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case of necessary medical abortion

Aurora151989

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do your best to not debate this particular case please, I spotted this somewhere and followed it to the original source. Thought this might be the best place to put it.

Abortion Saved My Life « Esoterica

this is where I found it, Abortion needs to be taught in our medical schools : Pharyngula
I added the other link in case you might be interested in the blogs or the comments.

for those who just want a summary, basically this woman was having a placental abruption, 20 week old fetus was dying/dead and no doctors on call were trained in doing abortions I believe.
 
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digsbe

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How can we even know that this story was true?

Almost all pro-life people will agree that abortion to save the life of the mother is justified. Abortion should only be allowed when a C-section cannot be done in order to save both lives.
 

tessaesque

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It won't be an abortion, but my future MIL's step niece is having an induction on Tuesday at 7.5 months. A sonogram has revealed that the baby's kidneys and lungs haven't developed and there is no chance the baby will survive. Incredibly sad. They gave her the option of going to term, but she felt this would be the best course of action.
 

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How can we even know that this story was true?

Almost all pro-life people will agree that abortion to save the life of the mother is justified. Abortion should only be allowed when a C-section cannot be done in order to save both lives.
I assume you mean c-sections of viable infants? A fetus at 20 weeks has no hope of survival.
 

digsbe

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I assume you mean c-sections of viable infants? A fetus at 20 weeks has no hope of survival.
I agree. However if the fetus is viable I would opt for a c-section so that the mother and child may be treated. If a woman has a tubular pregnancy or a serious pregnancy complication before the fetus is viable I support an abortion as a medical procedure.
 

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I agree. However if the fetus is viable I would opt for a c-section so that the mother and child may be treated. If a woman has a tubular pregnancy or a serious pregnancy complication before the fetus is viable I support an abortion as a medical procedure.
A placental abruption is an immediate medical crisis, in which the mother will quickly bleed to death and the fetus has no chance of surviving. The real topic of the OP, if I understand correctly, is that medical schools are being pressured not to teach doctors how to perform abortions in the first place, so a woman experiencing such an immediate crisis may die simply because no physician can be found who knows how to do the procedure. That is wrong, in so many ways. Physicians must have knowledge of all medical procedures that patients may require. It is unfathomable to me that medical schools would allow themselves to be so coerced.
 

Aurora151989

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A placental abruption is an immediate medical crisis, in which the mother will quickly bleed to death and the fetus has no chance of surviving. The real topic of the OP, if I understand correctly, is that medical schools are being pressured not to teach doctors how to perform abortions in the first place, so a woman experiencing such an immediate crisis may die simply because no physician can be found who knows how to do the procedure. That is wrong, in so many ways. Physicians must have knowledge of all medical procedures that patients may require. It is unfathomable to me that medical schools would allow themselves to be so coerced.
The way I saw it was that it's actually doctors, or med students not wanting to learn to do abortions, not med schools being pressured to not teach them.

Either way though, I agree with you.
 

digsbe

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A placental abruption is an immediate medical crisis, in which the mother will quickly bleed to death and the fetus has no chance of surviving. The real topic of the OP, if I understand correctly, is that medical schools are being pressured not to teach doctors how to perform abortions in the first place, so a woman experiencing such an immediate crisis may die simply because no physician can be found who knows how to do the procedure. That is wrong, in so many ways. Physicians must have knowledge of all medical procedures that patients may require. It is unfathomable to me that medical schools would allow themselves to be so coerced.
Most medical schools are actually very basic. From what I understand they usually take 2 years of class work and 2 years of rotations. After rotations, they go into residency's to further their training in a specific area of medicine. I don't think all doctors should be forced to learn how to preform an abortion. However, I am ok with forcing hospitals to have a doctor on staff who can preform an abortion in emergency situations.
 

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I find it hard to believe that even an OBGYN doesn't know how to do one - they ARE necessary sometimes and this situation would have been an emergency - doing a DNC, etc, would be an important aspect of emergency care.

If this situation is true then note that such things can happen in women who are further along, as well - and even during delivery and c-section - even AFTER birth . . . It's not THE most common situation but it DOES happen - it's not horribly rare - so no one in those situations would have been able to do their jobs, either?

If she is in an area that was full of emergency doctors who couldn't handle an emergency I'd really worry about what ELSE they didn't know how to do - and consider moving to a more safe area with people who were not quite so ****ing stupid and poorly trained and uneducated in their medical area of need and interest.
 
