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Bush Iraq Invasion Has Helped To Spread Terror To Jordan

Calm2Chaos said:
Timmy, What amazes me is that there were people killed here by suicide bombers. And yet you berate the US and not those that did the killing. How utterly expected, and completely pathetic. You keep giving the terrorist a free pass, im sure thats going to work out well......:doh

I am not giving the terrorists a free pass, but it certainly seems that you are giving Bush a free pass. It also seems that you cannot understand that some of the actions of the US in the past can also be equated to terrorism. I will leave you a quote from Noam Chomsky (not that I agree with him on everything, but this quote I do):

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. -Noam Chomsky
 
TimmyBoy said:
I am not giving the terrorists a free pass, but it certainly seems that you are giving Bush a free pass. It also seems that you cannot understand that some of the actions of the US in the past can also be equated to terrorism. I will leave you a quote from Noam Chomsky (not that I agree with him on everything, but this quote I do):

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. -Noam Chomsky

And I'll leave you with my interpretation of Noam Chomsky: "The U.S. is evil but Pol Pot was just misunderstood."


Don't quote that supporter of genocidal maniacs to me pal, Noam Chomsky is a lier, a terrorist/communist sympathiser, and a traitor!
 
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TimmyBoy said:
I am not giving the terrorists a free pass, but it certainly seems that you are giving Bush a free pass. It also seems that you cannot understand that some of the actions of the US in the past can also be equated to terrorism. I will leave you a quote from Noam Chomsky (not that I agree with him on everything, but this quote I do):

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. -Noam Chomsky

Brilliant, just why Chomsky can't possibly be taken serious. Do you honestly believe by not "participating in it" that it will stop? My God, you Chomsky sheep get more ridiculous with every post I read. The man has no answers, no solutions, only empty verbage, and wild eyed rhetoric, get a clue of your own for once, and stop riding this mans coat tails.:roll:
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
are you thinking that I didn't know what would happen if we invaded Iraq? On the contrary I knew for a fact that they would call arms to jihad and muslim terrorists from throughout the region would answer the call the same way they did in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, only difference now is they don't have U.S. support, my question to you is how better of a way to bring an unseen enemy into the line of fire?
Are you saying that the US is responsible for Iraq becoming a better training ground for terrorists than Afghanistan was?

I take you are implying that the recruiting and training boost we've given to violent anti-American Islamist groups is "a way to bring an unseen enemy into the line of fire."
It also seems that you're implying that giving violent anti-American Islamist groups a recruiting and training boost was the only way to approach the GWoT.
Have I correctly discerned what you're trying to imply?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Are you saying that the US is responsible for Iraq becoming a better training ground for terrorists than Afghanistan was?

I take you are implying that the recruiting and training boost we've given to violent anti-American Islamist groups is "a way to bring an unseen enemy into the line of fire."
It also seems that you're implying that giving violent anti-American Islamist groups a recruiting and training boost was the only way to approach the GWoT.
Have I correctly discerned what you're trying to imply?

no I'm saying that they were already terrorists and didn't need any prompting from the U.S. to become so, we just kicked the bee hive in Afghanistan, are you saying that 9-11, U.S.S. COle, Embassy bombings, Somolia, first WTC, bombing, occured because we were in Iraq? So these people have a device that can allow them to see the future?
 
TimmyBoy said:
I am not giving the terrorists a free pass, but it certainly seems that you are giving Bush a free pass. It also seems that you cannot understand that some of the actions of the US in the past can also be equated to terrorism. I will leave you a quote from Noam Chomsky (not that I agree with him on everything, but this quote I do):

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. -Noam Chomsky

You most definetly are giving them a free pass, just like you usually do. And your hammering the US. People died, who caused it? If you say anything other then the terrorist your a raving ass. Stop trying to shift the blame and the focus from the people doing the killing. There are no if and or buts about this? We did not blow anything up in Jordan. We didn't force or demand that a bomb be detonated there. Some fukn animals murdering pigs decided the best idea was to kill innocent people. Yet you blame a country who had absolutely nothing to do with the death of those people. That was caused by three groups of people with explosives. Thats were the buck stops....
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
no I'm saying that they were already terrorists ...
"They" who?

