Check your electrical outlets.

[vesper]

Evening DPers. Something happened to me a couple of months ago that I felt important to pass on to you.
Now for months I have been bitching about redoing a tired old powder room hoping hubby would just hire it out but no he has always been a do it yourself kind of guy even at the age of 71. Every time we hire out work to be done he ends up bitching about the end product. He insists on doing it himself because he can that means I am in it neck deep with things he expects me to do. I'm tired of that rodeo. I am going to be 67. We can afford to have people do the work but he refuses if he can still do it himself. Well he finally got tired of my bitching and started to do the work in the powder room.

Because of my bitching, he discovered an outlet in the bathroom that we never use running so hot that you could not even touch it. The wires on the inside were frying. It was ready to start an electrical fire. You see my bitching ended up preventing a fire.

So heads up and take the time to check all your outlets. If they seem warm to hot you have a problem. We will be done with the bathroom tomorrow and it looks fantastic. A lot of work but hey the house didn't burn down.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

What kind of wiring do you have?
Is your house up to current code with three prong polarized safety outlets?
Does your house have aluminum electrical wiring?
Did you discover the CAUSE of that outlet's warmth? What was the cause?

 

[eohrnberger]

What kind of wiring do you have?
Is your house up to current code with three prong polarized safety outlets?
Does your house have aluminum electrical wiring?
Did you discover the CAUSE of that outlet's warmth? What was the cause?

All good questions there Checker.

Whenever doing any wiring, you always check with one of these:

Power Gear 3-Wire Receptacle Tester-50542 - The Home Depot

It tells you if you've made any mistakes in the wiring. It may not be fool proof or perfect, but it's really cheap insurance.

Vesper, perhaps you can give one of these to your DYI hubby? That is if he hasn't already got one?

 

[OldFatGuy]

Outlets have a life expectancy of 15-25 years, but have been known to fail after 5 years. New outlets now have their own circuit breakers, with a reset button in the front for easy access when triggered if running too hot. I have replaced all electrical outlets in my home every ten years, regardless of use or wear. Quality units can be purchased for as little $25 each. Average licensed electrician charges are $75 per hour. Not really a do it yourself job tho it may seem simple.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Evening DPers. Something happened to me a couple of months ago that I felt important to pass on to you.
Now for months I have been bitching about redoing a tired old powder room hoping hubby would just hire it out but no he has always been a do it yourself kind of guy even at the age of 71. Every time we hire out work to be done he ends up bitching about the end product. He insists on doing it himself because he can that means I am in it neck deep with things he expects me to do. I'm tired of that rodeo. I am going to be 67. We can afford to have people do the work but he refuses if he can still do it himself. Well he finally got tired of my bitching and started to do the work in the powder room.

Because of my bitching, he discovered an outlet in the bathroom that we never use running so hot that you could not even touch it. The wires on the inside were frying. It was ready to start an electrical fire. You see my bitching ended up preventing a fire.

So heads up and take the time to check all your outlets. If they seem warm to hot you have a problem. We will be done with the bathroom tomorrow and it looks fantastic. A lot of work but hey the house didn't burn down.

Finding one problem electrical outlet/switch should be cause to check the rest. Having an unused (and undamaged) outlet/switch fail would seem to indicate loose wiring connections to the outlet/switch causing an arc across the (tiny) air gap created. This was a common problem with aluminium wiring (used for some residential branch circuits between 1965 and 1973) which is why it is no longer used (except for stranded service entrance cable).

 

[vesper]

What kind of wiring do you have?
Is your house up to current code with three prong polarized safety outlets?
Does your house have aluminum electrical wiring?
Did you discover the CAUSE of that outlet's warmth? What was the cause?

All good questions. No we do not have aluminum electrical wiring. In the bathrooms and kitchen we have the three prong safety outlets. The cause turned out to be a bad outlet. We have lived here for more than 30 years. Hubby cut out the burnt wire and installed a new outlet and everything is good. You see even "safety" outlets can go bad.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Finding one problem electrical outlet/switch should be cause to check the rest. Having an unused (and undamaged) outlet/switch fail would seem to indicate loose wiring connections to the outlet/switch causing an arc across the (tiny) air gap created. This was a common problem with aluminium wiring (used for some residential branch circuits between 1965 and 1973) which is why it is no longer used (except for stranded service entrance cable).

^^^ Yep, this.

If one of them that you never expected to fry was about to go, they ALL need to be checked, esp. if they're all original and went in at the same time.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

All good questions there Checker.

