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It is time to stop having the same circular conversation:
Change of Subject: Getting to 'Yes, but...' on the Zimmerman verdict
What is the point of that oped?
It's a circular conversation because there's broad disagreement on some fundamentals. I don't think we'll ever get beyond it because it's a convergence of two incompatible cultures.
Yes, Zimmerman benefited, perhaps greatly, from the requirement that the jury find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
Yes, it was beyond horrible that an African-American teenager merely walking home from the convenience store was mistakenly profiled as a criminal and ended up shot to death
Yes, Zimmerman might have been found guilty if he'd been African-American
Yes Florida's “stand your ground” law seems designed to exacerbate rather than mitigate heated confrontations
Yes those defending the jury's decision to acquit Zimmerman are failing to consider the historical context of discrimination and racism
Yes , many of those expressing outrage at the verdict have plenty to be outraged about
It's a circular conversation because no one is listening.
What is the point of that oped?
It's a circular conversation because no one is listening.
The only change of discussion I would like is for media to stop presenting TM as the all American hero worthy of praise and honor when in fact he was thief, user, gang banging, THUG. Once we can be honest about this kids place in the world we can have honest discussions about encouraging young people to call the police, ask for help, and be respectful of others. Until then any discussion about this case is race baiting and pathetic.
I'm listening, er, reading. I hear people talking about how Zimmerman was guilty because he should have stayed in his car. That's not just noise. That's an outlook on life that is utterly foreign to me and my culture. I would never accept that premise. What common ground is there to be found?
That's a lot of conjecture considering that chance are you never met him, spoke to him, or knew about him until you turned on the tv to Fox news and they fed you that. I'm not going to claim that TM was a perfect kid, I'm not going to claim that I knew him, I'm not going to claim TM never did anything wrong, but what I will claim is that you and I don't know the half of it. The media skewed him to best suit their political agendas. If you turn to MSNBC he is a pioneer for racial equality, and if you turn on Fox he is the devil. Instead of believing the worst of TM why don't you give him the same benefit of the doubt you gave GZ. You don't know what happened that night, you don't know about his life, all you know is his skin color and unfortunately that all you want to know. I would love to know where you got that he was a gang-banging thug. I would love to know where you got he was a thief. I would love to know where you got he was a user (using once doesn't define a user).
PS- I support the verdict in the case, I just don't like seeing people stereotyping and ripping on people that aren't here to defend themselves.
That's a lot of conjecture considering that chance are you never met him, spoke to him, or knew about him until you turned on the tv to Fox news and they fed you that. I'm not going to claim that TM was a perfect kid, I'm not going to claim that I knew him, I'm not going to claim TM never did anything wrong, but what I will claim is that you and I don't know the half of it. The media skewed him to best suit their political agendas. If you turn to MSNBC he is a pioneer for racial equality, and if you turn on Fox he is the devil. Instead of believing the worst of TM why don't you give him the same benefit of the doubt you gave GZ. You don't know what happened that night, you don't know about his life, all you know is his skin color and unfortunately that all you want to know. I would love to know where you got that he was a gang-banging thug. I would love to know where you got he was a thief. I would love to know where you got he was a user (using once doesn't define a user).
PS- I support the verdict in the case, I just don't like seeing people stereotyping and ripping on people that aren't here to defend themselves.
Understood, but we do know he was caught before with burglary tools and jewelry he'd couldn't account for. We also know he was on suspension for bringing pot and pipe to school.
It is time to stop having the same circular conversation:
Change of Subject: Getting to 'Yes, but...' on the Zimmerman verdict
Yes, we'll never know for sure what happened along that dark walkway where Zimmerman and Martin encountered one another and the fatal fight began, but no amount of speculation and accusation will ever change that.
Yes, Zimmerman benefited, perhaps greatly, from the requirement that the jury find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but this heavy burden on the prosecution is a feature of our justice system, not a bug.
Yes, it was beyond horrible that an African-American teenager merely walking home from the convenience store was mistakenly profiled as a criminal and ended up shot to death, but it was a freakish tragedy, not part of an ominous pattern of gun-toting neighborhood watch volunteers sallying into fatal confrontations with unarmed youths.
Yes, Zimmerman might have been found guilty if he'd been African-American, but that's an argument for making sure black defendants get the same benefit of the doubt and strong defense in front of a skeptical, impartial jury that Zimmerman got, not an argument for lowering our standards of justice.
Yes Florida's “stand your ground” law seems designed to exacerbate rather than mitigate heated confrontations, may have helped create the climate that allowed this misunderstanding to get out of hand and should be carefully reviewed by lawmakers, but Zimmerman's defense team never invoked “stand your ground” and indeed argued that Zimmerman never had a chance to retreat once Martin attacked him. (I discussed stand your ground at length in this post)
Yes those defending the jury's decision to acquit Zimmerman are failing to consider the historical context of discrimination and racism that turned this case into a cause celebre in the first place, but a criminal trial is not the venue to litigate society’s broader failings.
