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Christmas is not pagan, it just isn't

it's just me

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Is this about December 25?

This is the worst. Did you know that the original Christmas festival was a holiday celebrated together with Christ’s baptism on January 6? No Sol Invictus (Roman pagan feast of the Invincible Sun) there, I’m afraid, so that can’t be the origin of Christmas. (Armenian Christians still celebrate this single feast on January 6, though because the calendar some of them use is out of sync with the one many of us use, it will fall on our January 19.)

And even when Christmas did get moved to December 25 (getting separated out from the baptism feast), it was not about Sol Invictus, which actually post-dates (you read that right!) the association of Christ’s birth with December 25 (being introduced by the emperor Aurelian only in AD 274). (Maybe the pagans stole it from the Christians!) Rather, December 25 was arrived at because it was exactly nine months after March 25, when the Annunciation was being celebrated, which is the feast of Christ’s conception in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Christmas on December 25 isn’t a claim that Jesus was born on that day or even an attempt to claim a pagan holiday and make it Christian. It’s about a feast that was set to be nine months before.

So, yes, you can have Christmas without December 25. And for a long time, most Christians did.

Is this about Saturnalia?

Well, that was originally on December 17 and eventually extended through December 23. Are you saying that that week in December that happens to fall near Christmas on December 25 makes Christmas pagan?

Really? This would be like saying that, if your birthday falls around the first weekend of September, you must belong to the organized labor movement because your birthday is near Labor Day. Facepalm, folks.

Is this about the winter solstice?

Before the introduction of Sol Invictus in AD 274, there were no pagan solstice celebrations going on near where Christians were. (True story.) But surely a reference to something happening in nature ought to be considered pagan and not Christian!

Says who? Are you saying that Christians ought not pay attention to the rhythms of the natural world that they believe God created for His people to live in? Really? Nature stuff is pagan? Please.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/road...qDDALDeqSvwhV-wtUI5pIkJI568ZIVMLQ6rm2T7Kat1l4
 

zyzygy

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Happy pagan Yule!
 

Tanngrisnir

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Is this about December 25?

This is the worst. Did you know that the original Christmas festival was a holiday celebrated together with Christ’s baptism on January 6? No Sol Invictus (Roman pagan feast of the Invincible Sun) there, I’m afraid, so that can’t be the origin of Christmas. (Armenian Christians still celebrate this single feast on January 6, though because the calendar some of them use is out of sync with the one many of us use, it will fall on our January 19.)

And even when Christmas did get moved to December 25 (getting separated out from the baptism feast), it was not about Sol Invictus, which actually post-dates (you read that right!) the association of Christ’s birth with December 25 (being introduced by the emperor Aurelian only in AD 274). (Maybe the pagans stole it from the Christians!) Rather, December 25 was arrived at because it was exactly nine months after March 25, when the Annunciation was being celebrated, which is the feast of Christ’s conception in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Christmas on December 25 isn’t a claim that Jesus was born on that day or even an attempt to claim a pagan holiday and make it Christian. It’s about a feast that was set to be nine months before.

So, yes, you can have Christmas without December 25. And for a long time, most Christians did.

Is this about Saturnalia?

Well, that was originally on December 17 and eventually extended through December 23. Are you saying that that week in December that happens to fall near Christmas on December 25 makes Christmas pagan?

Really? This would be like saying that, if your birthday falls around the first weekend of September, you must belong to the organized labor movement because your birthday is near Labor Day. Facepalm, folks.

Is this about the winter solstice?

Before the introduction of Sol Invictus in AD 274, there were no pagan solstice celebrations going on near where Christians were. (True story.) But surely a reference to something happening in nature ought to be considered pagan and not Christian!

Says who? Are you saying that Christians ought not pay attention to the rhythms of the natural world that they believe God created for His people to live in? Really? Nature stuff is pagan? Please.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/road...qDDALDeqSvwhV-wtUI5pIkJI568ZIVMLQ6rm2T7Kat1l4

Yawn. Christmas is utterly and irredeemably pagan. And that's the way, uh-huh uh-huh, it is.