Whenever doing any wiring, you always check with one of these:

Power Gear 3-Wire Receptacle Tester-50542 - The Home Depot

I have one. I have a bunch of test gear, much of which is collecting dust these days because I am no longer able to climb into an attic without a lot of pain. I used to install a lot of IT cabling AND electrical. It was my fallback career after my post production and duplication outfit got wiped out in the 1994 Northridge Quake.
It took me about six or seven years to restart my video career full time.

 

[OldFatGuy]

BTW, my wife recently "redid" our main bathroom. Emerald green accents everywhere. Dark green wall tiles. Green granite sink. Dark green toilet seat. Green towels. Just what I want to see first thing in the morning. Green. My ugly green face when I shave. Ugh. At least she didn't go pink.

 

[ttwtt78640]

All good questions. No we do not have aluminum electrical wiring. In the bathrooms and kitchen we have the three prong safety outlets. The cause turned out to be a bad outlet. We have lived here for more than 30 years. Hubby cut out the burnt wire and installed a new outlet and everything is good. You see even "safety" outlets can go bad.

I believe that CbS was referring to a GFCI outlet as being a "safety outlet". If only the kitchen and bath have been "upgraded" to grounded outlets they may not even be GFCI protected which is now a code requirement. If an unused outlet/switch was bad it would be wise to replace them all - do not, under any circumstances, place a grounded (three prong) outlet on a non-grounded branch circuit.

 

[vesper]

Finding one problem electrical outlet/switch should be cause to check the rest. Having an unused (and undamaged) outlet/switch fail would seem to indicate loose wiring connections to the outlet/switch causing an arc across the (tiny) air gap created. This was a common problem with aluminium wiring (used for some residential branch circuits between 1965 and 1973) which is why it is no longer used (except for stranded service entrance cable).

All good points. The outlet itself even though never used after 30 years went bad. You are darn right that all outlets need to be checked and he did that with all the gizmos he possesses.

 

[chuckiechan]

All good questions. No we do not have aluminum electrical wiring. In the bathrooms and kitchen we have the three prong safety outlets. The cause turned out to be a bad outlet. We have lived here for more than 30 years. Hubby cut out the burnt wire and installed a new outlet and everything is good. You see even "safety" outlets can go bad.

Too me, what is strange here is that your voltage draw was less than required to trip the breaker, but enough to heat up the plug. So if you had a 15amp breaker, you must have been shorting out with enough resistance to keep it below 15 amps continuous.

 

[vesper]

I believe that CbS was referring to a GFCI outlet as being a "safety outlet". If only the kitchen and bath have been "upgraded" to grounded outlets they may not even be GFCI protected which is now a code requirement. If an unused outlet/switch was bad it would be wise to replace them all - do not, under any circumstances, place a grounded (three prong) outlet on a non-grounded branch circuit.

He installed the same outlet that was there for 30 years. He has checked all the other outlets and everything looks good.

 

[ttwtt78640]

He installed the same outlet that was there for 30 years. He has checked all the other outlets and everything looks good.

I have seen many grounded (three prong) outlets installed (by "frugal" homeowners/ tenants) without a ground wire included in the branch circuit. See post #3 - if that basic test device fails or can't even be used because you have a (two prong) ungrounded outlet then you need to call an electrician.

 

[vesper]

Too me, what is strange here is that your voltage draw was less than required to trip the breaker, but enough to heat up the plug. So if you had a 15amp breaker, you must have been shorting out with enough resistance to keep it below 15 amps continuous.

I don't know about that one Chuckie, all I know is for two months there has been no heat on that outlet since he changed it out and no other outlets throughout the house are showing any problems. My goal in this thread was to make posters aware and check their outlets. It isn't something most people do. But if they did it could hopefully stop an electrical fire.

 

[vesper]

ttwtt Hubby knows what he is doing. He has cut in many an outlet, installed light fixtures, fans etc and everything has been grounded. Over the years I have learned so much from him that I installed a new light fixture on the front porch by myself. He inspected my work and gave me kudos. Years ago while he was working a lot of overtime, the sink in the kitchen sprouted a leak. After all these years I knew what to do so I went to the hardware store and changed out the p-trap. The guy was working his butt off to come up with the money to take his family on an awesome vacation. It was the least I could do.

 

[vesper]

I have seen many grounded (three prong) outlets installed (by "frugal" homeowners/ tenants) without a ground wire included in the branch circuit. See post #3 - if that basic test device fails or can't even be used because you have a (two prong) ungrounded outlet then you need to call an electrician.

ttwtt Hubby knows what he is doing. He has cut in many an outlet, installed light fixtures, fans etc and everything has been grounded. Over the years I have learned so much from him that I installed a new light fixture on the front porch by myself. He inspected my work and gave me kudos. Years ago while he was working a lot of overtime, the sink in the kitchen sprouted a leak. After all these years I knew what to do so I went to the hardware store and changed out the p-trap. The guy was working his butt off to come up with the money to take his family on an awesome vacation. It was the least I could do.

