• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

I'm not a scientist, so it's not my analysis. :confused:

There's plenty out there to read. I'll send you some links if your interested.

I'd rather you explain it to me, or are you incapable of such?
 

Wow... great investigative reporting by CEI. I am swayed!!! :doh

Have they now admitted that it's all been a scam and everything they printed has all been a lie? And they did it all for grants, right? Are the all driving Porches? If they chose to deceive the world, what do you think was their collective (LOL) motive?
 
Nice omission of... ahem, 13 years. That's less than 100 per year. At my workplace, I get about 40-50 a day, and I'm not really that important.
Since nobody has claimed that they have access to 13 years worth of emails, your point is? So tell me Middleground, do you grasp that if a Senate investigation does in fact come about as a result of this (the first call for that, and let us face the fact one is inevitable, was made today to get to the bottom of this matter) that then you might get your wish? Namely 13 years worth of information may be subpoenaed? Because it seems to me that if you are so stead sure and it is all about the science you would WELCOME full disclosure on this matter and all AGW matters. Of course as you well know, secrecy not full disclosure of methodology and modeling, is the norm. Not exactly above board and my how that might be catching up to those who operate that way. I say good. I have some knowledge about records retention, and those requirements typically go back at least 15 years by law. So if say "other" scientist contacted in these emails and advised to destroy and delete anything related to study of the matter they are engaged in, followed the advise in these emails......do you think that is going to equate hunkey doey for the AGW argument? Seriously do tell. Because we are now getting into Enron level malfesance. I know I know, you no get it? Please tell me blue eyes, you are not going to act that obtuse again.

But why get ahead of ourselves? You can't bring yourself to the simple act of stating, wow this could be a bad thing. Hell you can't even bring yourself to the point where you can discern that mathematically speaking, a few does a not over a thousand make.:doh

But you are right, if that is the best you can come up with in your second act, it is not important at all. While acting obtuse might be appealing to you in this internet forum, for the sake of argument, we can be sure that such will not be the case in that little thing we call the real world. Ya know the real world, where this matter could have far reaching implications? Or have you been able to bring yourself to admit even that?

The real world where the policies based upon data coming from these scientist and their cohorts (whom they emailed and corresponded with, perhaps leaving those outside their originations also now open to the legal discovery process) is the basis for far reaching taxation and public policy. I understand that you are highly invested in the AGW theory, but does it really preclude your ability to practice ...just ...plain...common sense? Because your "13 year" argument is so shallow and self serving as to be laughable. So go ahead, do tell how that is not so. While you are working at your 13 year angle, go ahead and throw in all those AGW predictions and claims that....gosh darn it.....did not pan out in the last 13, 16 hell 20 years. You sure you want a rehash of the last 13 years? I and many others are all ears and eyes.
 
Last edited:
Wow... great investigative reporting by CEI. I am swayed!!! :doh

Have they now admitted that it's all been a scam and everything they printed has all been a lie? And they did it all for grants, right? Are the all driving Porches? If they chose to deceive the world, what do you think was their collective (LOL) motive?

You are in full denial mode aren't you?
 
It's not science... it's correspondence between people. Correspondence that was stolen from people that obviously have an agenda. Are you comfortable with the fact that this "evidence" has been presented without alteration? Are you comfortable in the knowledge that none of it was cherry picked and taken out of context? Do you not find it odd that only approximately 1000 emails have been retrieved in about 13 years?

Hmmmmm.....

Explain how, the finding of an email that discusses tricks to data, is somehow out of context?

You are either not including data because it is an outlier, subject to a test itself, or you are not including data, because it would not give you the result that you want.

The first is a legitimate statistical process, the second is fraud. Do we need to contextualize such blatant manipulation, that somehow the allegations of data manipulation are OK in SOME contexts?

Science is meant to be objective, and thus above context or subjective notions. You do not fudge data, merely because you wanted to get the work published, you don not fudge data to make sure that it conforms with past experiments, you do not fudge data because you have a head ache....

Secondly, the CRU has made no attempt to actually provide evidence of the context, all they are doing is using innuendo and implication to suggest that the 'cherry picked emails are fraudulent'.

If the CRU wanted to refute the claims, I am sure that they could report the matter to police and/or request the help of forensic IT experts.

But saying that, why do they need to do that? When they have thousands of apologists doing their handy work on the internet. The true believers will defend the wrongs of the priests.....
 