Still, it's fun to watch self-described Christians try and pretend it isn't.

Happy Holidays!
 

it's just me

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Yawn. Christmas is utterly and irredeemably pagan. And that's the way, uh-huh uh-huh, it is.

Still, it's fun to watch self-described Christians try and pretend it isn't.

Happy Holidays!

I would say "prove it" but I know you can't and won't, you never do back up anything you say.
 

Elora

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What does the Bible say?

Is Christmas for Christians?

Millions of people around the world believe that the Christmas tradition is the birthday celebration of Jesus Christ. However, have you ever considered whether first-century Christians, those closest to Jesus, celebrated Christmas? And are you aware of what the Bible has to say about birthdays? Finding answers to these questions can help us determine if Christmas is for Christians.

First, the Bible does not mention birthday celebrations for Jesus or any other faithful worshipper of God. The Scriptures refer to only two individuals who celebrated their birthday. Neither of them was a worshipper of Jehovah, the God of the Bible, and their birthday celebrations were cast in a negative light. (Genesis 40:20; Mark 6:21) According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, the early Christians opposed the “pagan custom of celebrating birthdays.”

On what date was Jesus born?

The Bible does not say exactly when Jesus was born. “The day of Christ’s birth cannot be ascertained from the N[ew] T[estament] or, indeed, from any other source,” states McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia. Surely, if Jesus wanted his followers to celebrate his birthday, he would have made certain that they knew the date of his birth.

Second, the Bible does not record that Jesus or any one of his disciples celebrated Christmas. According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, celebrating Christmas was first mentioned “in the Chronograph of Philocalus, a Roman almanac whose source material can be dated to 336 [C.E.].” Clearly, that was well after the completion of the Bible and centuries after Jesus was on earth. Thus, McClintock and Strong note that “the observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin.” *

What event did Jesus instruct his disciples to commemorate?

As the Great Teacher, Jesus gave clear instructions on what he wanted his followers to do, and these are recorded in the Bible. Celebrating Christmas, however, is not one of them. Just as a schoolteacher does not want his students to go beyond the instructions given them, Jesus does not want his followers to “go beyond the things that are written” in the Holy Scriptures.​—1 Corinthians 4:6.

On the other hand, there is one important event the early Christians were very familiar with​—the commemoration, or Memorial, of Jesus’ death. Jesus personally told his disciples when to observe this occasion and showed them how to do it. These specific instructions, as well as the calendar day of his death, are recorded in the Bible.​—Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:25.

As we have seen, Christmas is a birthday celebration, and early Christians did not follow that pagan custom. Furthermore, the Bible does not mention that Jesus or anyone else celebrated Christmas. In light of these facts, millions of Christians the world over have concluded that Christmas is not for them.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...-november/christian-christmas-bible/#?insight[search_id]=113a1de9-3bf0-4c67-a412-cb3e01e95735&insight[search_result_index]=3
 

Tanngrisnir

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I would say "prove it" but I know you can't and won't, you never do back up anything you say.

LOL! I don't have to prove basic reality and I always back up what I say. I understand why that frightens some people.

Your link didn't support your claim ("True story!"), as usual, so it's odd that you'd think I have to prove anything.

Blah blah woof woof. https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/15/is-christmas-a-pagan-holiday/#1aaae8372d32
The True Meaning of Christmas: Paganism, Sun Worship and Commercialism

Hating history is a bad thing. I don't recommend it to anyone.
 

zyzygy

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The Yule Log and the Xmas tree. Very Christian.
 

zyzygy

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1. Pagan Religions and Sun Worship
1.1. A General Pagan History of Christmas
Many traditional elements of Christmas pre-date Christianity1. In other words, Christmas was pagan before it was adopted (and renamed) by Christians. The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1908 states that "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts"2 - those authors lived into the 3rd century. The CE article concludes that when later Christians adopted the date of the 25th of December for Jesus' birth, "the abundance of analogous midwinter festivals may indefinitely have helped the choice of the December date, the same instinct which set Natalis Invicti at the winter solstice will have sufficed, apart from deliberate adaptation or curious calculation, to set the Christian feast there too". Prof. Hutton, a respected and careful primary-sources historian, mentions Christmas in his valuable book on the history of modern Paganism.

