Can the President not fire the VP? (1 Viewer)

[Cordelier]

Nevertheless, they are elected. Running mates are selected to increase the appeal of the nominee at the top of the ticket. In the U.S., you're really voting for two people at the same time, even if it's one nominee that gets most of the attention. I don't say this to defend the practice. Personally, I think the presidential system we have is a dinosaur and would rather have a parliamentary system, but...they didn't ask me.

What about if they aren't elected, though? Do you figure a Vice President appointed under the 25th Amendment has the same protections as an elected Vice President?

 

[Perotista]

Here's an interesting hypothetical... Could Nixon have fired Ford? Could Ford have fired Rockefeller? In both cases, the Vice President was appointed under the 25th Amendment... so with an unelected VP, couldn't the President theoretically fire him the same as he could any other Cabinet official?

I think not. Under the 25th, the president nominates his candidate for VP which is either approved or disapproved via majority vote of vote of both chambers. The congress confirms him and is a sense the election as both Ford and Rockefeller became elected officials via the action of congress in accordance with the 25th amendment. Since congress confirmed or approved the VP, only congress can fire the VP and that would be done by impeachment. I used the words, “I think not,” as I’m not a constitutional lawyer, just reading the amendment in plain English which most of those who interpret the constitution do so in lawyerese which can mean something completely different or the opposite than plain English.

 

[Safiel]

A Vice President cannot be fired, whether he was elected or appointed.

A President can always drop him from the ticket at the next election, but the Vice President can only be removed by impeachment and conviction.

 

[butterfly]

Why is this a thing?

 

[zincwarrior]

Sure...and then Vance can spend his time sitting around at home because he won't have any work to do except to preside over the Senate.

Which is no different then now. He has very limited Constitutional duties.

 

[mrjurrs]

That's what it says in this article. "Trump can't fire JD Vance." Is this true? Wow if so.

Trump’s Elon Problem

Charlie Sykes: “Trump can flick Marco Rubio aside like dandruff; brush Mike Johnson off like an errant crumb; turn Pam Bondi into Nikki Haley by midnight tonight. His orbit is filled with botoxed disposables who

politicalwire.com

It is true. But he could have the DoJ investigate him for no reason to find a reason to fire him. That wasn't an option for any other President except for President Biden's end of term.

 

[Felis Leo]

That's what it says in this article. "Trump can't fire JD Vance." Is this true? Wow if so.

Trump’s Elon Problem

Charlie Sykes: “Trump can flick Marco Rubio aside like dandruff; brush Mike Johnson off like an errant crumb; turn Pam Bondi into Nikki Haley by midnight tonight. His orbit is filled with botoxed disposables who

politicalwire.com

If you watched or listened to the certification of the election before the joint session of Congress on Monday, you might have noticed that each individual state did not only state the number of electoral votes for Donald Trump, but they re-stated the same number for J.D. Vance separately. That is not by accident. These are two separate and distinct offices, and yes J.D. Vance is the *one* person within the executive branch that the President categorically has no authority to fire. He would have to be impeached by Congress to lose his station.

 

[Cordelier]

I think not. Under the 25th, the president nominates his candidate for VP which is either approved or disapproved via majority vote of vote of both chambers. The congress confirms him and is a sense the election as both Ford and Rockefeller became elected officials via the action of congress in accordance with the 25th amendment. Since congress confirmed or approved the VP, only congress can fire the VP and that would be done by impeachment. I used the words, “I think not,” as I’m not a constitutional lawyer, just reading the amendment in plain English which most of those who interpret the constitution do so in lawyerese which can mean something completely different or the opposite than plain English.

I tend to agree with you, given that the 20th Amendment fixes the end of the Vice President's term and that the office carries with it quasi-legislative functions. I think the operative case here would be Humphrey's Executor v. US, 295 US 602 (1935).

 

[WorldWatcher]

Sounds like a good deal to me. Getting paid over $200,000 to sit around all the time watching movies and playing video games. Not sure his sofa would be so happy though.

His sofa is likely to develop a head ache.

WW

 

[Jason Warfield]

What about if they aren't elected, though? Do you figure a Vice President appointed under the 25th Amendment has the same protections as an elected Vice President?

Yes.

 

[Cordelier]

Yes.

