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Christian Chaplain Threatend Over Pro-Christian Facebook Post

This says absolutely nothing about homosexuality. You're trying to assert that anything he didn't mention automatically falls into sin. This is one of the most common passages used in church weddings. (Was used in mine as well) It defines MARRIAGE for christians, it does not condemn sexual orientations.

But please, continue to make up whatever you want to support your bigotry. I'll be waiting here if you can come up with something that Jesus actually did say on homosexuality.

I'm still waiting for this quote that everybody seems to be following:

Jesus: "Thou shalt publicly harass homosexuals and lobby thine government to make their lives miserable. "

What part of "He (the Creator) made them male and female to be joined together" do you not get?

Look this is the teaching of most Christian denominations. They have a right to express their beliefs through free speech in this country under our Constitution. You don't have to agree with them but you also don't have the right to use Political Correctness to silence them either. You want tolerance in this society? Then start practicing it.

Cheers!
 
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What part of "He (the Creator) made them male and female to be joined together" do you not get?

Look this is the teaching of most Christian denominations. They have a right to express their beliefs through free speech in this country under our Constitution. You don't have to agree with them but you also don't have the right to use Political Correctness to silence them either. You want tolerance in this society? Then start practicing it.

Cheers!

I never once said I want them silenced or that this person should be punished. In fact I said the opposite. If you'd like to find a quote to prove otherwise, then good luck.

There's nothing in the "he (the creator)" statement you made that says anything about publicly harassing homosexuals or lobbying the government to have your religious views enforced. What ever happened to the "we are not to judge, god is to judge" belief? I KNOW jesus said that. Why don't you care about that statement? Why do you want to publicly harass homosexuals and make their lives miserable?
 
I never once said I want them silenced or that this person should be punished. In fact I said the opposite. If you'd like to find a quote to prove otherwise, then good luck.

There's nothing in the "he (the creator)" statement you made that says anything about publicly harassing homosexuals or lobbying the government to have your religious views enforced. What ever happened to the "we are not to judge, god is to judge" belief? I KNOW jesus said that. Why don't you care about that statement? Why do you want to publicly harass homosexuals and make their lives miserable?

Back up the truck...beep beep beep!

You have the audacity to call it public harassment for a chaplain of the Christian faith posting an article to his flock on the subject of homosexuality somehow equates to public harassment? Seriously? Get a grip. He is speaking to his own. He has that right under our Constitution. Dig deep in your pockets to locate some tolerance.
 
Back up the truck...beep beep beep!

You have the audacity to call it public harassment for a chaplain of the Christian faith posting an article to his flock on the subject of homosexuality somehow equates to public harassment? Seriously? Get a grip. He is speaking to his own. He has that right under our Constitution. Dig deep in your pockets to locate some tolerance.

If it ended there, you would be right, but it doesn't. The christian agenda has always been to legislate christian morality. Why is SSM not legal everywhere right now? Because christians are lobbying the government to deny rights to others that they readily enjoy.

If there wasn't this constant layer of animosity and harassment, you could probably get away with facebook comments like this without people thinking you're a total asshole.

I think this person has a right to say whatever she wants, and it's my right to think she's a complete asshole and a really bad christian who doesn't understand the bible because of it.

Still waiting on your jesus quote about lobbying the government or publicly condemning people, by the way.
 
That is sheer baloney! And obviously someone who has not spent much time studying the words of the one known as Christ to many.


(Matt 19:3-9) “3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

This passage makes it clear that ALL sex outside of marriage was sinful. And marriage can only be a man and a woman. Thus, homosexuality is automatically outside the bounds of marriage and thus, sinful in Jesus’ eyes.

Have a nice day!


That's why gays should be allowed to marry, rather than live in sin.

Bright blessings!
 
So, you've been alive for the vast majority of human history? Do you fear murder and oppression at the hands of Christians, or are you just getting your Victim Card on the cheap?

The history of the early Church was one of several cycles of serious murder and oppression at the hands of the pagans of the Roman Empire, so I'd say that the Christians have paid those dues. Maybe the pagans were just getting payback.

