Christopher Hitchens Takes a Call From a Sufi Muslim

[Galactic Spin]

Yes, people who aren’t fundamentalists tend to be much more moderate.

Wow man, that's deep. Could you possibly try harder to miss the point?

Say someone was a fundamental pacifist humanist. If they became so by lesser degrees, they would become a worse person.

Now, do Islam. It goes the other way.

Good luck with your exercise.

 

[Tigerace117]

Wow man, that's deep. Could you possible try harder to miss the point?

Say someone was a fundamental pacifist humanist. If they became so by lesser degrees, they would become a worse person.

Now, do Islam. It goes the other way.

Good luck with your exercise.

Say someone was a fundamental believer in America being the ”greatest country on earth”. How many hundreds of thousands of dead— millions, really— has ”American exceptionalism“ that produced? Does America need someone to come in and help us have an “enlightenment“?

Are you starting to see the problem with your little narrative?

 

[Tigerace117]

Ah yes, the usual irrelevant tantrum, when I'm debating you into the dirt.

Dude, you claimed Islam was a “death cult”, something which is laughably wrong. I hate to break it to you, but you already lost

 

[Galactic Spin]

If Non Sequitur and Tu Quoque had a baby ^^

 

[Tigerace117]

If Non Sequitur and Tu Quoque had a baby ^^

So when you agreed with and supported the claim of Islam being a death cult in posts 17, 38, and 40, you were, what, just kidding? You didn’t actually make those posts?

 

[ralfy]

I remember reading Armstrong's Islam, and I think it noted that Muslims are generally moderate, and there are many schools of thought in their religion, similar to other mainstream religions. Some examples that might help include Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

[Galactic Spin]

I remember reading Armstrong's Islam, and I think it noted that Muslims are generally moderate, and there are many schools of thought in their religion, similar to other mainstream religions. Some examples that might help include Malaysia and Indonesia.

Indonesia is a fine example of a country sprinting in the wrong direction because of Islam. You should read up on it. It is truly disgusting.

Right as that country was on the brink of developing into a second world country, Islam put its foot on Indonesia's neck. It's very sad.

 

[Tigerace117]

Indonesia is a fine example of a country sprinting in the wrong direction because of Islam. You should read up on it. It is truly disgusting.

Right as that country was on the brink of developing into a second world country, Islam put its foot on Indonesia's neck. It's very sad.

Islam has been in Indonesia since the 13th century. Arguing that it “suddenly put its foot on Indonesia‘s neck” is, yet again, comically ignorant.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Islam has been in Indonesia since the 13th century. Arguing that it “suddenly put its foot on Indonesia‘s neck” is, yet again, comically ignorant.

Of course, this is just more reflexive crybabying from you, and you know less than nothing about what is happening in Indonesia right now. Just another worthless outburst.

Islam has been In Afghanistan for centuries. See if you can squint those weaselly little eyes and see a difference between 1964 Afghanistan and 2023 Afghanistan. Good luck.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Women at Kabul University in 1965:



Women at Kabul University in 2023:



See if you can spot the difference...

 

[Tigerace117]

Of course, this is just more reflexive crybabying from you, and you know less than nothing about what is happening in Indonesia right now. Just another worthless outburst.

Islam has been In Afghanistan for centuries. See if you can squint those weaselly little eyes and see a difference between 1964 Afghanistan and 2023 Afghanistan. Good luck.

Awww, someone sounds real mad because I pointed out how ignorant calling Islam a “death cult“ is. It’s okay bud, we all get that you are furious people in the Third World won’t just abide by what “enlightened” westerners think

Hmm,....for starters, a multi decade civil war and multiple failed foreign invasions, for starters. Of course, the reality is that it was the United States who armed many of the extremist militia who later became the Taliban in the name of fighting the Russians. Oops

 

[Tigerace117]

Women at Kabul University in 1965:

View attachment 67445265

Women at Kabul University in 2023:

View attachment 67445266

See if you can spot the difference...

Gee, Afghanistan was still very much a Muslim nation in 1965 as well. Apparently, vast numbers of Muslims didn’t agree with you that their religion was a “death cult”.

 

[Luce]

Many! We have a sizeable Muslim community in my city.