Last edited:
Explain how, the finding of an email that discusses tricks to data, is somehow out of context?

You are either not including data because it is an outlier, subject to a test itself, or you are not including data, because it would not give you the result that you want.

The first is a legitimate statistical process, the second is fraud. Do we need to contextualize such blatant manipulation, that somehow the allegations of data manipulation are OK in SOME contexts?

Science is meant to be objective, and thus above context or subjective notions. You do not fudge data, merely because you wanted to get the work published, you don not fudge data to make sure that it conforms with past experiments, you do not fudge data because you have a head ache....

Secondly, the CRU has made no attempt to actually provide evidence of the context, all they are doing is using innuendo and implication to suggest that the 'cherry picked emails are fraudulent'.

If the CRU wanted to refute the claims, I am sure that they could report the matter to police and/or request the help of forensic IT experts.

But saying that, why do they need to do that? When they have thousands of apologists doing their handy work on the internet. The true believers will defend the wrongs of the priests.....
By God man I like the cut of your jib!:mrgreen:
 
You DO realise don't you that the CRU and the Hadley centre are not the same?
You do realize at least some connection between the Hadley Centre and EMS and then owing to common sense, the CRU? Or is it truly your position that you don't quite "get" all of this? Last I checked AGW proponents were all about casual loops. Gee golly ain't ignorance of a sudden quite a bliss?
Why should he/she?

I really love those who sit back and DEMAND that others do work for them
As you have just demonstrated even when the work has been indexed for you, you prefer to sit back and make quack quack. :shock: But you are correct, why should you approach this matter with anything approaching an open and thoughtful mind? Aside from the fact that it jettisons your previous stance as a poster much to do about veracity and the scientific method? The natural thing to do when news about a possible corruption or failure of the same is to defend and argue "for" no serious examination of "it" rather than decry it. Chuckle.

Once again an AGW "Spock" argues in favor of the illogical. Bravo BB and crew, really booyahh!::golf
 
Last edited:
You DO realise don't you that the CRU and the Hadley centre are not the same?

You see, it is the CRU in play here.

The skeptics have seized upon e-mails stolen from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia in Britain as evidence that scientific data have been rigged to make it appear as if humans are causing global warming.

The posting of private data files from the Climatic Research Unit in England reveals the sleazy, unseemly side of a number of the leading scientific proponents of global warming alarmism, including CRU Director Phil Jones, Michael Mann, Ben Santer, and Kevin Trenberth.
 
A pale shadow now rests upon the scientific work of both those supporting the idea of AGW and those opposed to it. All research is now suspect. All claims are now unfounded.

All research had better come with it's data so that peer-review can validate it. The idea that the authors of scientific papers are NOT providing access to their data is criminal.

If it is found that data was modified, the authors should be stripped of their PhDs and tossed into the street.

I don't completely agree with your view here. Yes, there are probably some anti-AGW scientists who probably exagerate data that supports their claim and they might purposefully ignore some data against their cause. However, most who make the argument against AGW have a track record of fully documenting their analytical process (regardless if AGW believers say it's peer reviewed). AGW promoters constantly refuse to provide full data sets for analysis by "the enemy". Pick up an anti-AGW book and you find pages of footnotes. Pick up An Inconvenient Truth and you find pictures designed to evoke emotion and little text... few footnotes with the source.
 
I don't completely agree with your view here. Yes, there are probably some anti-AGW scientists who probably exagerate data that supports their claim and they might purposefully ignore some data against their cause. However, most who make the argument against AGW have a track record of fully documenting their analytical process (regardless if AGW believers say it's peer reviewed). AGW promoters constantly refuse to provide full data sets for analysis by "the enemy". Pick up an anti-AGW book and you find pages of footnotes. Pick up An Inconvenient Truth and you find pictures designed to evoke emotion and little text... few footnotes with the source.

The rule properly applies to both proponents and skeptics. If skeptics are already demonstrating the raw data they use, then they are doing the right thing. I had assumed that some skeptics were using CRU data.
 
Explain how, the finding of an email that discusses tricks to data, is somehow out of context?

Here are 2 examples:


From the hacked email:

Phil Jones writes to University of Hull to try to stop sceptic Sonia Boehmer Christiansen using her Hull affiliation. Graham F Haughton of Hull University says its easier to push greenery there now SB-C has retired.

