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Bush Needs Stem Cells to Cure HIS Alzheimers

Squawker

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"I never said most of the things you said, I said."
-Squawker
 

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Was reading the news when I happened upon this. Research is going on all over the world every day.

A little lab in St. Louis is at the forefront of the national effort to use stem cells from newborns' umbilical cord blood to treat deadly diseases.
-snip-
Stem cells from umbilical cord blood can be used as an alternative to bone marrow to treat diseases such as acute leukemia, lymphoma and aplastic anemia. The therapy provides hope for thousands of patients who have no relative or suitable volunteer to provide matched bone marrow.
-snip-
“My most fervent hope," said Bartle, R-Lee's Summit, "is that the momentum that is behind adult stem cell research will basically leave embryonic stem cell research in the rear-view mirror."
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26 X World Champs

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Squawker said:
Was reading the news when I happened upon this. Research is going on all over the world every day.
You know being stubborn does not make you right! If you would take a moment and reread what the NIH & Harvard have to say about embryonic stem cell research in my post from this weekend?

You smugly post this stuff suggesting that there's no need for government involvement or to use embryonic stem cells. Remember what I said about being stubborn? It does not make you right. As a matter of fact you're dead wrong.

To be against what will be the greatest discoveries in the history of medicine is beyond comprehension. To not want as much research as possible is amazing too. To not even understand what the bill we're debating says is sad.

Here's a question for you? Let's say that you develop Parkinson's disease and the cure is to you a therapy derived from embryonic stem cells. Are you going to turn away the treatment?
 

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You know being stubborn does not make you right! If you would take a moment and reread what the NIH & Harvard have to say about embryonic stem cell research in my post from this weekend?

You smugly post this stuff suggesting that there's no need for government involvement or to use embryonic stem cells. Remember what I said about being stubborn? It does not make you right. As a matter of fact you're dead wrong.
There isn’t anything wrong with protecting human life Champ. I read what all the reports for and against said. I didn’t post the article to change your mind Champ. You are far too “stubborn” for me to convince. There are people who read this that may not have their mind made up. Let’s get all the information on the table and give it a good airing. Isn’t that what debating is all about?
 

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This issue really isn't my forte, but I have noticed one really interesting irony about it. A lot of the same folks who support stem cell research (always using the bottom dragging emotional appeal, "what if you got parkinson's - I bet you'd change your mind then) are the same people who are vigorously against animal research for developing the same life saving treatments. Can anyone explain this to me?
 

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walrus said:
This issue really isn't my forte, but I have noticed one really interesting irony about it. A lot of the same folks who support stem cell research (always using the bottom dragging emotional appeal, "what if you got parkinson's - I bet you'd change your mind then) are the same people who are vigorously against animal research for developing the same life saving treatments. Can anyone explain this to me?
I'm not against animal testing. I'm not thrilled about it, but I do realize the we can develop life-saving treatments via animal testing.
 

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walrus said:
This issue really isn't my forte, but I have noticed one really interesting irony about it. A lot of the same folks who support stem cell research (always using the bottom dragging emotional appeal, "what if you got parkinson's - I bet you'd change your mind then) are the same people who are vigorously against animal research for developing the same life saving treatments. Can anyone explain this to me?

I'll try, since I happen to be one of those people ;)
Stem cells are just that cells: they are not yet a human being. The animals used in animal research on the other hand are fully developed living creatures. Would you allow "human beings" research? I doubt it. We as human beings tend to consider the life of an animal not as important as ours, but bottom line is it is a life and they do feel pain or fear as we do.

Most of the animal testing that is done anyway is unnecessary, because (here's a shocker) animals are different than humans.

If anyone is interested to read more, there is a book online called "ANIMAL RESEARCH T A K E S LIVES - Humans and Animals BOTH Suffer". Here is the link:
http://www.health.org.nz/contents.html
 
P

pwrslyd

I personally do not think that it is the government's job to fund scientific research. That is the job of private donors.

I have to applaud President Bush for vetoing this bill. It has no place in our government for my aforementioned reason.
 

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I do believe that your point could be much better stated, believed and discussed without your polarization of the issue based upon your obvious dislike of the President.

I never met John Kerry, but I was in Vietnam for five and half years. During that time, I did a considerable amount of work in the Delta. I was always a civilian, but spent many hours riding the "boats" in the brown water Navy where I was compared to John Kerry by people that had contact with both of us.

I was born in New England, I'm a bit older, I lived in a rather upscale neighborhood and my parents both had held elected public office. We both graduated from boarding schools. I was teased a bit by it all, but the reality was always, "Why is he so different than you?" Knowing what I had heard about him made me always question why he was even elected to any office.
Even as of today, his military records have not been authorized for release.

