Can't have an abortion until you take a three-hour class on adoption [W:534]

[AngryOldGuy]

"we have a method of figuring out what is Constitutional in this country"
yes and I've watched that process over the last 40 years and what is coming in the near future ain't gonna be purdy

 

[TiredOfLife]

Three kinds of folks that you never ever benefit from interacting with:
Cops
Lawyers &
doctors

there sure as heck isn't any upside from a visit to an abortion clinic :mrgreen:

Oh but there is. It would just be great if there wasn't eh?

 

[TiredOfLife]

"we have a method of figuring out what is Constitutional in this country"
yes and I've watched that process over the last 40 years and what is coming in the near future ain't gonna be purdy

I thought you said you'd been watching? What was the last 40 years, tea time?

 

[AngryOldGuy]

That's tee time, on the back nine.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Well, I can read a plain English document, and here's some insight; yeah, abortion is permitted. So is banning it. The Constitution doesn't say anything, not word one, about abortion.

The Constitution certainly never declares abortion a right... unlike voting, unlike keeping and bearing arms, unlike speech unabridged by any law of Congress.

The Fifth Amendment says that nobody may be deprived of life without due process of law. Abortion clearly violates this. Otherwise, you're right—nothing else in the Constitution addresses abortion at all.

I find it interesting that our courts have become so corrupt that they were able to “find” a right to abortion that is not there, while also allowing rather blatant violations of rights which are explicitly enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

 

[TiredOfLife]

The Fifth Amendment says that nobody may be deprived of life without due process of law. Abortion clearly violates this. Otherwise, you're right—nothing else in the Constitution addresses abortion at all.

I find it interesting that our courts have become so corrupt that they were able to “find” a right to abortion that is not there, while also allowing rather blatant violations of rights which are explicitly enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

Welcome to problem of Personhood. Did you know, right here in America, we used to have people who weren't Persons? Interesting huh? And they had even been born.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

hah Jay I'm thinkin' you may be on too somethin' there
I never did see the Amendment that was added which made it [abortion] a right
or was it just another case of legislation from the bench Kinda like 'healthcare' ?

It's kinda like this kiddos:


You have the right to remain silent when questioned.
Anything you say or do may be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish.
If you decide to answer any questions now, without an attorney present, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney.
Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?


And the funny thing, to use the above Right to Remain Silent, you have to say so. That's Constitutional now. How about that eh?

No, not kinda like that at all.

The Miranda rights are an implementation of parts of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments; regarding once's right not to testify against himself, and to have the counsel of an attorney. They are soundly grounded in the Constitution, unlike abortion or government takeover of the health care business.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

I find it interesting that our courts have become so corrupt that they were able to “find” a right to abortion that is not there,

yes indeed Pandora's box has been opened and one only need look to history to see what lies in store for U.S.

 

[TiredOfLife]

No, not kinda like that at all.

The Miranda rights are an implementation of parts of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments; regarding once's right not to testify against himself, and to have the counsel of an attorney. They are soundly grounded in the Constitution, unlike abortion or government takeover of the health care business.

Privacy, including what you do with your body, is in there as well. Try not to go beyond the obvious, you'll lose.

 

[TiredOfLife]

yes indeed Pandora's box has been opened and one only need look to history to see what lies in store for U.S.

Death? Destruction? Oh wait, the guys who founded the place said that. I guess they read history huh? Did you think it would last forever?

 

[AngryOldGuy]

You must admit it did have a mighty good run eh?

 

[TiredOfLife]

You must admit it did have a mighty good run eh?

A lot longer than they expected. Well AOG, I'm off.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

c'yas next time TOL

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Privacy, including what you do with your body, is in there as well. Try not to go beyond the obvious, you'll lose.

Abortion is not about what anyone does with her own body; it's what she does (or has done) to her child's body.

Anyway, it is a rather absurd stretch to construe anything in the Constitution as supporting a “right” for a woman to kill her own child, or to contract that task out to a professional killer. Such a “right” certainly doesn't fall under any rational concept of “privacy”.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

it is a rather absurd stretch to construe anything in the Constitution as supporting a “right” for a woman to kill her own child.

no nuttier than the Court ruling that failure to participate in federally mandated healthcare is punishable by a tax (or was it a penalty or a fine?)

 

[minnie616]

The Fifth Amendment says that nobody may be deprived of life without due process of law. ....

In the Roe vs Wade decision the Supreme Court rejected the fetal right to life argument.

The Court did not accept arguments that the fetus be regarded as a person within the meaning of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which declares that no state shall "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" (§ 1). "There is no medical or scientific proof that life is present from conception," wrote the Court.

Roe v. Wade legal definition of Roe v. Wade. Roe v. Wade synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[MaggieD]

I don't get it. Most of my family is female. Lots of aunts, cousins and sisters. All highly intelligent. As is my wife. That is the norm in my life. So I can't help wondering - just who are all these stupid women you guys seem to think don't know about adoption?

It's not that people don't KNOW about adoption. It's like Dr. Chuckles says: people don't know the ins and outs. Consider you find out you're pregnant this morning. (Yeah, I know, medical miracle.) You have a relatively small window of time to make your decision. "I could choose to go to the clinic this morning and be done with it, or I could choose to give this baby up for adoption." Where do you start if you have some interest in adoption? Most women wouldn't have one clue where to begin.