No, the point is y'all run around like this is the Spanish Inquisition and Holocaust combined. It's nothing of the sort. Your rights are not being infringed upon, your expression is still there, you're free to hate whomever you want for whatever reason you want. All that's happened is that atheists finally have been allowed to speak up. That's it. And you pretend like it's the greatest travesty in the history of mankind. But it's just not. It's nothing new, it's people running their mouths. Your lot got to do it for the majority of human history, now we get to join in the fun. Nothing more, nothing less. There's no travesty here, there's no war here, there's no oppression here; it's just the rights of the atheists finally being protected.
 
Odd how "pro-Christian" now means "anti-gay".
 
What part of "He (the Creator) made them male and female to be joined together" do you not get?

Look this is the teaching of most Christian denominations. They have a right to express their beliefs through free speech in this country under our Constitution. You don't have to agree with them but you also don't have the right to use Political Correctness to silence them either. You want tolerance in this society? Then start practicing it.

Cheers!
No, you just have a third grade understanding of human biology.

I think it's said that around ~0.05% of live human births feature some form of sexual ambiguity. Everything from genetic disorders like Klinefelter's to hormonal variations like Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) to physical variations in genitalia. I had a friend in high school that had AIS, which means she was genetically male but physically a female, i.e. her phenotype was female. Your Creator did not make her male or female, she is theoretically male AND female. I would also add that she was attracted to females. You bring another AIS person who is attracted to males, and suddenly you're condemning one of them to eternal hell.

Christianity does not have the accurate Biblical understanding or scientific knowledge to address this. With a human population of 7 billion, there's tens of millions of intersex people on this Earth that Christianity just cannot comprehend. Of course, I don't expect the people that wrote the Bible to have foreseen that. They thought the Earth was flat and that people died from evil spirits instead of cancer. Saying 'God made male and female to be joined' would make sense to them.

But you with the benefit of 21st Century knowledge do not have an excuse to spout off that Biblical bull****.
 
That's a big "NO" to all who think 1st ammendment rights are a protection from losing a job. The 1st ammendment protects your right to say anything, not to say anything and keep your job. When they've interpreted the laws on "expectation of privacy" for speech on social media, it comes down to this; if your employer hears about it, you must not have kept the profile "private" enough, so they can argue that it wasn't a private conversation. To differentiate speech from what is a representation of your employer and not, they only have to prove that you mentioned your employment on that particular profile, even just once in passing. (Typically you have a defense if you never use their name, but not much.)

For example; if I talk about my job on facebook, I'm a representative the second I mention them by name and all posts from that point on are considered representations of my employer. If I say something offensive and they gain access to the post, it's considered public speech. Both cases have some defense from retaliation, but not much; But, if you say something in public as a representative of an employer (double whammy), there's no law in the world that could protect you from retaliation.

In the context of this case; she had no privacy-defense the second the military found the post, by the very fact that they found the post. It doesn't mention whether she ever made it known that she works for the military on that profile, but I can infer that she did. That's the double whammy, there's no longer any defense from an employer's retaliation. She's lucky that they even gave her a choice; there was no legal obligation to do so.

Your analyses of the law seems accurate AFAIK and show why we need a federal law protecting employees rights to privacy and free expression. Something like this:

Employers, including federal, state and local government, may not discriminate against, or discipline any employee for their off-duty activities, whether public or not, unless the employee explicitly represents his or herself as a representative of the employer as part of the activity, or the employee has been convicted of a crime related to the activity. Employers may not be held responsible for the off-duty activities of employees unless the employer specifically requested or authorized the activity as a part of the employee's duties.


Without such a law, we are all in danger of losing our first amendment and privacy rights to our employers.

Note that this law would benefit employers as well as employees because it would protect them from any legal consequences and liability for their employee's activities. When an employer is embarrassed by an employee' activity they will be able to honestly say that the law prevents them from doing anything about it.
 
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Can someone in the military be denied their 1st Amendment Rights to free speech when they are not representing the military?