My whole pint is that I don't hate the man, but I disrespect him quite a bit. Why don't you post about the President in a manner that shows your dislike toward his stand and the reasons why, rather than noting that a serious
mental condition is his reason?

Face it, from a scientific standpoint, there has been no experiment or development of stem cells that has proved that there is anything more than a "possibility" that the research will bare fruit.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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And could possibly cure many many many diseases.

That's a possiblitity we should investigate.

A large majority of funding for all scientific research comes from the governement. This is an important field that should be throroughly investigated and I do think the government should be aiding along in this process.
 

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johnsdad said:
Face it, from a scientific standpoint, there has been no experiment or development of stem cells that has proved that there is anything more than a "possibility" that the research will bare fruit.
That's not true.

Eight different mice with spinal cord injuries have regained the use of their tails, hind legs, and bodily waste functions after embryonic stem cell treatment.

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,50951,00.html

Adult stem cells have been used to repair a girl's skull.

http://www.whollyhis.net/archives/2004/12/17/stem-cell-success
 
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pwrslyd said:
I personally do not think that it is the government's job to fund scientific research. That is the job of private donors.

I have to applaud President Bush for vetoing this bill. It has no place in our government for my aforementioned reason.
Really? So you think we should close down the NIH, CDC, and every government sponsored scientific study? That would also mean good-bye to NASA, goodbye to government funded flu shots, etc.

Did you realize what you were suggesting when you wrote that the government should not fund scientific research? With all due respect, that would be beyond insane...it would be DEADLY....
 

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johnsdad said:
Face it, from a scientific standpoint, there has been no experiment or development of stem cells that has proved that there is anything more than a "possibility" that the research will bare fruit.
Can you imagine what the Earth would be like today if your philosophy of medical experimentation were adapted? Do you believe that cures are found instantly without many, many failures first? Did you ever consider that failures also lead to cures.

With all due respect, it is ridiculous to believe that because the actual breakthrough has not been completed yet that we should stop. That is simply weak, sorry...
 

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You know, everyone from the right (heheh....of course everyone j/k) talks about the morality of using stem cells and how they kill "life" but no one ever talks about the lack morality of not exploring this science to its fullest potential and the countless number of people that suffer from Parkinson's, cancer, heart disease, liver disease, any other number of medical issues that have the potential to be just merely entries in a history book after the exploration into this type of medince. To not use Cells that are just going to be thrown out (from the above post) and that have NO chance of being life on there own, is just spitting in the eyes of everyone that is/has been aflicted with any medical condition that could be cured with this science.

Merely toying with the lives of countless numbers in this country and in other countries with just some of the above diseases is JUST SICK----neocons, cons, and the right and left that feel we shouldnt' persue this to its fullest extent seriously needs to have the values, agenda, and themselves re-examined.
 

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Fu_chick said:
If Bush continues to block
Ahhh any company or person is free to research this all they want. All this has to do with is using taxpayer money to fund it. YOU are free to invest every penny you have into it. Why do you frame it as if Bush, who is respecting the taxpayer dollar, is trying to "block" it. Recall Bush was the first President, it wasn't Clinton, it wasn't GWHBush, it wasn't Reagan, it wasn't Carter, who funded stem cell research and that reserach as opposed to embryonic has paid off.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Can you imagine what the Earth would be like today if your philosophy of medical experimentation were adapted? Do you believe that cures are found instantly without many, many failures first? Did you ever consider that failures also lead to cures.

With all due respect, it is ridiculous to believe that because the actual breakthrough has not been completed yet that we should stop. That is simply weak, sorry...
Why do you believe they are only possible if the government takes money from taxpayers to pay for it? How much have you invested in the companies doing this research?
 

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BOSTON - Gov. Mitt Romney vetoed a bill Friday that would expand embryonic stem cell research in Massachusetts, but the measure has had more than enough support in the Legislature to override the governor's veto.
Fulfilling his long-stated promise, Romney said at a news conference that he was unable to sign the bill because it includes a provision allowing therapeutic cloning, in which scientists create a cloned embryo to harvest stem cells in hopes of using them to treat and cure disease. Critics have said the practice amounts to creating human life only to destroy it.
In a letter to lawmakers, the Republican governor said he could not "in good conscience allow this bill to become law."
Lawmakers in both the House and Senate passed the bill with veto-proof margins. They are expected to override Romney's veto next week.
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Who was it that was arguing this would not lead to cloning?
 

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includes a provision allowing therapeutic cloning, in which scientists create a cloned embryo to harvest stem cells in hopes of using them to treat and cure disease.


Squawker said:
Source

Who was it that was arguing this would not lead to cloning?
Why must you twist the truth to serve your point of view? How come? Is the truth unacceptable to you? What's the deal here?