Have you ever walked down a street in Saudi Arabia with a picture of Mohammed on your shirt?

Why the **** would I be in Saudi Arabia?

We have enough religious freaks of our own.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Why the **** would I be in Saudi Arabia?

We have enough religious freaks of our own.

I suppose you take my point, then.

 

[Luce]

I suppose you take my point, then.

One fanatic is the same as the next.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The Amish do not kill 'apostates' - do they? Both Catholics and Protestants were murderous is the past but then was then, Islam is a death cult now.

It appears that some parts of the islamic world are in the phase of holy war, and according to their own scriptures, this is defined by "houses", as in Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb.
The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law.

Every organized religion in history has run through the various phases of enlightenment, renaissance, abundance, dark ages, holy war, mass slaughter and then the wheel completes the cycle and repeats.

 

[LostInSeattle]

That's exactly right.

Christianity had a reformation that missed Islam.

Then the western world had a centuries long enlightenment that missed Islam.

Come on. Slavery, the annihilation of the North American native population, the Salem witch trials - all that shit was post-enlightenment.

Islam has a long history of intellectual accomplishment.

Women at Kabul University in 1965:

View attachment 67445265

Women at Kabul University in 2023:

View attachment 67445266

See if you can spot the difference...

I refer you to my earlier post. Equating the Taliban with all muslims is ridiculous. You have not established a universal "death cult" in Islam. Religious followers come in all stripes. You've acknowledged that yet continue to tar all muslims with the behavior of the extremists in their ranks.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Come on. Slavery, the annihilation of the North American native population, the Salem witch trials - all that shit was post-enlightenment.

Yes, but also ended because of the enlightenment. It didn't happen overnight. It's still happening.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Equating the Taliban with all muslims is ridiculous.

I have never implied that. I stand beside moderate Muslims. Especially those in Afghanistan. It's a disgrace that the Western world didn't eliminate the Taliban. Why have these huge, modern armies, if not to prevent another holocaust? The Taliban have shown us who they are and what they will do.

 

[ralfy]

Indonesia is a fine example of a country sprinting in the wrong direction because of Islam. You should read up on it. It is truly disgusting.

Right as that country was on the brink of developing into a second world country, Islam put its foot on Indonesia's neck. It's very sad.

Not Islam but ethnic strife, tension between nationalism and IMF-driven neoliberalism, and corruption. Things stabilized only after reformasi, which resembles the East Asian Miracle.

Hence, VIP:

Philippines part of ‘VIP Club’ in World Economic Forum — Marcos

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines was part of the “VIP Club” at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland, which represents Southeast Asian Countries with the best performing

globalnation.inquirer.net

BTW, you forgot to mention Malaysia.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Not Islam but ethnic strife, tension between nationalism and IMF-driven neoliberalism, and corruption. Things stabilized only after reformasi, which resembles the East Asian Miracle.

Hence, VIP:

Philippines part of ‘VIP Club’ in World Economic Forum — Marcos

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines was part of the “VIP Club” at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland, which represents Southeast Asian Countries with the best performing

globalnation.inquirer.net

BTW, you forgot to mention Malaysia.

Yes, Islam. Islam is a scourge in Indonesia. That county is going backwards because of it. It's very sad.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yes, but also ended because of the enlightenment. It didn't happen overnight. It's still happening.

No it didn’t. Christians continued happily slaughtering “infidels“ long after the Enlightenment.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yes, Islam. Islam is a scourge in Indonesia. That county is going backwards because of it. It's very sad.

It’s very sad watching you demonize an entire religion as a “death cult” for no reason.

 

[Tigerace117]

I have never implied that. I stand beside moderate Muslims. Especially those in Afghanistan. It's a disgrace that the Western world didn't eliminate the Taliban. Why have these huge, modern armies, if not to prevent another holocaust? The Taliban have shown us who they are and what they will do.

You repeatedly called their religion a death cult, so no, you clearly don’t.

America tried for twenty years. We failed miserably.

 

[ralfy]

Yes, Islam. Islam is a scourge in Indonesia. That county is going backwards because of it. It's very sad.

Not Islam, as explained to you.