Can pro life defend their position

[jaeger19]

1. the numbers are what they are. To truly end abortion we have to get into the schools and turn the next generation against the idea of killing of unborn babies.
2. "Pregnancy has very real consequences. " ....... yes it does. Killing an innocent human life so a person can have less back pain shouldn't be acceptable
3. that's a huge problem for me

1. The numbers show an increase in abortion. And an increase in maternal and infant death.
Is that what you want?
It seems odd that you claim to be concerned about life . And when it’s shown that they law you support my be reducing life, your response is “ meh”.

2. Pregnancy isnt killing a person. You seem to forgot the consequences to the pregnant woman ..

3. Sure. But to me. The life of my patient means more than punishing others.

 

[stealthycat]

AI, really? So you need sn AI to explain your asserion of value because you cannot articulate or explain it yourself? Too funny! Especially since none of that actually explains or quantities the value of human life. It's just more empty assertions with appeals to emotion.

so you disagree with those things AI/Google said about value of life ??

 

[jaeger19]

its a living human life - of course its valuable

I can think of exceptionally few laws that do not protect innocent life. I can think of few religions that don't value human life. I can think of few people in general who don't value human life. Its literally part of humanity, valuing our lives and the lives of other

I can't believe that you don't value human life and I have to try and explain it to you ? Do you not value human life then?

Who said I don’t value human life? Not me.
But you are the one making judgements about the worth of human life so let’s stick to you shall we.?

So explain why a day old baby is valuable.
Explain its value

 

[stealthycat]

1. The numbers show an increase in abortion. And an increase in maternal and infant death.
Is that what you want?
It seems odd that you claim to be concerned about life . And when it’s shown that they law you support my be reducing life, your response is “ meh”.

I want 98% of abortions or more to end - but States control their own way now

2. Pregnancy isnt killing a person. You seem to forgot the consequences to the pregnant woman ..

please, talk down to someone else, you can't do it to me

3. Sure. But to me. The life of my patient means more than punishing others.

punishing or responsibility? I'm curious how you justify not allowing people to kill their 1 day old babies if those babies are just too much trouble to have around? Why not allow it ?

 

[stealthycat]

Who said I don’t value human life? Not me.
But you are the one making judgements about the worth of human life so let’s stick to you shall we.?

So explain why a day old baby is valuable.
Explain its value

you seem desperate for other people to define the value of human life for you

in fact, everyone here seems to know how valuable human life is (except Gordy) but nobody else wants to explain it - but they demand it of me ? hmmmmm aint that special

 

[Gordy327]

so you disagree with those things AI/Google said about value of life ??

It doesn't explain the value of life. Neither do you.

you seem desperate for other people to define the value of human life for you

You seem desperate to avoid defining the value of human life yourself, since you've consistently avoided doing so when asked to.

in fact, everyone here seems to know how valuable human life is (except Gordy) but nobody else wants to explain it - but they demand it of me ? hmmmmm aint that special

Since you "know" the value and make assertions of value, then you should be able to explain or quantify this value.

I want 98% of abortions or more to end - but States control their own way now

Most people want abortion rights. Why should you get your way? More states have expanded abortion rights too.

please, talk down to someone else, you can't do it to me

You also cannot seem to address points or challenges made.

punishing or responsibility? I'm curious how you justify not allowing people to kill their 1 day old babies if those babies are just too much trouble to have around? Why not allow it ?

Babies can be handed off and anyone is capable of taking care of babies. The same cannot be said of a fetus.

 

[stealthycat]

It doesn't explain the value of life. Neither do you.

you haven't either

You seem desperate to avoid defining the value of human life yourself, since you've consistently avoided doing so when asked to.

you seem desperate that I do - why don't you share with everyone what you believe ?

Since you "know" the value and make assertions of value, then you should be able to explain or quantify this value.

so you don't know value? why ?

Most people want abortion rights. Why should you get your way? More states have expanded abortion rights too.
You also cannot seem to address points or challenges made.
Babies can be handed off and anyone is capable of taking care of babies. The same cannot be said of a fetus.

we'll see where the USA is in 10-20 years. Roe V Wade is dead. Abortion is more unpopular than its been in 50 years. You have to admit, pro-life has won bigly in the past 4 years ...

 

[Gordy327]

you haven't either

Why would I? I made no assertions of value. The burden of proof is not on me. But you made assertions of value. So the onus is on you to prove or explain value.

you seem desperate that I do - why don't you share with everyone what you believe ?

What does belief have to do with anything? Belief is irrelevant. Or are you saying your assertion of value is nothing more than your own belief?

so you don't know value? why ?

You haven't explained or quantified this value, despite your repeated assertions of value.

we'll see where the USA is in 10-20 years. Roe V Wade is dead. Abortion is more unpopular than its been in 50 years. You have to admit, pro-life has won bigly in the past 4 years ...

Is that why more state expanded abortion rights, including typically more conservative states? You have an odd idea of "winning."

 

[quip]

so you disagree with those things AI/Google said about value of life ??

It didn't reference in-utero life in relation to the mother's.

 

[stealthycat]

Why would I? I made no assertions of value. The burden of proof is not on me. But you made assertions of value. So the onus is on you to prove or explain value.
What does belief have to do with anything? Belief is irrelevant. Or are you saying your assertion of value is nothing more than your own belief?
You haven't explained or quantified this value, despite your repeated assertions of value.
Is that why more state expanded abortion rights, including typically more conservative states? You have an odd idea of "winning."

its simple really

if you think someone born has value, explain why

now, use that explanation and apply it to the very same person 10 seconds before they're born - they are literally the same living person 10 seconds before birth as they are 10 seconds afterwards

you cannot believe otherwise can you ?

