that is the narrative that the demo's want to put forward, but it really requires the suspension of disbelief to even believe that.

Look, The first proposal sent over to defund Obamacare was shot down and everyone knew that would be the case, and if the repubs were sticking to that, I would understand your talking points here, but that isn't what happened. The CR went back to the house, and the house softened their approach, and said no longer was defunding on the table, but a delay instead, along with something that a bi partisan majority agree with, and that is repealing the Med device tax out of the law. What was Harry Reid's response? a flat NO! No compromise, not even consideration. Yet, saying that repubs need to compromise....What the hell is that? Does Harry Reid really think that the term compromise means that repubs have to totally cave and just rubber stamp what he and Obama want? We don't have a dictatorship do we?

Nah, I think that the repubs HAVE put forth a compromise, and now it is up to demos to give something up, THAT'S how it works!

The Dems are not going to compromise on OBamacare, their signature bill. You know this right? so why do the GOP continue to try and put that on the table? The GOP should be looking for OTHER cuts on the Dems side of the house and stick it to the Dems when Obamacare is implemented. Sorry but their so called "soft stance" is not a soft stance at all. When the GOP gain control on the house and senate, THEN is the time to attack OBamacare. Right now is not the time when you're holding people's jobs hostage.

I don't think the GOP should be compromising at all on their side of the house with their stuff. They should be looking ata other cuts and if the Dems REALLY want to keep Obamacare, the Dems are going to have to compromise on something else. Either way, put it on the Dems then.

I'm not saying "I" think the GOP is all to blame, however, I think the GOP will be blamed for trying to attack a bill they know the Dems won't give up. The GOP is wasting people's time and the people see this.

IMO, Both sides are to blame for the situation we are in and BOTH sides are acting like idiots. However, my perception is not the reality that most will think and I do think blame will ultimately be placed on the GOP for the sutdown.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Would you negotiate with someone that's asking for you to give them your arm and they'll give you a handshake? Of course not. What Republicans are asking for is not reasonable.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The Dems are not going to compromise on OBamacare, their signature bill. You know this right? so why do the GOP continue to try and put that on the table? The GOP should be looking for OTHER cuts on the Dems side of the house and stick it to the Dems when Obamacare is implemented. Sorry but their so called "soft stance" is not a soft stance at all. When the GOP gain control on the house and senate, THEN is the time to attack OBamacare. Right now is not the time when you're holding people's jobs hostage.

Then the demo's, Obama, and Reid, and co. bear the brunt of blame in the shutdown. And further are absolutely LYING when it comes to who won't compromise.

I don't think the GOP should be compromising at all on their side of the house with their stuff. They should be looking ata other cuts and if the Dems REALLY want to keep Obamacare, the Dems are going to have to compromise on something else. Either way, put it on the Dems then.

This is like saying that you know a storm is coming but go ahead and stay put because everything will be ok, yet when it happens and everything is destroyed, you get to throw up your hands and say "ah well, I thought it would be ok".....Meanwhile a life is destroyed.

I'm not saying "I" think the GOP is all to blame, however, I think the GOP will be blamed for trying to attack a bill they know the Dems won't give up. The GOP is wasting people's time and the people see this.

So then the truth is that it is the demo's holding the GOP and America hostage over a temper tantrum.

IMO, Both sides are to blame for the situation we are in and BOTH sides are acting like idiots. However, my perception is not the reality that most will think and I do think blame will ultimately be placed on the GOP for the sutdown.

Well, I agree, your perception is not the reality.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Would you negotiate with someone that's asking for you to give them your arm and they'll give you a handshake? Of course not. What Republicans are asking for is not reasonable.

Why not? a delay? what's wrong with that?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

We have a government which is driven by blame rather than common sense. Single term limits would clear a lot of that up.

Single term limits would only rob Congress of institutional knowledge and insure collective ignorance. The way to cure the ills of the system is to get rid of gerrymandered districts where the vast majority of representatives really have no general election and the other voters from the opposite party have no power to influence anything.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

I blame the electorate and others who don't bothrer to vote. We continue to re elect the same people, both parties, that get us in these messes. Then we act suprised or angry that they happen. BTW, if non essential jobs are going to shut down why do we have them in the first place?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Why not? a delay? what's wrong with that?

Let me guess...... next year another delay? :doh And after that? Ray Charles can see this coming a mile away and he is both dead and blind. :roll:
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans


I haven't looked past the OP yet but I wouldn't be surprised if some people called into question the scientific accuracy of this poll since after all this is a CNN poll. Many people operate from a premise that poll data is inaccurate and is skewed by the perceived biases of the organization that conducts the poll. In the case of CNN because they're not a conservative activist media outlet and as such have been assigned the label "left-wing media." :lamo

I acknowledge that might happen some of the time but when it does that organization has chosen to flush its credibility down the toilet. When it happens, the level of disappointment I have cannot be expressed and I consider such organizations to be bold-faced liars never to be trusted again. Almost as disappointing is the culture of expectation many people have that the purpose of a scientific poll is to affirm the support for a particular issue or candidate and you can tell in advance what the polling results will be by seeing who conducted the poll. In their thinking accuracy is irrelevant as long as its close. What counts in supposed "scientific polls" in their thinking is affirming the positions of their core audience.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Why not? a delay? what's wrong with that?

The healt care bill should not be a bargaining chip used in a debate over funding the government.

What I don't understand is why republicans are so insistent on killing the affordable care act, why not try to improve it legislatively?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Why not? a delay? what's wrong with that?

Obamacare will reduce the deficit. I thought Conservatives wanted deficit reduction. Now you want to delay reducing the deficit?
CBO: Repealing Obama healthcare law will increase budget deficit - The Hill's Floor Action
The House last voted for full repeal in July 2012 following the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the healthcare law.
That month, the nonpartisan CBO said that eliminating the law's expensive coverage provisions would be more than offset by repealing its taxes, fees and Medicare cuts, resulting in a deficit increase.
Elmendorf returned to this analysis Wednesday in his letter to Ryan. He guessed that savings from repealing the law's healthcare benefits would be somewhat higher than before, but that the cost of repealing its revenue provisions would also be higher.
Recently, the CBO reported an overall decrease in the budget deficit that House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) attributed to healthcare reform.
The office also said yesterday that the law's unpopular taxes and mandates will affect fewer people and businesses than previously thought. This will raise less revenue to fund the law and increase the net cost of its coverage provisions by $40 billion over 10 years, the CBO said.


Read more: CBO: Repealing Obama healthcare law will increase budget deficit - The Hill's Floor Action
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

There's currently no valid reason to delay it. At least no reason that can be supported by facts.
 

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