Ok, seriously? Did you read the e-mails? Sonia Boehmer Christiansen, who is, it seems, a professor emeritus, sent out an e-mail in which she admitted that she isn't qualified to judge what she's talking about, but then went on to, evidently, support ClimateAudit, and use her status as a professor emeritus at the University of Hull to lend credibility to her arguments. This email was brought to the attention of Phil Jones, a climatologist. Jones was offended by the dishonesty of the content of the e-mail, and brought the matter up to Graham Haughton, a professor at the University of Hull, to inform him of the misrepresentation of the facts, inform him that SB-C is using her affiliation with University of Hull as a credibility prop, and state his opinion that "science should be undertaken through the peer-review literature as it has been for over 300 years. The peer-review system is the safeguard science has developed to stop bad science being published."

In short, he seems to be informing a colleague of the situation. He clearly feels that the original e-mail was inappropriate, and is questioning whether University of Hull wants to be associated with such things.

I seem to recall similar questions over William Dembski's use of his affiliation to Baylor University, when he used said affiliation to promote "intelligent design" (aka creationism).

Regardless, Haughton replies that he'll talk to her about it, but that she is technically entitled to use her title in such a manner.

Jones replies, saying he appreciates the reply, and commiserating with how busy they both are, and don't really have time to be dealing with nonscience, even if they feel obligated to do so. He then shares an observation regarding the journal that she is an editor for, is not regarded as a quality peer-reviewed journal (indeed, this is true; ISI's journal citation reports doesn't even list Energy and Environment, which would seem to indicate that it is not looked upon very well by others). He then comments that he's just venting frustration, and agrees that Haughton's reply is correct. Haughton's final reply mentions that SB-C, before her retirement, provided an 'ongoing critique of my motives and supposed misguidedness' with regards to Haughton's environmental interests (Haughton is a professor of Human Geography, so environmental concerns are not the only thing he could be primarily studying).

Does this really seem like such an outlandish and unreasonable discussion to you? I don't know what branch of theoretical physics you're in, or at what level, but you've never complained to someone else about how you feel that someone else is unfairly criticizing your research because of personal prejudices? Of course, the part where Jones complained about her use of her affiliation with University of Hull is unlikely to have any equivalents in your field, as I doubt there are professional (or retired) physicists who frequently comment in the sphere of public opinion rather than scientific discussion about how your (personally, your) research is completely backwards and accused you of dishonesty. And use their former affiliation with reputable universities to make their ignorant critique sound more informed.


From the hacked email:

Michael Mann discusses how to destroy a journal that has published sceptic papers

This is doubly untrue. His reason for opposing the journal isn't that they have 'published skeptic papers', as many prominent journals have, in fact (I believe Nature has published a few...), but that the papers they are publishing are not fit to pass peer review, and so the problem is their peer review process. Secondly, he doesn't advocate "destroying" the journal, but rather, as sometimes happens when journals become a venue for advocacy rather than science, that scientists stop recognizing it as a peer-reviewed journal. As a non-peer-reviewed journal, scientists would not cite articles from it or submit their articles to it as part of the scientific literature. Do you submit your articles to, or cite articles from, the International Journal for Creation Research?

Incidentally, the paper which prompted this e-mail, Proxy climatic and environmental changes of the past 1000 years (Soon and Baliunas, 2003), was horribly flawed, and indeed, never should have been published. Shortly after the publication, half of the editorial board of Climate Research resigned over the matter. One of those who resigned was the Von Storch mentioned in the email as a possible skeptic. Von Storch had just been promoted to Editor-in-Chief, and attempted to publish an editorial against the paper in question, the publisher, Otto Kinne, decided that the editorial could only be published with the consent of all of the editors of Climate Research (including the one who approved the Soon and Baliunas paper). The editorial would not be published, and Von Storch resigned a few days before his promotion from editor to the newly created position of editor-in-chief was to take effect.

Futhermore, 13 authors of papers cited in the Soon and Baliunas paper wrote a letter in which they criticized the paper on three main grounds: Soon and Baliunas used data reflective of changes in moisture, rather than temperature; they failed to distinguish between regional and hemispheric temperature anomalies; and they reconstructed past temperatures from proxy evidence not capable of resolving decadal trends.

When two other climatologists repeated the study, but without making the mistakes of Soon and Baliunas, they came to... let's just say, a rather different result. In short, peer-review at the journal Climate Research actually had failed badly, and Mann was, in fact, correct to come to the conclusion that he did.



