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Christmas is not pagan, it just isn't

humbolt said:
Nope. Your Christmas is pagan. Mine is not.
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That is what the Israelites thought when they made the golden calf...they even deceived themselves by saying...“There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow"...

God did not agree...“Go, descend, because your people, whom you led up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves"...

You can read about it in Exodus 32:1-35...
 
Elvira said:
That is what the Israelites thought when they made the golden calf...they even deceived themselves by saying...“There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow"...

God did not agree...“Go, descend, because your people, whom you led up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves"...

You can read about it in Exodus 32:1-35...
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I don't practice the traditional Christmas as it is played out in the media and business. I practice revering the birth of Christ, which is a daily thing. One day a year means little, but it is a pleasant break from the gloom of winter darkness. In that respect, the celebration of Christmas day is probably pagan, but it's a relatively recent development in our culture. In the past, the effusive gift giving was not practiced. A simple, humble gift was more than sufficient to reflect the gift of Christ.
 
Logician Man said:
Here is a lesson for you. Hate hurts the hater, not the hated. I am at peace with myself. Clearly you are not..your loss..and with that I leave you to wallow in your self-loathing and misery.
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And the bible commands him love you!
 
humbolt said:
I don't practice the traditional Christmas as it is played out in the media and business. I practice revering the birth of Christ, which is a daily thing. One day a year means little, but it is a pleasant break from the gloom of winter darkness. In that respect, the celebration of Christmas day is probably pagan, but it's a relatively recent development in our culture. In the past, the effusive gift giving was not practiced. A simple, humble gift was more than sufficient to reflect the gift of Christ.
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I think you missed the whole point of the account of the golden calf...they made it about them and what they wanted, instead of making it about God and what He wants...much like people do today with Christmas...it is not about Christ nor was it ever about Christ...it's what the people want...
 
zyzygy said:
And the bible commands him love you!
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Oh, but I do, and I fear for his very soul but I am not going to lie to him, which is what he wants. And what you want. And what Elvira wants.
 
Elvira said:
I think you missed the whole point of the account of the golden calf...they made it about them and what they wanted, instead of making it about God and what He wants...much like people do today with Christmas...it is not about Christ nor was it ever about Christ...it's what the people want...
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No, I think I got it. There's no doubt that the very public, traditional Christmas is materialistic, consumer driven, and in search of profits. That does not mean that Christians necessarily have to celebrate Christmas in that fashion, and many don't. The Christian church calendar was established, historically accurate or not, long before the Macy parade.
 
humbolt said:
No, I think I got it. There's no doubt that the very public, traditional Christmas is materialistic, consumer driven, and in search of profits. That does not mean that Christians necessarily have to celebrate Christmas in that fashion, and many don't. The Christian church calendar was established, historically accurate or not, long before the Macy parade.
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Don't know what that has to do with anything...did Jesus command his followers to observe his birth? Did he and his apostles observe his birth? Did the 1st early Christians observe his birth? Why not do a little research and find out for yourself where Christmas originated?
 
PoS said:
I do. Im a Christian when its Christmas- so I get more gifts. :mrgreen:
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Many people only pretend to be Christians. Most Christians, actually.
 
humbolt said:
No. I generally don't. I do have a lot of plants in my house, and among them is a pine tree. Does that make me a pagan?
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Well, you don't violate Jeremiah 10 at least. If you did a Christmas tree, you would be pagan.
 
RAMOSS said:
Well, you don't violate Jeremiah 10 at least. If you did a Christmas tree, you would be pagan.
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Heh. It wasn't a conscious decision on my part. It's just not that important to me. If others want trees and all kinds of decoration, I don't mind. It's when empty symbols become the focus of such an event that can be troubling, but it's not my trouble, so I generally don't comment on it.
 
Elvira said:
Don't know what that has to do with anything...did Jesus command his followers to observe his birth? Did he and his apostles observe his birth? Did the 1st early Christians observe his birth? Why not do a little research and find out for yourself where Christmas originated?
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The Bible is silent on many things. You may have noticed that. We are exhorted to absorb the lessons offered, and make judgements on many things using those lessons as the guide. Jesus didn't command his followers to wear sandals on Thursday or to prepare for rain, either - at least not that we know of, anyway. Humans have celebrated and recorded births as best as possible throughout history. That's how Christ's ancestry was established. You may have read that. It is perfectly normal and fitting that Christian celebrate the birth of Christ. In fact, it would be extremely odd if they didn't. You can choose to celebrate His birth, or not, as you wish.
 
humbolt said:
The Bible is silent on many things. You may have noticed that. We are exhorted to absorb the lessons offered, and make judgements on many things using those lessons as the guide. Jesus didn't command his followers to wear sandals on Thursday or to prepare for rain, either - at least not that we know of, anyway. Humans have celebrated and recorded births as best as possible throughout history. That's how Christ's ancestry was established. You may have read that. It is perfectly normal and fitting that Christian celebrate the birth of Christ. In fact, it would be extremely odd if they didn't. You can choose to celebrate His birth, or not, as you wish.
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One of the lessons that was very direct...the apostle Paul warned against any combining of Bible-based truth and paganism when he said...