The True Meaning of Christmas: Paganism, Sun Worship and Commercialism
 

it's just me

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Ah, Forbes, a link that doesn't work and the omnipresent JW website. That's certainly authoritative.
 

nota bene

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Oh, who cares about the specific date? What matters is what happened and why. Focus on that or, alternatively, ignore it all and just enjoy holiday decorations because they're pretty and eschew traditions you don't like. Eat Chinese food on Christmas Day this year (I did last year). Whatever.

Bah, humbugs!
 

beefheart

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Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!
 

zyzygy

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Oh, who cares about the specific date? What matters is what happened and why. Focus on that or, alternatively, ignore it all and just enjoy holiday decorations because they're pretty and eschew traditions you don't like. Eat Chinese food on Christmas Day this year (I did last year). Whatever.

Bah, humbugs!

Did you say ban humbugs!

candy-shack-sugar-free-vegan-sweets-mint-humbugs-120g-01-500-o-500x500.jpg
 

zyzygy

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Oh, who cares about the specific date? What matters is what happened and why. Focus on that or, alternatively, ignore it all and just enjoy holiday decorations because they're pretty and eschew traditions you don't like. Eat Chinese food on Christmas Day this year (I did last year). Whatever.

Bah, humbugs!

Alleged to have happened.
 

it's just me

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Oh, who cares about the specific date? What matters is what happened and why. Focus on that or, alternatively, ignore it all and just enjoy holiday decorations because they're pretty and eschew traditions you don't like. Eat Chinese food on Christmas Day this year (I did last year). Whatever.

Bah, humbugs!

Deck the hores with bores of horry, fa ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra.
 

PoS

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zyzygy

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Oh, who cares about the specific date? What matters is what happened and why. Focus on that or, alternatively, ignore it all and just enjoy holiday decorations because they're pretty and eschew traditions you don't like. Eat Chinese food on Christmas Day this year (I did last year). Whatever.

Bah, humbugs!

GrubHub (GRUB) says Chinese food is 152% more popular on Christmas Day than it is throughout the rest of the year. In fact, three of the top five days of the year to order Chinese food are Christmas, Christmas Eve and New Year's Day, followed by "smoking holiday" (4/20) and Labor Day.

By far the most popular item for Chinese food orders is General Tso's Chicken. According to GrubHub -- which features roughly 30,000 restaurants on its site across more than 800 cities in the U.S. -- it's actually the 4th most popular dish on the site, all year-round.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/12/24/smallbusiness/chinese-food-christmas/index.html
 

PoS

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So you took the "A Christmas Story" route with the dinner, eh? :cool:

We did that once when my mom cooked raw turkey for Thanksgiving. The restaurant was packed and my mom felt relieved she wasnt the only bad cook that day.

Why was he cross?

You'd be cross to if they rammed those crown of thorns on your head...
 

TheGoverness

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We did that once when my mom cooked raw turkey for Thanksgiving. The restaurant was packed and my mom felt relieved she wasnt the only bad cook that day

giphy.gif
 

RAMOSS

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I'm on holiday strike. I'm done until I hear the magic words. :twisted:

I know that since my mother's wall oven died (she hasn't had it replaced yet), I have been cooking the turkey and bringing it to her house for the holiday meals. I think she'll probably get it fixed this upcoming year )maybe.
 

Elora

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I'm on holiday strike. I'm done until I hear the magic words. :twisted:

Think of the money you'll save and the useless gifts you won't have to re-gift...:2razz:
 
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