Each "scandalous" email is dissected here:

Summary of notable emails from the CRU hacking scandal : science
 
Here are 2 examples:


From the hacked email:

Phil Jones writes to University of Hull to try to stop sceptic Sonia Boehmer Christiansen using her Hull affiliation. Graham F Haughton of Hull University says its easier to push greenery there now SB-C has retired.

Ok, seriously? Did you read the e-mails? Sonia Boehmer Christiansen, who is, it seems, a professor emeritus, sent out an e-mail in which she admitted that she isn't qualified to judge what she's talking about, but then went on to, evidently, support ClimateAudit, and use her status as a professor emeritus at the University of Hull to lend credibility to her arguments. This email was brought to the attention of Phil Jones, a climatologist. Jones was offended by the dishonesty of the content of the e-mail, and brought the matter up to Graham Haughton, a professor at the University of Hull, to inform him of the misrepresentation of the facts, inform him that SB-C is using her affiliation with University of Hull as a credibility prop, and state his opinion that "science should be undertaken through the peer-review literature as it has been for over 300 years. The peer-review system is the safeguard science has developed to stop bad science being published."

In short, he seems to be informing a colleague of the situation. He clearly feels that the original e-mail was inappropriate, and is questioning whether University of Hull wants to be associated with such things.

I seem to recall similar questions over William Dembski's use of his affiliation to Baylor University, when he used said affiliation to promote "intelligent design" (aka creationism).

Regardless, Haughton replies that he'll talk to her about it, but that she is technically entitled to use her title in such a manner.

Jones replies, saying he appreciates the reply, and commiserating with how busy they both are, and don't really have time to be dealing with nonscience, even if they feel obligated to do so. He then shares an observation regarding the journal that she is an editor for, is not regarded as a quality peer-reviewed journal (indeed, this is true; ISI's journal citation reports doesn't even list Energy and Environment, which would seem to indicate that it is not looked upon very well by others). He then comments that he's just venting frustration, and agrees that Haughton's reply is correct. Haughton's final reply mentions that SB-C, before her retirement, provided an 'ongoing critique of my motives and supposed misguidedness' with regards to Haughton's environmental interests (Haughton is a professor of Human Geography, so environmental concerns are not the only thing he could be primarily studying).

Does this really seem like such an outlandish and unreasonable discussion to you? I don't know what branch of theoretical physics you're in, or at what level, but you've never complained to someone else about how you feel that someone else is unfairly criticizing your research because of personal prejudices? Of course, the part where Jones complained about her use of her affiliation with University of Hull is unlikely to have any equivalents in your field, as I doubt there are professional (or retired) physicists who frequently comment in the sphere of public opinion rather than scientific discussion about how your (personally, your) research is completely backwards and accused you of dishonesty. And use their former affiliation with reputable universities to make their ignorant critique sound more informed.


From the hacked email:

Michael Mann discusses how to destroy a journal that has published sceptic papers

This is doubly untrue. His reason for opposing the journal isn't that they have 'published skeptic papers', as many prominent journals have, in fact (I believe Nature has published a few...), but that the papers they are publishing are not fit to pass peer review, and so the problem is their peer review process. Secondly, he doesn't advocate "destroying" the journal, but rather, as sometimes happens when journals become a venue for advocacy rather than science, that scientists stop recognizing it as a peer-reviewed journal. As a non-peer-reviewed journal, scientists would not cite articles from it or submit their articles to it as part of the scientific literature. Do you submit your articles to, or cite articles from, the International Journal for Creation Research?

Incidentally, the paper which prompted this e-mail, Proxy climatic and environmental changes of the past 1000 years (Soon and Baliunas, 2003), was horribly flawed, and indeed, never should have been published. Shortly after the publication, half of the editorial board of Climate Research resigned over the matter. One of those who resigned was the Von Storch mentioned in the email as a possible skeptic. Von Storch had just been promoted to Editor-in-Chief, and attempted to publish an editorial against the paper in question, the publisher, Otto Kinne, decided that the editorial could only be published with the consent of all of the editors of Climate Research (including the one who approved the Soon and Baliunas paper). The editorial would not be published, and Von Storch resigned a few days before his promotion from editor to the newly created position of editor-in-chief was to take effect.

Futhermore, 13 authors of papers cited in the Soon and Baliunas paper wrote a letter in which they criticized the paper on three main grounds: Soon and Baliunas used data reflective of changes in moisture, rather than temperature; they failed to distinguish between regional and hemispheric temperature anomalies; and they reconstructed past temperatures from proxy evidence not capable of resolving decadal trends.