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
are you saying that 9-11, U.S.S. COle, Embassy bombings, Somolia, first WTC, bombing, occured because we were in Iraq? So these people have a device that can allow them to see the future?
Nope. Not at all.
 
Calm2Chaos said:
If you say anything other then the terrorist your a raving ass. Stop trying to shift the blame and the focus from the people doing the killing. There are no if and or buts about this?
That was caused by three groups of people with explosives. Thats were the buck stops....
Does this rule of blame function the same no matter who is involved?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Does this rule of blame function the same no matter who is involved?

This rule of blame goes for anyone that is detonating explosives with the express consent to kill as many innocent and civilian men woman and children as possible. Even for the terrorist sympathisers out there, you know who YOU are. I want the blame being placed on those that are constantly targeting the innocent. Day in and day out. Blame the people pulling the trigger because unless we have perfected mind control there is no buddy else that is to blame.
 
Calm2Chaos said:
This rule of blame goes for anyone that is detonating explosives with the express consent to kill as many innocent and civilian men woman and children as possible.
So if it's only implied consent, then there's a different rule?
What about non-innocents who are killed? Is anyone to blame for those consequences?

Calm2Chaos said:
Blame the people pulling the trigger because unless we have perfected mind control there is no buddy else that is to blame.
Is anyone who pulls a trigger to blame for what happens as a result of pulling that trigger?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
So if it's only implied consent, then there's a different rule?
What about non-innocents who are killed? Is anyone to blame for those consequences?

Define non innocents?


Simon W. Moon said:
Is anyone who pulls a trigger to blame for what happens as a result of pulling that trigger?

Every action has a reaction. So yes anyone who pulls a triger is responsible for the result of pulling that trigger.
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Define non innocents?
Someone who fails to meet your criteria for 'innocent' as used in your phrase "to kill as many innocent and civilian men woman and children."

Calm2Chaos said:
Every action has a reaction. So yes anyone who pulls a triger is responsible for the result of pulling that trigger.
Responsibility is often a somewhat different concept than blame.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Someone who fails to meet your criteria for 'innocent' as used in your phrase "to kill as many innocent and civilian men woman and children."

Responsibility is often a somewhat different concept than blame.

Not in this instance then. If you pull the trigger you are to "Blame" for the immediate results of your actions. I don't see a lot of distinction between the two really
 
Calm2Chaos said:
You most definetly are giving them a free pass, just like you usually do. And your hammering the US. People died, who caused it? If you say anything other then the terrorist your a raving ass. Stop trying to shift the blame and the focus from the people doing the killing. There are no if and or buts about this? We did not blow anything up in Jordan. We didn't force or demand that a bomb be detonated there. Some fukn animals murdering pigs decided the best idea was to kill innocent people. Yet you blame a country who had absolutely nothing to do with the death of those people. That was caused by three groups of people with explosives. Thats were the buck stops....

But the US government has done some killing of innocent people. It seems the only person who is trying to shift blame is you. And you give it your "free pass." I guess as long as it's the government doing the killing of innocent people, or committing terrorist acts, it is OK in your book. But if somebody follows the same example of the government, all the sudden, it's not OK to you. Your logic doesn't make any sense.
 
You have a very distorted morality when it comes to dealing with terrorism. It seems you have this double standard where it is OK for the US government to engage in terrorism but it's not OK for anybody else. When the US is "fighting terror" their can be no double standard. We must hold ourselves to the same standard we hold to everybody else. Surely, you would agree with that, wouldn't you Calm2Chaos?
 
TimmyBoy said:
But the US government has done some killing of innocent people. It seems the only person who is trying to shift blame is you. And you give it your "free pass." I guess as long as it's the government doing the killing of innocent people, or committing terrorist acts, it is OK in your book. But if somebody follows the same example of the government, all the sudden, it's not OK to you. Your logic doesn't make any sense.

