Chauvin defense raises more reasonable doubt with state witnesses

[Luckyone]

Since you have obviously already decided what his eventual opinion would be, then why bother to ask? What should have been asked of the ME witness by the defense was: what effect did the officer (not yet on trial) putting pressure on GF’s back while his chest was on the pavement have on GF’s ability to breathe?

I always want people to "state" publicly and officially what they would do when they stated the kind of statements he has made. If he does that, in the future he cannot say that he was misquoted, not understood what he meants, etc. Take a stance and live by it. Most people (especially Trump supporters) have a habit of pooh-poohing things stated in the past as not true, misunderstood, taken out of context, etc.

Be a person true to your beliefs and stand by your words for the good or the bad.

 

[ttwtt78640]

that cannot be the standard of justice... 1) let people riot if they want, 2) and cities and states should stop them but we cannot let mob rule determine justice in this country. 3) once we do that, we are a banana republic for sure.

1) and 3) are the same thing being stated in slightly different terms. Obviously, the “banana republic” of Minneapolis. MN expects more rioting, looting and arson or they would not have pre-deployed the NG “just in case”.

2) Is my point - the rioting, looting and arson were not stopped and occurred in many different cities and states. The jury is essentially being placed in the position of sacrificing the freedom of one (already considered guilty?) LEO in exchange for preventing (or at least greatly limiting) the next (and more serious?) round of (nationwide?) rioting, looting and arson over the death of one person in police custody.

 

[longview]

if any media source allows those to be published in any manner there should be hell to pay.

I agree, but that does not mean it will not leak out.
Remember the Rodney King riots were about a not guilty verdict.

 

[Luckyone]

1) and 3) are the same thing being stated in slightly different terms. Obviously, the “banana republic” of Minneapolis. MN expects more rioting, looting and arson or they would not have pre-deployed the NG “just in case”.

2) Is my point - the rioting, looting and arson were not stopped and occurred in many different cities and states. The jury is essentially being placed in the position of sacrificing the freedom of one (already considered guilty?) LEO in exchange for preventing (or at least greatly limiting) the next (and more serious?) round of (nationwide?) rioting, looting and arson over the death of one person in police custody.

There is absolutely no question the man is "guilty". All facts point to that. The defense is relying on "beyond reasonable doubt" but not relying on proving guilt that he did or did not cause the death of Floyd is not in play. Floyd would be alive if Chauvin had not done what he did. Whether it is 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder or Manslaughter is the only question that is being discussed. It is incorrect and to be punished what Chauvin did. There is 0 doubt about it.

 

[snakestretcher]

To be precise, both private autopsies said asphixia was the cause, while the state piliminary autopsy said "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation". Which the offical cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest.

...as a result of oxygen deprivation.

 

[snakestretcher]

Yes I am aware. Homicide is always the cause of death when someone else is involved. That doesn’t mean it’s legally homicide.

What are talking about? Homicide is the legal definition for a death caused by another.

Definition of HOMICIDE

a person who kills another; a killing of one human being by another… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Josie]

What are talking about? Homicide is the legal definition for a death caused by another.

Definition of HOMICIDE

a person who kills another; a killing of one human being by another… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Medical examiners don’t make legal decisions. It’s a medical one. https://forensicresources.org/2019/homicide-manner-of-death-vs-legal-conclusion/

 

[snakestretcher]

Medical examiners don’t make legal decisions. It’s a medical one. https://forensicresources.org/2019/homicide-manner-of-death-vs-legal-conclusion/

Yes, a medical decision based on the physical evidence presented. Medical examiners work by systematically eliminating possible causes of death until a definitive conclusion is reached. In Floyd's death that conclusion, like Occam's razor, was homicide.

 

[Josie]

Yes, a medical decision based on the physical evidence presented. Medical examiners work by systematically eliminating possible causes of death until a definitive conclusion is reached. In Floyd's death that conclusion, like Occam's razor, was homicide.

Yes. Just like if a woman shot a man who was trying to kill her, that’s a homicide. He died by someone else’s hand. But that doesn’t mean it’s legally a homicide.

 

[snakestretcher]

Yes. Just like if a woman shot a man who was trying to kill her, that’s a homicide. He died by someone else’s hand. But that doesn’t mean it’s legally a homicide.

A 'homicide' can be murder of varying degrees, and manslaughter. Some are even legal, like self-defense. Where does Floyd's fall, in your opinion?