“What sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” 2 Corinthians 6:14, 15

And no, the early Christians did not observe birthdays...

“The early Christians,” notes The World Book Encyclopedia, “considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”
 
Elvira said:
One of the lessons that was very direct...the apostle Paul warned against any combining of Bible-based truth and paganism when he said...

“What sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” 2 Corinthians 6:14, 15

And no, the early Christians did not observe birthdays...

“The early Christians,” notes The World Book Encyclopedia, “considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”
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All humans record births in some fashion or another. The celebration of a gift from God is not a pagan practice, or are you of the belief that early Christians did not make mistakes. Being human, I think they did in their haste to separate themselves from paganism. The gifts delivered to Mary upon Christ's birth were not condemned and tossed into the gutter as pagan tripe. A complete reading is important.
 
The Battle for Christmas, Stephen Nissenbaum refers to Christmas as “nothing but a pagan festival covered with a Christian veneer.”

“The early Christians,” states Professor Ferguson in his book The Religions of the Roman Empire, “did not celebrate the birthday of Jesus; it was unrecorded.”

U.S. Catholic of December 1981, page 32, notes: “It is impossible to separate Christmas from its pagan origins.”

The World Book Encyclopedia (1982) observes under “Christmas”: “During the 1600’s . . . Christmas was outlawed in England and in parts of the English colonies in America.”

The Saturnalia in Rome provided the model for most of the merry customs of the Christmas time.”​—Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics (Edinburgh, 1911), edited by James Hastings, Volume III, pages 608, 609.

“Uncanny parallels to Christmas customs occur in the New Year celebrations of Babylon,” admits historian Pimlott in The Englishman’s Christmas.

“The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin. The day of Christ’s birth cannot be ascertained from the N[ew] T[estament], or, indeed, from any other source. The fathers of the first three centuries do not speak of any special observance of the nativity.”​—Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1981 reprint), by John McClintock and James Strong, Volume II, page 276.
 
it's just me said:
Is this about December 25?

This is the worst. Did you know that the original Christmas festival was a holiday celebrated together with Christ’s baptism on January 6? No Sol Invictus (Roman pagan feast of the Invincible Sun) there, I’m afraid, so that can’t be the origin of Christmas. (Armenian Christians still celebrate this single feast on January 6, though because the calendar some of them use is out of sync with the one many of us use, it will fall on our January 19.)

And even when Christmas did get moved to December 25 (getting separated out from the baptism feast), it was not about Sol Invictus, which actually post-dates (you read that right!) the association of Christ’s birth with December 25 (being introduced by the emperor Aurelian only in AD 274). (Maybe the pagans stole it from the Christians!) Rather, December 25 was arrived at because it was exactly nine months after March 25, when the Annunciation was being celebrated, which is the feast of Christ’s conception in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Christmas on December 25 isn’t a claim that Jesus was born on that day or even an attempt to claim a pagan holiday and make it Christian. It’s about a feast that was set to be nine months before.

So, yes, you can have Christmas without December 25. And for a long time, most Christians did.

Is this about Saturnalia?

Well, that was originally on December 17 and eventually extended through December 23. Are you saying that that week in December that happens to fall near Christmas on December 25 makes Christmas pagan?

Really? This would be like saying that, if your birthday falls around the first weekend of September, you must belong to the organized labor movement because your birthday is near Labor Day. Facepalm, folks.

Is this about the winter solstice?

Before the introduction of Sol Invictus in AD 274, there were no pagan solstice celebrations going on near where Christians were. (True story.) But surely a reference to something happening in nature ought to be considered pagan and not Christian!

Says who? Are you saying that Christians ought not pay attention to the rhythms of the natural world that they believe God created for His people to live in? Really? Nature stuff is pagan? Please.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/road...qDDALDeqSvwhV-wtUI5pIkJI568ZIVMLQ6rm2T7Kat1l4
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Wow its going to be hilarious to read this thread after that instant failure of an OP. Par for the course.
 
And for over 60 years no one noticed or cared that the pledge did not mention god. The more you know..

Pledge-Of-Allegiance-1892.jpg

Happy Holidays!!
 
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