When has the uS govt intentionally targeted Civilians. That kind of warfare went out in Vietnam. If we were still allowed to carpet bomb we probably wouldn't be having the problems we are now
 
"Seems Iraqi sucide bombers have struck Jordan. Bush's invasion seems to have helped to spread terror rather than prevent it."- Timmy Boy


Wow! What a steaming load of spin!

The terrorists are now attacking MILITARY targets in THE MIDDLE EAST rather than CIVILIAN targets in NEW YORK CITY because Bush liberated Iraq. Al Queda in Iraq just got a huge backlash by indiscriminantly attacking Jordan. This attack is not an indication of terrorism spreading due to evil Bush daring to have some cahonies. It is a good thing that terrorists in Iraq are doing themselves in by attacking potential allies.

Being bold enough to introduce democracy to the Muslim world is going to lead to exponential ripple affects throughout the entire world. History will judge Bush favorably for it and those who bite their nails about every single ripple, significant or not, are srumming up fear for nothing.
 
"You have a very distorted morality when it comes to dealing with terrorism. It seems you have this double standard where it is OK for the US government to engage in terrorism but it's not OK for anybody else. When the US is "fighting terror" their can be no double standard. We must hold ourselves to the same standard we hold to everybody else."-Tommy Boy

Boy, you have a very distorted perception. In the ontomology buisness, we call that blind. America follows the rules and regulations laid out by the Geneva Convention on how to conduct war. Even though our enemy flies jets into our buildings, uses women to deliver bombs, attempts to set off dirty bombs on crowded subways, behead civilians or troops or a myriad of other heinous acts, we do not stoop to their level.

If America does something that goes againist what the world agreed upon in Geneva, then those responsible are punished. Case in point:what happened at the prison camps. Those accused were found guilty by a military court and are now breaking rocks into smaller rocks in Kansas. I was in the Army in Kansas, its not a happy place.

Unlike us, our enemy has no code of ethics and is willing to become even less human to try and furthur their agenda. Its not a matter of us being held to the same standards, we and the rest of the watching world can do that nicely, its holding our enemy to those standards by which we play by. And good luck there.
 
And yet, another stupid thread started by someone who no more knows about the Middle East than he knows about Islamic extremism and what this "war on terror" actually means.

Anyone who believes that our action in this war has spread terrorism or increased the extremists camp or sees a terrorist attack as a success....is utterly wrong.


Damn Timmy, you prove yourself with every new post.
 
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GySgt said:
Anyone who believes that our action in this war has spread terrorism or increased the extremists camp or sees a terrorist attack as a success....is utterly wrong.
Care to share your evidence that the US Intel Community is getting this one wrong?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Care to share your evidence that the US Intel Community is getting this one wrong?


Care to share your evidence that terrorism has spread because of this war?

Don't even say the bombing in Jordan. Terrorism was going on way before Bush was in office. We just didn't care about it because our noble president was getting laid in the oval office. He responded to terrorism by blowing up a medical facility in Iraq so people couldn't get their medicine. That was good for innocent people right? No one paid attention to the bombings before, now everytime there is a bombing it's Bush's fault. Did Bush cause the hurricanes too?

You defending the terrorist is appalling. The goal of the War of Terrorism is to make sure nothing like 9-11 happens again on US soil.
 
Paul said:
Care to share your evidence that terrorism has spread because of this war?

Don't even say the bombing in Jordan. Terrorism was going on way before Bush was in office. We just didn't care about it because our noble president was getting laid in the oval office. He responded to terrorism by blowing up a medical facility in Iraq so people couldn't get their medicine. That was good for innocent people right? No one paid attention to the bombings before, now everytime there is a bombing it's Bush's fault. Did Bush cause the hurricanes too?

You defending the terrorist is appalling. The goal of the War of Terrorism is to make sure nothing like 9-11 happens again on US soil.