If you are in the military, you are always representing the military. And when you enlist, you are under the UMCJ and for the most part the constitution no longer applies to you...
 
Just curious, did Adam and Eve have a wedding ceremony? Did Solomon have a wedding ceremony for each wife he married--700 in all?
If Adam and Eve were the first people God created, did their children intermarry?
Seems we are related somehow, doesn't it?
Therefore, makes me wonder why the asst. chaplain would throw stones at gays since incest seems to be a part of history.
 
>

As a 20 year military veteran...

1. Can someone in the military be denied their 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Amendment Rights to free speech when they are not representing the military?

Poorly worded question. Members of the military are in the military 24/7 and there is no time when they are NOT considered to be representing the military.

If it was an anonymous Facebook page (which was not clarified) then that would be one thing. However if it identified her, had pictures of her in uniform, described in her profile that she was in the military, etc. - then ya, he actions reflect on the military.

2. In light of DOMA being struck down by the Supreme Court what happens to Christian Chaplains who support only the traditional view of marriage (between one man and one woman) and refuse to lead a same-sex “marriage” ceremony?


Nothing, neither the military or any civil law requires a member of the cleargy to perform a religious ceremony which conflicts with the dogma of the religious organization they represent.​



>>>>
 
If you are in the military, you are always representing the military. And when you enlist, you are under the UMCJ and for the most part the constitution no longer applies to you...

If that were so then why do Military appellate courts tend to interpret military law as being consistent with Constitutional protections so far as is possible? Now there are some differences to fit the military situation. Things like Miranda rights, right to counsel, search and seizure depending on the situation those personal Constitutional rights could be broadened or narrowed.
 
No, you just have a third grade understanding of human biology.

I think it's said that around ~0.05% of live human births feature some form of sexual ambiguity. Everything from genetic disorders like Klinefelter's to hormonal variations like Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) to physical variations in genitalia. I had a friend in high school that had AIS, which means she was genetically male but physically a female, i.e. her phenotype was female. Your Creator did not make her male or female, she is theoretically male AND female. I would also add that she was attracted to females. You bring another AIS person who is attracted to males, and suddenly you're condemning one of them to eternal hell.

Christianity does not have the accurate Biblical understanding or scientific knowledge to address this. With a human population of 7 billion, there's tens of millions of intersex people on this Earth that Christianity just cannot comprehend. Of course, I don't expect the people that wrote the Bible to have foreseen that. They thought the Earth was flat and that people died from evil spirits instead of cancer. Saying 'God made male and female to be joined' would make sense to them.

But you with the benefit of 21st Century knowledge do not have an excuse to spout off that Biblical bull****.

Thank you for your response. You are certainly entitled to your own beliefs and point of view but so is the chaplain that posted an article addressing the mainstream beliefs of many Christians serving in our armed forces.

After reading your response.....I thought of how our left leaning academia has done away with civics 101 and we are seeing the results of a very ignorant, intolerant society. But hey when you stop teaching the masses the first principles of the Constitution it makes it easier for those elitists who despise it to make that "change" they've been hoping for.
 
We should never hide from the truth because it's uncomfortable. This story is extremely sad, and it's even more disgusting for others to brush off this persecution and just call her a "bigot" or whatnot.

It is the very definition of bigotry for them to be intolerant of her views and punish her for them.
 
It's not religious, it's anti-gay. She couldn't say something anti-black and use religion as a shield either.

Except that the Bible doesn’t condemn “racial behavior” (whatever that it is) but it does condemn homosexual behavior. As a chaplain’s assistant I suspect her opinions fall in-line with biblical prohibitions.

As Manc Skipper pointed out, this is such an important subject, let's take a look at what Jesus had to say on homosexuality:

And there we have it!

Except that neither you nor Manc can know that. The Gospels are not comprehensive.

John 21:25
“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.”

But in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 Jesus did affirm what was said in Genesis 2: 24 regarding one man & one woman.

That being said, I don't think this was serious enough to warrant attention from the Army.