Most women don't know it's almost impossible to adopt a baby in the United States . . . the waiting period is years and years. A class that points that out -- walks a person through that process -- offers guidance in that direction -- gives a woman an opportunity to seriously consider that option and the tools with which she can make that happen could be a wonderful gift. A gift to herself, to a baby and to a childless couple. There are worse things in life.

I have a huge frickin' problem with govt. mandating 'classes' on adoption. Like I said, everyone knows of the option, if a woman wants to do that, she can seek out the information. Women not interested in that option should not be forced to sit through 3 hours of bullcrap anti choice propaganda.

BTW, I don't give a flying fig what you or your ilk think of my attitude. My attitude is just fine, according to me, and that is all that matters.

Now, you can stop the insults as I have not thrown any at you.

Comparing a woman who chooses adoption to being a brood mare for the barren is offensive.

I don't know what you mean by "you and your ilk" since I'm prochoice. I find other prochoice people who don't understand that having an abortion is a serious decision that should be made with all the facts one can muster to be callous, defensive and heartless.

My belief comes from personal experience. My stepdaughter got pregnant at 18, abortion wasn't available to her in the US at that time. She lived at home...never told her mom she was pregnant until she went into labor. Social services at the hospital helped her place her baby with one of those barren families you denigrate. Flash forward twenty years and more. Mom and baby were re-united. She's an absolutely beautiful woman who looks just like her mother. Eerily so, actually. Lovely family; two beautiful children of her own. She and her birth mother have a wonderful relationship.

So, let's see -- biological waste in a bucket? Or this gal? Ask the biological mom and her daughter which one they'd prefer.

Prolife supporters need to stop being so defensive, in my opinion. Three hours. For a possible life and a lifetime. Somehow that's horrendous? I don't get it.

 

[minnie616]

Privacy, including what you do with your body, is in there as well. Try not to go beyond the obvious, you'll lose.

Exactly.
There are zones to privacy regarding a woman's reproductively and child rearing.

Supreme Court Decision:
Roe v. Wade was argued before the Supreme Court on December 13, 1971, but wasn't decided until January 22 1973. The Supreme Court, led by Chief Justice Warren Burger, decided 7-2 in favor of Roe. Just Harry Blackmun was chosen to write the majority opinion. The Court argued that the First, Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the US Constitution grant an individual a right to privacy against state laws and cited past cases ruling that marriage, contraception, and child rearing are activities covered in a "zone of privacy." Thus privacy was granted to a woman's decision to have an abortion.

Roe v Wade

 

[year2late]

Ohhhh, how about this one.

Make families considering adoption take a three hour class on adopting within this country and make sure they understand that includes more than the cute cuddly white babies. Make them take a class that points our the countless numbers of adoptable kids currently within they system.

3 hour class on adoption.

Holy Jesus. The answer is reliable safe available cheap birth control for men and women. That prevents unwanted pregnancies. The other just is another finger wagging attempt.

 

[nota bene]

Ohhhh, how about this one.

Make families considering adoption take a three hour class on adopting within this country and make sure they understand that includes more than the cute cuddly white babies. Make them take a class that points our the countless numbers of adoptable kids currently within they system.

3 hour class on adoption.

Holy Jesus. The answer is reliable safe available cheap birth control for men and women. That prevents unwanted pregnancies. The other just is another finger wagging attempt.

The problem isn't the lack of availability of contraceptive methods; the problem is that 46% of the women who seek abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute, don't use them or don't use them correctly.

 

[lolabird]

So you hate my state and want it to have more Strom Thurmond-esque hateful bigots promoting needless killing of the innocent?

No thanks; that awful wretch herself will be out of a job soon enough.

They are your words, so please own them.

 

[minnie616]

The problem isn't the lack of availability of contraceptive methods; the problem is that 46% of the women who seek abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute, don't use them or don't use them correctly.

Those are old stats as I have pointed out in the past when you bring that point up.

year2late is correct.
As better cheaper methods of birth control have become availible in the last several years the numbers of unwanted pregnancies and the numbers of abortions in the USA have fallen. They have fallen from a high of 1.3 million about 15 years ago to under 800,000 in 2009 ( the latest stats available ) according to the CDC.

 

[lolabird]

So you hate my state and want it to have more Strom Thurmond-esque hateful bigots promoting needless killing of the innocent?

No thanks; that awful wretch herself will be out of a job soon enough.

So why don't you advocate that men use contraceptives or have vasectomy. Accept part of the responsibility for women becoming pregnant.
Man up.

 

[minnie616]

No, your first response was to scream about rape victims. It's a sadly oft-used and ill-conceived rebuttal used by some in regard to any point of disagreement on abortion

.

Perhaps because it is one of the first things we think about when broad laws without exceptions are passed because we were raped and impregnanted or we or have a loved one who had been raped and imprenanted and we understand how we or our loved one would feel if we or our loved one had to take a 3 hour class about adoption before we or our loved one could get the abortion we or our loved one feels is so desperately needed as a part of our recovery from the rape experience.

 

[lolabird]

The problem isn't the lack of availability of contraceptive methods; the problem is that 46% of the women who seek abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute, don't use them or don't use them correctly.

What's the man's responsibility? Men should take a five day class on contraception.
Perhaps they should holster before they take a ride.