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Aurora151989

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I reread the article and saw that the doctor on-call didn't do abortions, I took that as wasn't trained in how to do them.
 

kerussll

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I agree. However if the fetus is viable I would opt for a c-section so that the mother and child may be treated. If a woman has a tubular pregnancy or a serious pregnancy complication before the fetus is viable I support an abortion as a medical procedure.
Well most women who have wanted to remain pregnant that long would want the baby and probably opt for a c-section as well. But our laws do rightfully require consent before doctors can start cutting people open, so with all due respect, it doesn't matter at all what you surgeries you would opt she had.
 

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I agree. However if the fetus is viable I would opt for a c-section so that the mother and child may be treated. If a woman has a tubular pregnancy or a serious pregnancy complication before the fetus is viable I support an abortion as a medical procedure.
I'm not understanding why your options should be relevant to this patient.
 

terafied

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The way I saw it was that it's actually doctors, or med students not wanting to learn to do abortions, not med schools being pressured to not teach them.

Either way though, I agree with you.
The House just voted on a bill to deny federal funding for any medical teaching universities that include abortion procedures in their curriculum. That's about the most egregious form of "pressure" you can imagine.
 

terafied

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do your best to not debate this particular case please, I spotted this somewhere and followed it to the original source. Thought this might be the best place to put it.

Abortion Saved My Life « Esoterica

this is where I found it, Abortion needs to be taught in our medical schools : Pharyngula
I added the other link in case you might be interested in the blogs or the comments.

for those who just want a summary, basically this woman was having a placental abruption, 20 week old fetus was dying/dead and no doctors on call were trained in doing abortions I believe.
Actually there was a physician on call, but the attending didn't call her until it was nearly too late.
 

Aurora151989

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The House just voted on a bill to deny federal funding for any medical teaching universities that include abortion procedures in their curriculum. That's about the most egregious form of "pressure" you can imagine.
right, but that doesn't apply in this particular case.

now what's this about a bill? might I have a link please?

i have a sneaky suspicion digsbe didn't read the original post just the thread title
 
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Korimyr the Rat

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The real topic of the OP, if I understand correctly, is that medical schools are being pressured not to teach doctors how to perform abortions in the first place, so a woman experiencing such an immediate crisis may die simply because no physician can be found who knows how to do the procedure.
It is not a difficult procedure. A third-rate veterinarian can do it. Of course, a third-rate veterinarian would have been trained to, but my point is that any trained OB-GYN shouldn't have a problem with it even if it's unfamiliar.

I reread the article and saw that the doctor on-call didn't do abortions, I took that as wasn't trained in how to do them.
If it's anything else, the doctor should be fired and beaten within an inch of his life. Refusal to perform elective abortions is one thing, but refusal to perform them where medically necessary is inexcusable.
 
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terafied

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I disagree with your statement that anyone can do this procedure. Strongly. You can't just evacuate the contents of a woman's uterus and hope that her fertility remains intact. It's not the same as an early-term procedure.
 

Aurora151989

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thanks for the link, i strongly object to that bill, one abortion procedure, a d and c is the standard of care i believe following a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) to make sure nothing was left behind.

I'd like to know how one can voice one's objections to a bill that's been passed though, or if there's any use objecting
 

terafied

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thanks for the link, i strongly object to that bill, one abortion procedure, a d and c is the standard of care i believe following a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) to make sure nothing was left behind.

I'd like to know how one can voice one's objections to a bill that's been passed though, or if there's any use objecting
Oh you BET there is! First, this was a House bill. It's pretty much DOA in the Senate. They are a more reasonable group.

But the House nuts need to be held accountable for their votes. You can use this bill as a point of discussion in any forum you post in, AND you can contact your Senators to express your strong opposition.
 

LefthandedGOPer

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I am pro life for the Childs sake, but I frankly support women who have to abort due to medical complications.
I feel for them. It must be hard.
Anywho, I am PRO LIFE for the life of the mother, first and foremost.

I don't believe in abortion, but I say keep it legal

Have women "make a choice" and if they don't regret it, great. If they do, I'm sorry but I am happy I didn't pay for your choice.
 

1Perry

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I don't believe the entre scenario ever happened. Carol Costello never had a PBA and Jane Doe wasn't raped. IMO it's a waste of time to discuss a made up scenario.
 
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