Yes, Zimmerman had become a symbol for oafish racism and convicting him would have marked a symbolic victory in the struggle for justice, but the ugliest chapters in the history of our courts have been written when we’ve turned defendants into symbols and convicted them to satisfy the angry masses.
That's a lot of conjecture considering that chance are you never met him, spoke to him, or knew about him until you turned on the tv to Fox news and they fed you that. I'm not going to claim that TM was a perfect kid, I'm not going to claim that I knew him, I'm not going to claim TM never did anything wrong, but what I will claim is that you and I don't know the half of it. The media skewed him to best suit their political agendas. If you turn to MSNBC he is a pioneer for racial equality, and if you turn on Fox he is the devil. Instead of believing the worst of TM why don't you give him the same benefit of the doubt you gave GZ. You don't know what happened that night, you don't know about his life, all you know is his skin color and unfortunately that all you want to know. I would love to know where you got that he was a gang-banging thug. I would love to know where you got he was a thief. I would love to know where you got he was a user (using once doesn't define a user).
PS- I support the verdict in the case, I just don't like seeing people stereotyping and ripping on people that aren't here to defend themselves.
It is time to stop having the same circular conversation:
Change of Subject: Getting to 'Yes, but...' on the Zimmerman verdict
Maybe we could talk about making the US Justice system work the same for everyone?
"Charity is no substitute for justice withheld." ~ St. Augustine of Hippo
What conjecture?
Fact he was into MJ use and had it in his system when he died.
Fact he had a friend who was a gang leader, and posted about his fighting prowess,
Fact he was suspended from school,
Fact he was found in school to be in possession of stolen property and burglary tools
Fact he assaulted another man who killed him
Not one conjecture. I don't even need to have met him to know he was a THUG.
According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, the drug is also known to cause “aggressiveness” and “hallucinations,” among other problematic symptoms.
Fact: You have no idea how the marijuana got there, it could have been baked into a cookie or brownie that he ate unknowingly.
Fact: I have friends that have done bad things including illegal drugs, that doesn't make me a bad person. (ps the video was not of him or a friend assaulting anybody, the evidence was recanted because it was a video of two homeless people fighting over a bike)
Fact: I know somebody who once got suspended for bringing advil to school, they found TRACES of marijuana in a bag on his person, no actual marijuana, could have easily been a mistake
Fact: He was never charged and it was never proven that the jewelry was stolen, the only use for a screwdriver isn't breaking into things.
Fact: He was being followed by a man on Tamezapam (see below) and it was a dark night while he was not doing anything wrong. Nobody knows exactly who started the fight, but we know for a fact that TM ran away.
What conjecture?
Fact he was into MJ use and had it in his system when he died.
Fact he had a friend who was a gang leader, and posted about his fighting prowess,
Fact he was suspended from school,
Fact he was found in school to be in possession of stolen property and burglary tools
Fact he assaulted another man who killed him
Not one conjecture. I don't even need to have met him to know he was a THUG.
And finally your bigoted comments about me and TMs race are offensive as hell. Get a life and stop posting such hatred about others to which you know nothing. That was conjecture and either prove it or apologize. I have risked my life in defense of others starting out by investigating and helping lock up 7 violent racist who still threaten me and my family today. YOU?
You idiocricy knows no bounds. None of your facts relate to TM each of mine DID in fact include TM. The kid was a thug. The fact you refuse to admit it shows there is no reason for discussion or dialog. There is nothing else to overcome with you because your leftist blinders of hatred are so thick you'll never see the losers for what they are - LOSERS and THUGS. I feel sorry for his parents just like I feel sorry for Scott Peterson's parents. Any parent that raises a thug and a loser I feel bad for, but I am glad GZ was able to defend himself from such a loser human and that our society has rules and laws that protect people - who protect themselves from such THUGS.
Maybe we could talk about making the US Justice system work the same for everyone?
"Charity is no substitute for justice withheld." ~ St. Augustine of Hippo
Fact: You have no idea how the marijuana got there, it could have been baked into a cookie or brownie that he ate unknowingly.
Fact: I have friends that have done bad things including illegal drugs, that doesn't make me a bad person. (ps the video was not of him or a friend assaulting anybody, the evidence was recanted because it was a video of two homeless people fighting over a bike)
Fact: I know somebody who once got suspended for bringing advil to school, they found TRACES of marijuana in a bag on his person, no actual marijuana, could have easily been a mistake
Fact: He was never charged and it was never proven that the jewelry was stolen, the only use for a screwdriver isn't breaking into things.
Fact: He was being followed by a man on Tamezapam (see below) and it was a dark night while he was not doing anything wrong. Nobody knows exactly who started the fight, but we know for a fact that TM ran away.
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