 

[Josie]

A 'homicide' can be murder of varying degrees, and manslaughter. Some are even legal, like self-defense.

Yes, I know. That's what I told you.

Where does Floyd's fall, in your opinion?

Not sure yet. The trial isn't over.

 

[Josie]

(This post was blank)

?

 

[snakestretcher]

Yes, I know. That's what I told you.



Not sure yet. The trial isn't over.

Given that all the evidence is now in the public domain, don't you have an opinion based on what you know? Oh, and if you had said 'lawfully homicide' rather than 'legally..., it would have been clearer. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Josie]

Given that all the evidence is now in the public domain, don't you have an opinion based on what you know?

I'm watching/listening to the trial. It isn't over yet, therefore, I don't have all of the information.

What's your conclusion?

 

[snakestretcher]

I'm watching/listening to the trial. It isn't over yet, therefore, I don't have all of the information.

What's your conclusion?

I think manslaughter will be the verdict once attorneys have consulted and done their deals. Nothing in the evidence provided so far points to his death being lawful.

 

[Josie]

I think manslaughter will be the verdict once attorneys have consulted and done their deals. Nothing in the evidence provided so far points to his death being lawful.

I do agree with that.

 

[KLATTU]

LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 11 – Has State Eliminated Reasonable Doubt As Case Nears End?

Reasonable Doubt Before Defense Even Begins Is Bad For Conviction

legalinsurrection.com

First, the state has to prove that Chauvin’s conduct was a significant contributory cause of Floyd’s death—that would be sufficient for the third-degree murder charge.
because there’s a second condition that must also be met in order for that conduct that may have made a significant contribution to Floyd’s death to be a crime—the conduct itself must in some manner be legally wrongful. If the conduct was lawful, it cannot be the basis for criminal liability.

LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 11 – Has State Eliminated Reasonable Doubt As Case Nears End?

Reasonable Doubt Before Defense Even Begins Is Bad For Conviction

legalinsurrection.com

It's not hard to guess what the defense strategy will be,
That Chauvin acted within his duty when subduing George Floyd with his knee.
And you can bet they are going to call expert witnesses that will say that.
Will the jury buy it?
Time will tell.

 

[calamity]

I think manslaughter will be the verdict once attorneys have consulted and done their deals. Nothing in the evidence provided so far points to his death being lawful.

A manslaughter conviction is the likely outcome. I haven't seen enough yet to indicate an intent to kill, which would be the bar for proving murder charges. A saw a cop being a dick, and a guy dying as a result--manslaughter.

 

[Excast]

A manslaughter conviction is the likely outcome. I haven't seen enough yet to indicate an intent to kill, which would be the bar for proving murder charges. A saw a cop being a dick, and a guy dying as a result--manslaughter.

I could get that if Chauvin gets up when Floyd becomes unresponsive. But when he is unconscious? When he has no discernable pulse and you are still kneeling on his neck for minutes more? That shows intent to me. It's when something that could be written off as an accident becomes something more nefarious.

 

[Buckeyes85]

Nope. I have no clue what the jury is or isn't buying. I only hope justice prevails.

And do you have an opinion on what justice would be in this situation?

 

[Buckeyes85]

A manslaughter conviction is the likely outcome. I haven't seen enough yet to indicate an intent to kill, which would be the bar for proving murder charges. A saw a cop being a dick, and a guy dying as a result--manslaughter.

That does not accurately reflect the charges Chauvin is facing.
In fact the 2nd degree murder charge specifically does not require intent to kill. Instead, the prosecution has to show beyond reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him, i.e. while committing a felony. Still a high burden but nowhere near as high as proving he actually intended to kill him.

 

[KLATTU]

And do you have an opinion on what justice would be in this situation?

Already answered. Wait until all the evidence is in.
I'm into justice , not social justice.

 

[Buckeyes85]

Already answered. Wait until all the evidence is in.
I'm into justice , not social justice.

We don't have much choice but to wait for the evidence but you certainly seem to be advocating for Chauvin's innocence.

And in response, please don't mention the "innocent until proven guilty" line.

 

[KLATTU]

And in response, please don't mention the "innocent until proven guilty" line.

omg ! not that BS. You saw the video-he's gulity.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

...as a result of oxygen deprivation.

Dr. Andrew Baker, the chief medical examiner, said Floyd had severe underlying heart disease and an enlarged heart that needed more oxygen than normal to function, as well as narrowing of his coronary arteries.

Meaning heart disease contributed to his death.