When two other climatologists repeated the study, but without making the mistakes of Soon and Baliunas, they came to... let's just say, a rather different result. In short, peer-review at the journal Climate Research actually had failed badly, and Mann was, in fact, correct to come to the conclusion that he did.



Each "scandalous" email is dissected here:

Summary of notable emails from the CRU hacking scandal : science

You copy and pasted a COMMENT from this person overview for NonHomogenized

And are passing it off as your own analysis?
 
Explain how, the finding of an email that discusses tricks to data, is somehow out of context?

You are either not including data because it is an outlier, subject to a test itself, or you are not including data, because it would not give you the result that you want.

The first is a legitimate statistical process, the second is fraud. Do we need to contextualize such blatant manipulation, that somehow the allegations of data manipulation are OK in SOME contexts?

Science is meant to be objective, and thus above context or subjective notions. You do not fudge data, merely because you wanted to get the work published, you don not fudge data to make sure that it conforms with past experiments, you do not fudge data because you have a head ache....

Secondly, the CRU has made no attempt to actually provide evidence of the context, all they are doing is using innuendo and implication to suggest that the 'cherry picked emails are fraudulent'.

If the CRU wanted to refute the claims, I am sure that they could report the matter to police and/or request the help of forensic IT experts.

But saying that, why do they need to do that? When they have thousands of apologists doing their handy work on the internet. The true believers will defend the wrongs of the priests.....

QFT!

Another facet of this debate is how public consideration for AGW has waned signficantly over the past year. People now recognize the debate overwhelmingly as a political debate, not a scientific one, and most people much prefer to tune out politics altogether.

Therefore, cynicism is now the overwhelming thought among most people regarding AGW; hence, the credibility of the Gore movement is all but gone, except for the life support Obama is trying to give it to create more taxes and more governmental control over our lives.

The public debate has been lost for global warming. Now it's a matter of whether Washington can enact legislation for it anyway.
 
You copy and pasted a COMMENT from this person overview for NonHomogenized

And are passing it off as your own analysis?


What part of:

Each "scandalous" email is dissected here:

Summary of notable emails from the CRU hacking scandal : science

did you not understand? Where did I say it was my own words? :roll: :doh
 
What part of:

Each "scandalous" email is dissected here:

Summary of notable emails from the CRU hacking scandal : science

did you not understand? Where did I say it was my own words? :roll: :doh

You didn't quote the person, and further more, you failed to mention that the comment you were so excited by was an opinion comment from a poster.

I.E. unless someone went to the link, and further scrolled down and looked around, they might think you actually came up with that.


It's amazing the level of desperation you have reached to ignore the reality that the AGW movement has been exposed for the scam it is. I.E. what myself, Gill and others here have been saying for YEARS, is being shown as true. And all your years of pavlovian response to the AGW bell has been shown for what it is.
 
Why should he/she?

I really love those who sit back and DEMAND that others do work for them.

She insisted we discuss the extent to which the warming trend is attributable to human CO2 emissions. I'd like her to actually demonstrate an understanding of the theory she so adamantly and consistently propagates. Is that too much to ask?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Stop the personal attacks or there will be further consequences.
 
On that note, time to leave. I find it a pity that often, on these debate forums, you only get to debate reality. I rather debate policies, and in my view, that's where you can find the real agenda of both sides.
 
You didn't quote the person, and further more, you failed to mention that the comment you were so excited by was an opinion comment from a poster.

I.E. unless someone went to the link, and further scrolled down and looked around, they might think you actually came up with that.


It's amazing the level of desperation you have reached to ignore the reality that the AGW movement has been exposed for the scam it is. I.E. what myself, Gill and others here have been saying for YEARS, is being shown as true. And all your years of pavlovian response to the AGW bell has been shown for what it is.

Wow... you're unreal. I posted the link, yet it's not good enough. So sorry that I had to make you scroll and click... I hope your finger survived. :doh

Yet it's so much easier to point a finger at me, rather than address the contents of what I had posted. It does not matter who wrote it, now does it? As long as it answers the point of cherry picking, and how it's done, that should matter. At least to someone who is open-minded.

Anyway, I'm out of this bashfest. It's pointless, as it seems personal attacks are more important that actual facts.

Before I bid adieu, I thought I'd torture y'all with a few final thoughts.

