Oftencold
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2008
- Messages
- 5,044
- Reaction score
- 2,202
- Location
- A small village in Alaska
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
Well, the Stimulus package sure helped there!
By Alana Semuels
September 19, 2009
From the LA Times
California's jobless rate set a fresh postwar high in August, rising to 12.2% from 11.9% in July and putting more pressure on the state's tattered unemployment insurance fund.ARTICLE: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August -- latimes.com
Though the state may be in the early stages of an economic rebound, the latest figures underscore what many economists fear: There is no obvious engine of job growth to put California's more than 2.2 million unemployed residents back to work quickly.
It's the liberal mentality out there. Here's a fine example of a blue state.Well, the Stimulus package sure helped there!
I bet it would be much lower if they kicked out all those illegal aliens in California.
Do explain, i am interested in this sort of thing:2razz:
Fewer people to compete with for the existing jobs. It's ain't rocket science.
Well, before you go that far you have to consider something. What causes firms to demand foreign, more specifically illegal foreign labor?
They get cheap labor that doesn't ask for raises, nor bennies and illegal aliens don't sue for getting hurt on the job.
Interesting! So it is not really the presence of illegal aliens, but is instead the existence of policies that shift specific aspects of demand for labor.
They are breaking the law, if those people were citizens they couldn't pay them so low. Pretty simple.Well, before you go that far you have to consider something. What causes firms to demand foreign, more specifically illegal foreign labor?
Interesting! So it is not really the presence of illegal aliens, but is instead the existence of policies that shift specific aspects of demand for labor.
There are no policies. It is illegal to hire illegal immigrants, period.
No doubt about it. Regardless, the practice does exist, and for a reason no less. Therefore, it might serve us better to look at the cause, instead of the symptom.
I saw a follow-up report about the firms where the government did the raids to find and deport illegal alien employees.
They found that all those jobs had been replaced by legal citizens and their was wage increases (8% if I recall correctly).
Do you care to provide a link so that we can further analyze, based on the specific industry, number of workers found to be illegal, and the wage paid to both the illegal workers and the new legal workers (of which would need to be 8% more)?
Or at the very least, give a name to this source.
She said wages did not plummet in recent decades because of immigrants undercutting Americans, but because employers took advantage of the immigrant population fearful of seeking help from authorities.
"If you've got a segment of the workforce that's afraid to speak out against violations of their labor rights, then that drags down wages and working conditions for all workers," Singley said.
Well, the Stimulus package sure helped there!
Fewer people to compete with for the existing jobs. It's ain't rocket science.
Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?
Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals?
That comment shows a pretty limited understanding of the stimulus package, unemployment causes and effects, the California economy, economics...
Basically all the important information in the article, you don't comprehend.:2wave:
Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?
Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals?
Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance
You left out this part:
Thus, raids create jobs, but these jobs come at a price. Although employers should be paying these costs anyway, it doesn't change the fact that the increased expenses may be devastating for many companies. In the past, illegal immigrants would have returned to factory positions following an immigration raid, but a difficult labor market has changed this dynamic, with legal workers backfilling those who were not. Production costs go up, but immigration enforcement nonetheless is acting as a small stimulus program.
The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.
Furthermore, the industries aren't named so it's hard to consider if they are engines of growth. While I will give you that more Americans are hired then they were before, that does not deal with the net effect upon total jobs when you incorporate the larger picture. Imagine this. If steel workers were paid 10% and that 10% went into price, do you think that steel purchases were hire more people or less now that their raw materials cost more?
IMO, it's going to be impossible to determine the net affect without knowing the specific industry. In food processing though, I'd wager it's relatively minor effect on the total job market due to obscene subsidiaries to the agricultural industry. Having to pay $7.75 from $4 when the government is giving you billions really isn't that painful.
In the long term though, food processing is not a engine of growth.
Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance
You left out this part:
The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.
....
.
Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?
.
I support minimum wage.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?