What do I mean? Cloning stem cells "in the hopes of using them to treat and cure diseases" is a major leap from cloning human beings. You know this, but you insist on making up this crap? WHY?

How moronic is it to be against finding cures for diseases using modern medicine as the methodology? I'll tell you how moronic it is....MONUMENTALLY moronic. God forbid that your child develops Parkinson's Disease (not to mention yourself) and because of the road blocks that you and your ilk are attempting to perpetrate the cure is only found the day after they die?

I will make this as clear as possible....SHAME ON ANYONE WHO USES "KILLING A BABY" AS THEIR SICK RATIONAL TO PREVENT SCIENCE FROM CURING THE WORLD OF OUR MOST DEADLY AND DIABOLICAL DISEASE!
 
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26 X World Champs said:
[/b]I will make this as clear as possible....SHAME ON ANYONE WHO USES "KILLING A BABY" AS THEIR SICK RATIONAL TO PREVENT SCIENCE FROM CURING THE WORLD OF OUR MOST DEADLY AND DIABOLICAL DISEASE!

Shame on anyone who would use the advancement of science & possible curing of disease as their sick rationale to kill a baby.
 

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Why must you twist the truth to serve your point of view? How come? Is the truth unacceptable to you? What's the deal here?

What do I mean? Cloning stem cells "in the hopes of using them to treat and cure diseases" is a major leap from cloning human beings. You know this, but you insist on making up this crap? WHY?
The article I sourced is very clear Champ, it said "Cloned Embryo". I realize you do not consider it to be a human being, but I do. I also believe this would lead to "farming body parts". People who do not see embryos as humans would have no objection to growing an embryo for a new heart.
 

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Shame on anyone who would use the advancement of science & possible curing of disease as their sick rationale to kill a baby.
May I ask you a question? If science is allowed to use an embryo that is left over from a couple's In Vitro process INSTEAD of having them THROWN AWAY, why would you be against that? One step further? Take those left overs and clone them to make more left overs purely for medical advancement. If you think that's murder than you are DEAD wrong....IMHO.

Are you also against In Vitro Fertilization? That's "ungodly" too....

How about one more honest answer? If you were dying from a disease and the cure had been discovered thru stem cell research you would have to decline the treatment, right? You would die instead? Is that correct? If it is, are you going to create a living will that clearly states that no matter your condition you will not accept embryonic stem cell created cures? Is that what you plan on doing?
 

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Squawker said:
The article I sourced is very clear Champ, it said "Cloned Embryo". I realize you do not consider it to be a human being, but I do. I also believe this would lead to "farming body parts". People who do not see embryos as humans would have no objection to growing an embryo for a new heart.
Twisting words doesn't make you right. You know damn well that there is no intention to clone anything but stem cells, but, as you've done before, you're trying to use "scare tactics" to rabble rouse people into thinking that science has gone mad, has no ethics, and left unchecked will develop a race of clones that will threaten the world as we know it......Christ is that ABSURD!

I need to ask you this too....

If you were dying from a disease and the cure had been discovered thru stem cell research you would have to decline the treatment, right? You would die instead? Is that correct? If it is, are you going to create a living will that clearly states that no matter your condition you will not accept embryonic stem cell created cures? Is that what you plan on doing?
 

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26 X World Champs said:
May I ask you a question? If science is allowed to use an embryo that is left over from a couple's In Vitro process INSTEAD of having them THROWN AWAY, why would you be against that? One step further? Take those left overs and clone them to make more left overs purely for medical advancement. If you think that's murder than you are DEAD wrong....IMHO.

Are you also against In Vitro Fertilization? That's "ungodly" too....

How about one more honest answer? If you were dying from a disease and the cure had been discovered thru stem cell research you would have to decline the treatment, right? You would die instead? Is that correct? If it is, are you going to create a living will that clearly states that no matter your condition you will not accept embryonic stem cell created cures? Is that what you plan on doing?
Actually, to be totally honest, I am not against embryonic stem cell research. Especially in the manner in which you speak of...(left over embryo from in vitro)...

I just found it interesting in your previous statement that you would carelessly put a baby's life at the bottom of your priorities of human existence.
 

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Twisting words doesn't make you right. You know damn well that there is no intention to clone anything but stem cells, but, as you've done before, you're trying to use "scare tactics" to rabble rouse people into thinking that science has gone mad, has no ethics, and left unchecked will develop a race of clones that will threaten the world as we know it......Christ is that ABSURD!
As usual, I never said the things you said I said. Why do you keep doing that Champ? There are 24 embryos still available for research and NIH will fund it. We will have a new administration in 2008 and a different decision may be made at that time. The States are funding some on their own, so I don't see why you are so angry about it.
 
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