I completely agree.
 
Poorly worded question. Members of the military are in the military 24/7 and there is no time when they are NOT considered to be representing the military.

Fair enough. However, this woman (I'm assuming as she is a chaplain's assistant) is a member of the Christian Clergy. To be fair, there is no time when you are not representing Christianity, either. So what happens when the two conflict?
 
We should never hide from the truth because it's uncomfortable. This story is extremely sad, and it's even more disgusting for others to brush off this persecution and just call her a "bigot" or whatnot.

It is the very definition of bigotry for them to be intolerant of her views and punish her for them.

On the contrary, pointing to bigotry skulking under the cloak of religious belief is honesty.

A reprimand described as persecution is falling into the victim mode again.
 
This article is suspect for many reasons.
1. Unnamed sources.
2. Unverified account of the events.
3. Only one side allowed to present their story.
4. Used by a political commentator.
The author has a history of getting the facts wrong. Not just randomly wrong as in he isn't that bright, but wrong consistently on the side of sensationalism.
 
The blaze story refers to an anonymous woman as the author.

the article linked to as the blazes source says that the author is a man and gives his name.

:shrug:
 


I completely agree that anything said on social media (Facebook, Twitter, internet, etc.) is in the public realm and no longer a “private conversation” but let me ask this. This woman was an apprentice to a Christian Chaplain so her views should have been anything but surprising. So how is expressing a view that is in total agreement with the job she holds a violation of anything?

Even the views as she expressed them were not offensive.
There doesn't need to be a violation of any policy for there to be disciplinary action. I've signed no contract or agreement to not shout the 'N' word at customers, but I'd expect to be fired for that action. When it comes to whether or not this was in "total agreement" of her job, she was out of that agreement the second her employers say she is. "Offense" is in the eye of the beholder, and the only one that matters is the employer; if they hadn't been offended, we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

Whether they were really offended or not is kind of immaterial, as well. An employer can discipline you for any reason that isn't protected by law, and Facebook posts aren't protected by law (barring privacy laws, which only apply if they "forced" her to show them a truly private conversation).

Your analyses of the law seems accurate AFAIK and show why we need a federal law protecting employees rights to privacy and free expression. Something like this:

Employers, including federal, state and local government, may not discriminate against, or discipline any employee for their off-duty activities, whether public or not, unless the employee explicitly represents his or herself as a representative of the employer as part of the activity, or the employee has been convicted of a crime related to the activity. Employers may not be held responsible for the off-duty activities of employees unless the employer specifically requested or authorized the activity as a part of the employee's duties.


Without such a law, we are all in danger of losing our first amendment and privacy rights to our employers.

Note that this law would benefit employers as well as employees because it would protect them from any legal consequences and liability for their employee's activities. When an employer is embarrassed by an employee' activity they will be able to honestly say that the law prevents them from doing anything about it.
That would protect employees from doing plenty of stuff that you'd never support; yelling/cursing at customers (not a crime or their duties), getting drunk as a skunk the night before (not a crime or their duties), posting truly derogatory/offensive/threatening rants about co-workers/customers/employers/etc. (absolutely necessary to preserve a safe working environment), screaming the 'N' word in the parking lot just before a shift, etc. There are plenty of things that absolutely shouldn't be protected, that would be under that law.

People should be protected from airing grievances, and most employees are. There should be no "force" to make an employer keep employees that disrupt business. I fully agree that PC has gotten out of hand but, these posts obviously offended coworkers before it got to upper-management; that's all that's required for a lawsuit, so that's why an employer would cover themselves by taking disciplinary action. The only people that would benefit from this proposed law would be bigots and morons; I doubt you would like the new world it creates. People have always been taught to think before they speak, and they shouldn't be protected for doing the opposite.

When it comes to protecting our first amendment and privacy rights, I say they are already protected; you have always had the right to say anything you want, including now, and you've never had the right to keep your job if you offend people, including now. Your rights are just as strong as they have ever been. Privacy is also protected; an employer can't legally force you to show them your social media accounts. If you inadvertently offend someone by your posts, it's self-evidently not a private conversation, or they couldn't have known what you posted. It comes down to ,watch what you say, who you say it to, and don't say anything if you can't do the first two. That's a universal law of common sense, and people shouldn't be given legal protection for having no common sense.
 