If y'all want to believe that all of the evil climate scientists of the world schemed all of this global warming **** up, then fine! It's not a stretch to believe that sometime in the early 70s, climate scientists simultaneously schemed a plan to get rich by getting the world to believe the falsehood that the world is warming (I can already hear the evil laughter!)! They didn't know each other, but through some strange telepathy (cue Twilight Zone music!), were able to read each other's mind and set the plans forth. No one really knows who is funding this evil madness, so it must be the Wizard of Oz hiding behind his curtain.

Or, bury your head in the sand and deny the actual facts that indeed the world is warming. All data points to warming.... The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record. The oceans are warming, and there are signs everywhere where climate change has already altered the ecology. But instead of discussing these actual facts, it's much more fun to cherry pick personal emails that were stolen and taken out of context rather to make your "points."

Bash away.
 
Last edited:
Wow... you're unreal. I posted the link, yet it's not good enough. So sorry that I had to make you scroll and click... I hope your finger survived. :doh

Yet it's so much easier to point a finger at me, rather than address the contents of what I had posted. It does not matter who wrote it, now does it? As long as it answers the point of cherry picking, and how it's done, that should matter. At least to someone who is open-minded.

Anyway, I'm out of this bashfest. It's pointless, as it seems personal attacks are more important that actual facts.

Before I bid adieu, I thought I'd torture y'all with a few final thoughts.

If y'all want to believe that all of the evil climate scientists of the world schemed all of this global warming **** up, then fine! It's not a stretch to believe that sometime in the early 70s, climate scientists simultaneously schemed a plan to get rich by getting the world to believe the falsehood that the world is warming (I can already hear the evil laughter!)! They didn't know each other, but through some strange telepathy (cue Twilight Zone music!), were able to read each other's mind and set the plans forth. No one really knows who is funding this evil madness, so it must be the Wizard of Oz hiding behind his curtain.

Or, bury your head in the sand and deny the actual facts that indeed the world is warming. All data points to warming.... The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record. The oceans are warming, and there are signs everywhere where climate change has already altered the ecology. But instead of discussing these actual facts, it's much more fun to cherry pick personal emails that were stolen and taken out of context rather to make your "points."

Bash away.
Your fellow AGW enthusiast Joe1991 has vacated the thread, so the ad hom insult fest has come to an end until he shows back up I suspect.:roll:

Talk about a cherry picked argument that avoids actual facts, no the world is not warming right now and your choice to remain in denial about that fact, is typical and precisely why your "side" in this matter is losing the debate. From the specious inclusion of bad data in the IPCC report to the debunking by the The American Meteorological Society of the "consensus" argument, this has been a particularly bad year for the pro AGW crowd. Even without the CRU climategate story. Explains why so many are left trying to sputter and repeat the same old same old, over and over despite the pro AGW track record of abject failure, which is really starting to become well known and is the cause of so much pro AGW crankiness. Good.
 
Last edited:
I really have to get back to work, but reading all these AGW true believers as they cling on their sinking AGW lifeboats... is just too much fun. The party would only be complete by an appearance by J...what the fuh? I miss him during these waning days of the church of the AGW believers!

Sorry that I can't contribute any facts to this thread at the present... I'm still reading. There is so much "stuff" to read!
 
Before I bid adieu, I thought I'd torture y'all with a few final thoughts.

Can you torture with me with an explanation of AGW-theory as you understand it or do you lack the ability to do so?

If y'all want to believe that all of the evil climate scientists of the world schemed all of this global warming **** up, then fine! It's not a stretch to believe that sometime in the early 70s, climate scientists simultaneously schemed a plan to get rich by getting the world to believe the falsehood that the world is warming (I can already hear the evil laughter!)! They didn't know each other, but through some strange telepathy (cue Twilight Zone music!), were able to read each other's mind and set the plans forth. No one really knows who is funding this evil madness, so it must be the Wizard of Oz hiding behind his curtain.

The Earth warmed. No one disputes that.

Or, bury your head in the sand and deny the actual facts that indeed the world is warming. All data points to warming.... The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record. The oceans are warming, and there are signs everywhere where climate change has already altered the ecology. But instead of discussing these actual facts, it's much more fun to cherry pick personal emails that were stolen and taken out of context rather to make your "points."

Bash away.

What do you attribute this warming to and what makes you think this warming is deleterious to the ecosphere?
 
Back
Top Bottom