 

[vesper]

Folks please check your outlets. In all my almost 67 years on this earth I never thought to check an outlet. If any of them feel warm to hot you have a problem. Electrical fires are one of the worst. The walls of your home are destroyed from within. Please, please please just do it.

 

[eohrnberger]

I have one. I have a bunch of test gear, much of which is collecting dust these days because I am no longer able to climb into an attic without a lot of pain. I used to install a lot of IT cabling AND electrical. It was my fallback career after my post production and duplication outfit got wiped out in the 1994 Northridge Quake.
It took me about six or seven years to restart my video career full time.

Be well and prosper, Checkers. I wish you all the best.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Be well and prosper, Checkers. I wish you all the best.

Well thank you, plenty prosperous. Being well...ehhh, mixed bag.
To quote Willie Nelson, "ya get old, **** breaks".

I've got the knees of Joe Namath, ankles like a drunken old British pensioner lady, hips like Leon Russell, frying pans for ears and eyes which are only still good for driving but not good enough to snap focus instantly on a professional movie or TV shoot like I used to. And I'm sporting a belly that deserves beer, but I don't drink.

Strangely enough, I have NO back or shoulder problems of any kind, as I can still pick my wife up (or a 120 lb equipment case) with one arm if need be. I can even hoist such cases into a grip truck and onto a shelf with one arm if need be.
And that doesn't do much good if I can only take eight or ten steps without my lower half creaking, snapping and whining in agony.

Not much market for 63 year old half deaf/half blind Directors of Photography with bad hips, knees and ankles, so I am semi-retired under protest.

The only guy I ever knew that frail who still managed to make a go of it till his dying day was Haskell Wexler but I don't quite have his awards and recognition. (Don't I wish)
And when you DO have that much cred, any number of twenty five year olds will do anything to be your helper.

Sorry for the thread drift, I still get to edit some small stuff here and there.

My wife Karen meeting Haskell Wexler

 

[eohrnberger]

Well thank you, plenty prosperous. Being well...ehhh, mixed bag.
To quote Willie Nelson, "ya get old, **** breaks".

Oh God, ain't that the truth!

I've got the knees of Joe Namath, ankles like a drunken old British pensioner lady, hips like Leon Russell, frying pans for ears and eyes which are only still good for driving but not good enough to snap focus instantly on a professional movie or TV shoot like I used to. And I'm sporting a belly that deserves beer, but I don't drink.

Strangely enough, I have NO back or shoulder problems of any kind, as I can still pick my wife up (or a 120 lb equipment case) with one arm if need be. I can even hoist such cases into a grip truck and onto a shelf with one arm if need be.

Awesome! Be glad for that!

And that doesn't do much good if I can only take eight or ten steps without my lower half creaking, snapping and whining in agony.

Ouch!

Not much market for 63 year old half deaf/half blind Directors of Photography with bad hips, knees and ankles, so I am semi-retired under protest.

Never stop protesting! Never give in. Innovate! Innovate your way around your challenges!
I see this in my 8x year old dad every time I visit with him (now the week of the 4th at the cottage - kinda keeping an eye on on him, helping him out, he loves it so much up here - and I don't blame him a bit - its beautiful up here).

The only guy I ever knew that frail who still managed to make a go of it till his dying day was Haskell Wexler but I don't quite have his awards and recognition. (Don't I wish)
And when you DO have that much cred, any number of twenty five year olds will do anything to be your helper.

Sorry for the thread drift, I still get to edit some small stuff here and there.

Oh hell, I wouldn't worry about it. After all, us 'life experienced guys' kinda need to stick together.
I mean don't we? Who else is going to keep off the 'young turks?'

My wife Karen meeting Haskell Wexler

View attachment 67259387

Nice. Wishing you both the best.

 

[beerftw]

Finding one problem electrical outlet/switch should be cause to check the rest. Having an unused (and undamaged) outlet/switch fail would seem to indicate loose wiring connections to the outlet/switch causing an arc across the (tiny) air gap created. This was a common problem with aluminium wiring (used for some residential branch circuits between 1965 and 1973) which is why it is no longer used (except for stranded service entrance cable).