To be fair, there is no time when you are not representing Christianity, either. So what happens when the two conflict?


A Chaplain's assistant is not a member of the clergy. A Chaplain's assistant is a clerical/secretarial position providing administrative support to Chaplain's. A Chaplain's assistant does not need to be ordained as a member of any clergy, as a matter of fact you can be an atheist and be a Chaplain's Assistant (although I don't know why they would want the job). Unlike a Chaplain that must be ordained.

56M--Chaplain Assistant
Requirements | goarmy.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467004575463833265055248.html

NOTE: "RP2" is a Navy Chaplains Assistant or in other words a Religious Program Specialist Second Class (Petty Officer 2nd).


To be fair, there is no time when you are not representing Christianity, either. So what happens when the two conflict?

There are processes to file a grievance and receive clarification concerning policies, orders, and standing instructions that you may not understand. That isn't saying that you must agree with them, but they will be happy to explain the standards of conduct that are expected.

If you find that you cannot conform to the expected standards of conduct then enlisted people are free not to reenlist and officers can resign their commission at the end of any obligated service.



>>>>
 
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“For those fearing alleged crackdowns on military personnel who support traditional marriage, an unnamed soldier’s story will raise some eyebrows.

A female Army chaplain’s assistant recently came forward, telling conservative commentator Todd Starnes that she was reprimanded for posting a message on her personal Facebook page. In it, she called homosexuality a sin and spoke out against pastors who support same-sexrelationships…

…as a result of her post, she was accused of creating an environment that was both hostile and antagonistic. But the boldest claim she makes is that her commander gave her a choice: Either take the message down or be knocked down in both rank and pay.”

So a couple of concerns are expressed in this article.

1. Can someone in the military be denied their 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Amendment Rights to free speech when they are not representing the military?

2. In light of DOMA being struck down by the Supreme Court what happens to Christian Chaplains who support only the traditional view of marriage (between one man and one woman) and refuse to lead a same-sex “marriage” ceremony?

If I'm in the military and I post pro-anarchist or pro-communist messages, I'm gonna get in trouble too .... will you stand up for me then?
 


Fair enough. However, this woman (I'm assuming as she is a chaplain's assistant) is a member of the Christian Clergy. To be fair, there is no time when you are not representing Christianity, either. So what happens when the two conflict?

You leave the military.
 
“For those fearing alleged crackdowns on military personnel who support traditional marriage, an unnamed soldier’s story will raise some eyebrows.

A female Army chaplain’s assistant recently came forward, telling conservative commentator Todd Starnes that she was reprimanded for posting a message on her personal Facebook page. In it, she called homosexuality a sin and spoke out against pastors who support same-sexrelationships…

…as a result of her post, she was accused of creating an environment that was both hostile and antagonistic. But the boldest claim she makes is that her commander gave her a choice: Either take the message down or be knocked down in both rank and pay.”

So a couple of concerns are expressed in this article.

1. Can someone in the military be denied their 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Amendment Rights to free speech when they are not representing the military?

2. In light of DOMA being struck down by the Supreme Court what happens to Christian Chaplains who support only the traditional view of marriage (between one man and one woman) and refuse to lead a same-sex “marriage” ceremony?

1. As long as you are on active duty then 24 hours a day 7 days a week your ARE in the military. It's not like a civilian job where for 8 hours a day you work, then you are free to do and say whatever. When you take your oath it clearly states your liberty limitations.

2. This young woman was not a Chaplain she was an enlisted soldier serving as a Chaplain's assistant. As for Chaplain's performing marriage ceremonies? No one is "assigned" to do them, any Chaplain can perform one as long as the soldiers qualify for a marriage license. I'm sure they could find someone to do it if the military ever began to sanction same-sex marriages.
 
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