Funny you should ask that. I was debating a liberal a few months back. He honestly believed that Bush caused the Tsunami. He explained that Bush ordered a secret nuclear bomb and had it detonated under the ocean floor so as to cause an undersea earthquake, which in turn caused tidal waves and the tsunami....all in an attempt to kill muslims. Gotta love the left. :mrgreen:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Care to share your evidence that the US Intel Community is getting this one wrong?

Evidence? Don't insult me. The Intel community deal in numbers, but they also deal in common sense. This is the type of evidence that numbers will not show. I am currently stationed at a higher HQ (underneath HQ Marine Corps) and I deal with this day in and day out. Moving on....

I don’t know what world some of you are watching on your television sets, but there has been no “success” for the terrorists. When people say that by killing terrorists we are only creating more terrorists, they are utterly wrong. This is sophomoric nonsense. There can be no doubt that Al-Queda recruitment has gone up, but we did not create these “soldiers for Allah.” They are products of a failing civilization and merely needed a nudge to get them in line. The truth of the matter is, that with every new “imagined” success that the terrorist have in so many different countries, they actually are creating enemies where before there were bystanders. The surest way to swell the ranks of terror is to follow the approach we did in the decade before 9/11 and do nothing of substance. Success breeds success. Everybody loves a winner. The cliches exist because they’re true. Al-Qaeda and related terrorist groups separated because they were viewed in the Muslim world as standing up to the West successfully and handing, the Great Satan America, embarrassing defeats with impunity. Some fanatics will flock to the standard of terror, no matter what we do. But it’s far easier for Islamic societies to purge themselves of terrorists if the terrorists are on the losing end of the global struggle than if they’re allowed to become triumphant heroes to every jobless, unstable teenager in the Middle East and beyond. Far worse than fighting such a war of attrition (more on this at your request) aggressively is to pretend you’re not in one while your enemy keeps on killing you. It is not a matter of whether attrition is good or bad. It’s necessary and it is world wide. It always has been.

9/11 was not a success for them. It was a dire mistake that awoke many and it was the most obvious example to date of how an “apocalyptic terrorist” always brings about his own demise. There are two different types of terrorist. The “Apocalyptic” always over reaches and destroys himself in the process.

The London bombings was to be an example of what allying with America will get you, but it backfired. Though there was a body count, Islamic leadership in the UK is now paying for their product and reeling from the consequences.

The Bali bombings (more on this at your request), while perceived by the world as a terrorist success, will probably mark the turning of the tide against terrorism in Indonesia. The terrorists in Indonesia, of which there are two distinct separate groups, bit off the hand that appeased them. Passivity in Indonesia has encouraged the extremists to believe that they could act with impunity. Now the terrorists have overreached, as their comrades did in New York and Washington. The crimes they committed on Bali were so ferocious that they cannot be denied or explained away by the Indonesian sponsership. More importantly, they were a severe embarrassment for the government and the country. Part of a desperate, world-wide attempt by Islamic terrorists to resume the offensive after the beating they've taken for the past year, these bombings brought global terrorism on a grand scale to Indonesia and it gave the agencies, that have been so far subdued by the appeasing government because they didn’t wish to antagonize them, a reason to act.

After the attacks in Jordan, angry Jordanians rallied outside one of three U.S.-based hotels attacked by suicide bombers, shouting, "Burn in hell, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Death to Al-Zarqawi!” The Jordanians are now a new public enemy to them.

After suffering devastating losses around the world, Islamic terror networks are attempting to return to the offensive, to prove they are still viable. Their targets, throughout the decade before 9/11, were on military installations and personnel. The targets they have recently struck illuminate their weakness and rage, not an intelligent global strategy. Far from striking major governmental or military targets, the terrorists have been reduced to sloven assassinations and, now, the calculated mass murder of young people. Once again, the terrorists have chosen targets that strengthen the hands of their enemies.

For the human devils who planned the slaughters and carry out the attacks, these truly are suicide attacks. Don’t give them their imagined victories.
 
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