 

[stealthycat]

It didn't reference in-utero life in relation to the mother's.

that wasn't the question

 

[quip]

that wasn't the question

That's the issue you're dealing with in an abortion scenario. So, deal with it.

 

[Gordy327]

its simple really

if you think someone born has value, explain why

now, use that explanation and apply it to the very same person 10 seconds before they're born - they are literally the same living person 10 seconds before birth as they are 10 seconds afterwards

you cannot believe otherwise can you ?

You first! You're the one making claims of value, not me. So explain or quantify this value! But I suspect you will cowardly dodge that challenge yet again, as you have continuously done.

 

[stealthycat]

That's the issue you're dealing with in an abortion scenario. So, deal with it.

ask Gordy value of life - see if he answers you

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he will not

I gave answers that aren't my opinion but rather AI google based .... and its not an answer that's liked. Deal with it - it was demanded that I show something on value of human life

I did

 

[stealthycat]

You first! You're the one making claims of value, not me. So explain or quantify this value! But I suspect you will cowardly dodge that challenge yet again, as you have continuously done.

I did - you just don't like it because what it does is show that people who don't value human life are not common




AI Overview


Yes, human life is generally considered valuable. Most societies have laws and moral codes that protect human life, and people often go to great lengths to preserve their own lives and the lives of others.
Some say that human life is of unqualified value, and that it cannot be weighed against any other value. Others say that the value of human life is infinite, and that any part of life is of the same worth as any other.

AI Overview

The statement "human life has no value" is generally considered to be a harmful and ethically problematic viewpoint, as most societies and philosophies recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every human life; it is important to remember that every individual has value, regardless of their circumstances.

 

[Gordy327]

I did - you just don't like it because what it does is show that people who don't value human life are not common

No, you didn't explain anything. All you offered are more assertions of value. Just because one "considers" life valuable does not explain or quantify this value. All it amounts to is saying "life is valuable because I say so," which means nothing.

 

[quip]

ask Gordy value of life - see if he answers you

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he will not

I gave answers that aren't my opinion but rather AI google based .... and its not an answer that's liked. Deal with it - it was demanded that I show something on value of human life

I did

Gordy seems to grasp the physical dissimilitude between in-utero life, neonatal life and the woman involved's life... including the situational values of ALL involved. Something you don't seem to grasp evident by your shopworn generalization over life values.

So, get to it and give us a breakdown of each's valuation as you see it.

 

[Gordy327]

ask Gordy value of life - see if he answers you

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he will not

Gordy never mentioned value nor uses it as part of his arguments. You on the other hand never answered the question, what is the value of human life?

I gave answers that aren't my opinion but rather AI google based .... and its not an answer that's liked. Deal with it - it was demanded that I show something on value of human life

I did

All you did was regurgitate the same old mantra about life having value. You didn't explain or quantify this value.

 

[Gordy327]

Gordy seems to grasp the physical dissimilitude between in-utero life, neonatal life and the woman involved's life... including the situational values of ALL involved. Something you don't seem to grasp evident by your shopworn generalization over life values.

So, get to it and give us a breakdown of each's valuation as you see it.

He also seems to think Gordy made a value assertion, but can never cite where that is the case. Not surprising since no assertion was ever made. But he can't seem to back up his own assertions of value by objectively explaining or quantifying it. It's just more repetitive assertions coupled with emotionalism, but no explanations.

 

[stealthycat]

No, you didn't explain anything. All you offered are more assertions of value. Just because one "considers" life valuable does not explain or quantify this value. All it amounts to is saying "life is valuable because I say so," which means nothing.

and there we get to the core of all of this - you don't value human life

why not just say it and own it vs dancing around it ?

 

[stealthycat]

Gordy seems to grasp the physical dissimilitude between in-utero life, neonatal life and the woman involved's life... including the situational values of ALL involved. Something you don't seem to grasp evident by your shopworn generalization over life values.

So, get to it and give us a breakdown of each's valuation as you see it.

no, I'll wait for you and Gordy and others to explain first

 

[stealthycat]

He also seems to think Gordy made a value assertion, but can never cite where that is the case. Not surprising since no assertion was ever made. But he can't seem to back up his own assertions of value by objectively explaining or quantifying it. It's just more repetitive assertions coupled with emotionalism, but no explanations.

oh no, Gordy never has explained why unborn life has no value ... or why born life has value

I doubt you'll ever see Gordy do that either - its MUCH easier to demand others do it rather than show us what belief/views/facts Gordy hold

watch and see

 

[quip]

no, I'll wait for you and Gordy and others to explain first

I'm getting the distinct impression you're stalling for time. Life's perceived value is your anti-choice shtick.
Quit deflecting.

 

[MAGAnificent]

A competent medical team would be made up of Texans planning to move out of Texas because it's not a decent place to practice medicine or medical skills. They would already have quit their jobs, so the hospital could have had these women airlifted to neighboring states because they couldn't receive any treatment for their ailments.

Thank you for your opinion on what you think the medical team should have done or shold do, however the point still is that Texas abortion laws did not kill the woman.

 

[stealthycat]

I'm getting the distinct impression you're stalling for time. Life's perceived value is your anti-choice shtick.
Quit deflecting.

I'm not stalling for anything - ya'll are so emotional about value of life go ahead, explain why a 1 minute old born baby is so so much more valuable than a 1 minute before birth baby ?

and make no mistake, Gordy is 100% in for abortion at anytime before birth

I don't think you can logically tell me a 1 minute old born baby is more valuable than it was 1 minute before birth - but I'd like to see you try (Gordy, Luce and others too)