Aluminum solid wiring is a bastard to deal with. There was an apartment complex not to far from where I live that caught on fire, the insurance company tried tooth and nail to deny coverage because the aluminum wiring had an improper splice, and they determined the splice was the start of the fire where the copper and aluminum meet. What saved his ass was he had detailed down to the finest details the maintenance records since he bought it, and shown all his repairs were in compliance meaning the previous owner was the one cutting corners.

The aluminum wiring gets loose connections but seeing copper wire does not mean it is all copper. The copper to alumin splice is safe and accepted if done properly but many never did a proper one and went the cheap route to kick the can down the road, meaning the fire will start at the splice instead of the outlet. Copper with a loose connection can do the same however copper simply tends to hold steady over the years while solid aluminum resonates causing loose connections needing a special splice to ensure no future problems.

 

[beerftw]

Evening DPers. Something happened to me a couple of months ago that I felt important to pass on to you.
Now for months I have been bitching about redoing a tired old powder room hoping hubby would just hire it out but no he has always been a do it yourself kind of guy even at the age of 71. Every time we hire out work to be done he ends up bitching about the end product. He insists on doing it himself because he can that means I am in it neck deep with things he expects me to do. I'm tired of that rodeo. I am going to be 67. We can afford to have people do the work but he refuses if he can still do it himself. Well he finally got tired of my bitching and started to do the work in the powder room.

Because of my bitching, he discovered an outlet in the bathroom that we never use running so hot that you could not even touch it. The wires on the inside were frying. It was ready to start an electrical fire. You see my bitching ended up preventing a fire.

So heads up and take the time to check all your outlets. If they seem warm to hot you have a problem. We will be done with the bathroom tomorrow and it looks fantastic. A lot of work but hey the house didn't burn down.

I make a habit of checking all my outlets periodically for heat, except the one by my dryer which always gets hot because it is so close to the metal siding, so it's heat is always high during the day so I only check it at night a while after the sun goes down. I live in a single wide built in the late 50's one of the first models to actually look like a mobile home rather than a slightly oversized travel trailer, and even with copper wiring things can work loose over many decades.

edit: do not assume no aluminum wiring because you do not see it on the switch unless you owned the home since it was built, they can do copper to aluminum splices which are safe if done properly but equally a fire hazard if done improperly.

 

[vesper]

I make a habit of checking all my outlets periodically for heat, except the one by my dryer which always gets hot because it is so close to the metal siding, so it's heat is always high during the day so I only check it at night a while after the sun goes down. I live in a single wide built in the late 50's one of the first models to actually look like a mobile home rather than a slightly oversized travel trailer, and even with copper wiring things can work loose over many decades.

edit: do not assume no aluminum wiring because you do not see it on the switch unless you owned the home since it was built, they can do copper to aluminum splices which are safe if done properly but equally a fire hazard if done improperly.

Good for you! It is something I never concerned myself with but not anymore. It could have ended very badly. I know there is no aluminum wiring as we had the home built. In Ohio even 30 years ago aluminum wire did not meet code.

 

[Nuber]

Outlets have a life expectancy of 15-25 years, but have been known to fail after 5 years. New outlets now have their own circuit breakers, with a reset button in the front for easy access when triggered if running too hot. I have replaced all electrical outlets in my home every ten years, regardless of use or wear. Quality units can be purchased for as little $25 each. Average licensed electrician charges are $75 per hour. Not really a do it yourself job tho it may seem simple.

I know that I am late to this thread, but as electrician is my main profession, I thought that I would chime in.

Some terms (layman version) -

Breaker - provides overcurrent protection and is located in a panel or box. This prevents the user from melting wiring or components due to too much loading.

Outlet - a point where electricity is used (to the layperson and outlet is the same as a receptacle, but it is not). A light fixture, for example, is installed at an outlet.

Receptacle - any device that you "plug something into in order to use electricity". Neither a switch nor a light fixture is a receptacle - a receptacle "receives" a plug and cord.

GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. This is most commonly a receptacle that has a test and reset button on the face. GFCI breakers are made as well as other less common versions of GFCI devices. A GFCI essentially measures current differential so if current in and out are not equal, it trips or shuts down.

In the real world, a receptacle with a test button is more than likely a GFCI receptacle. GFCI devices are only required in a house to be installed in location where water may be present - bathrooms, kitchens, garages, outside, etc. The rest of the house can have normal receptacles installed and be code compliant. Keep in mind that a GFCI receptacle can protect receptacles downstream - a common example would be a house with 2 bathrooms and has 1 receptacle installed in each. A GFCI may only be found in 1 bathroom and not the other, but the receptacle in the second bathroom is fed from the first (thus the 2nd bathroom has a GFCI protected receptacle).