Then they obviously don't derive from the fact the Vice President is an elected official, do they?

 

[Jason Warfield]

According to the Constitution, the VP can only be removed from office by Congress: impeachment then Senate vote to remove from office.

It doesn’t matter if he was originally on the ticket or was appointed to replace a previous VP.

While limited in duties, those duties can. E important and impactful.

Interestingly, no term limits on VP as long they keep getting chosen for the ticket or appointed to the position.

 

[trouble13]

Trump can't fire Vance, but he can send him off to Fargo ND to supervise the Postmaster.

I heard Fargo was going to be the new winter headquarter for the FBI

 

[armycowboy]

Which President and Vice President have had the most conflictive relationship?

Probably Andrew Jackson and John Calhoun. Some of the pre 12th amendment relationships were contentious, but no other president literally threatened to kill their VP.

 

[Cordelier]

According to the Constitution, the VP can only be removed from office by Congress: impeachment then Senate vote to remove from office.

It doesn’t matter if he was originally on the ticket or was appointed to replace a previous VP.

While limited in duties, those duties can. E important and impactful.

Interestingly, no term limits on VP as long they keep getting chosen for the ticket or appointed to the position.

All due respect, Article II §4 states the following: "The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

The word "only" isn't in there.

 

[Jason Warfield]

Then they obviously don't derive from the fact the Vice President is an elected official, do they?

It doesn’t matter. He can be removed from office as per the Constitution.

However, he IS considered elected as he shares the ticket with the President. When you vote, the ballot lists both names as you are voting for both of them at the same time.

According to the 25th Amendment, a VP is nominated by the president and then Congress votes to approve the nomination. So, the VP is still elected.

When your

 

[Jason Warfield]

All due respect, Article II §4 states the following: "The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

The word "only" isn't in there.

Pretty much what I said minus the detail of why.

It’s still only by impeachment and then removal vote.

 

[Cordelier]

It doesn’t matter. He can be removed from office as per the Constitution.

However, he IS considered elected as he shares the ticket with the President. When you vote, the ballot lists both names as you are voting for both of them at the same time.

According to the 25th Amendment, a VP is nominated by the president and then Congress votes to approve the nomination. So, the VP is still elected.

When your

The only difference between appointing a Vice President under the 25th Amendment and appointing the Secretary of the Treasury is that the House also gets a say in his confirmation. Do you really think that is a game-changer here?

 

[Cordelier]

Pretty much what I said minus the detail of why.

It’s still only by impeachment and then removal vote.

No, it's not. The Secretary of the Treasury - as a Civil Officer of the United States - can be removed by impeachment, but that's not the only way he can be removed, is it?

 

[Cordelier]

Probably Andrew Jackson and John Calhoun. Some of the pre 12th amendment relationships were contentious, but no other president literally threatened to kill their VP.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall when those two got together. *L*

 

[Jagged]

That's what it says in this article. "Trump can't fire JD Vance." Is this true? Wow if so.

Trump’s Elon Problem

Charlie Sykes: “Trump can flick Marco Rubio aside like dandruff; brush Mike Johnson off like an errant crumb; turn Pam Bondi into Nikki Haley by midnight tonight. His orbit is filled with botoxed disposables who

politicalwire.com

No, though he can get him killed.

 

[Cordelier]

Probably Andrew Jackson and John Calhoun. Some of the pre 12th amendment relationships were contentious, but no other president literally threatened to kill their VP.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

 

[Cordelier]

No, though he can get him killed.

Ask Mike Pence about that.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Which President and Vice President have had the most conflictive relationship?

Trump/Pence, for the period of 6-20 Jan 2021.

Huh. Just noticed both Trump's Veeps are named **nce.

 

[Moon]

My favorite story about a VP…

Later, when he had succeeded President McKinley, Teddy was annoyed by the tinkling of the enormous “Jefferson chandelier” in his office, and ordered it removed. “Take it to the office of the Vice President,” he said. “He doesn’t have anything to do. It will keep him awake.”

THE VICE PRESIDENCY: A Bridgebuiider

(See Cover) Reminiscing last week about the job that took him to the White House. Harry Truman told a piece of personal history in homely barnyard simile: "I tried to argue with those fellows...

time.com