Bush cracking down on Mexican illegal aliens

[Inuyasha]

I dont know why you give these imigrants so much crap. There comeing all this way to clean your toliets. All the poor guys are trying to do is get a better payed job. what happend to life liberty and pursuit of happiness?

Saffron - Bush is not going to do anything but give the situation lip service. Just like all the rest.

Dave-the problem of illegal aliens is world wide and it is out of control. It is causing a disruption in many societies around the glob. A practical solution is needed. The best so far is the suggested idea of a kind of Marshall plan for the nations where the illegals are comming from. The funds would be distributed and managed by the nations providing the funds. It's no silver bullet but it is a start. Legal immigration has not been stopped but because of the illegal traffic people who want to follow the letter of the law are not getting visas in the numbers that are available.

 

[Red_Dave]

Saffron - Bush is not going to do anything but give the situation lip service. Just like all the rest.

Dave-the problem of illegal aliens is world wide and it is out of control. It is causing a disruption in many societies around the glob. A practical solution is needed. The best so far is the suggested idea of a kind of Marshall plan for the nations where the illegals are comming from. The funds would be distributed and managed by the nations providing the funds. It's no silver bullet but it is a start. Legal immigration has not been stopped but because of the illegal traffic people who want to follow the letter of the law are not getting visas in the numbers that are available.

So , aside from a rise in rightist hysteria, what problems does imigration [legal or "illegal"] acutally cause

 

[Inuyasha]

So , aside from a rise in rightist hysteria, what problems does imigration [legal or "illegal"] acutally cause

It overloads both the health and employment systems such as in Spain and Portugal. Spain alone now has a million and a half illegal aliens in a small country with a population of 40 million, Portugal is also in bad straits. These countries' economics are not prepared for this onslaught of new people who don't speak the language have few skills and are often no equipped to live in an urban setting in a new country.

It also keeps law enforcement overly busy for a variety of reasons. One thing is evident. More crimes are committed by illegal aliens than by those who got to the host country legally. In part the reason is that just by comming into the country illegally one has committed a crime. Committing the second crime becomes that much easier and so on. Since the influx of Illegal aliens into Spain (both from Africa and Eastern Europe) the crime rate has shot up. The legal alien is much more clear on the letter of the law in the host country and worries more about losing his status than does the person who came across the border illegally.

You are in the UK and don't see the problem the way countries on the front line do (Spain, Italy, Portugal and France) . If an illegal from Africa or the ME as well gets to the UK he has had to go through 3 other countries first where many a caught. You are at the end of the chain. Not only that your borders are much harder to cross. No one is going to cross the channel or the North sea on a make-shift raft.

There are a lot more problems that illegal immigration creates but I can't sit here and write a book on it.

 

[saffron]

I dont know why you give these imigrants so much crap.

It is because they are here illegally. They are illegal. They are not supposed to be here!

There comeing all this way to clean your toliets.

.... and furthermore, they don't even clean their own toilets. I can clean my own toilet, thank you very much. I don't need a Mexican illegal alien to clean my toilet. OR to fix my car.

All the poor guys are trying to do is get a better payed job.

Then do it the legal way. They need to go through the legal channels and get their citizenships.

what happend to life liberty and pursuit of happiness?

:roll:

Its not like americas short of space i imagine states like texas could easly cope with serveral times the population they have now so why not let more people in?

It isn't an issue of space. It is an issue of their using up all of our resources such as the State, welfare, and the hospitals. And those are only a few. They produce babies that they cannot afford and what is worse is that they don't even understand this. They multiply like cockroaches.:doh

 

[saffron]

It overloads both the health and employment systems such as in Spain and Portugal.

These countries' economics are not prepared for this onslaught of new people who don't speak the language have few skills and are often no equipped to live in an urban setting in a new country.

Our own country isn't prepared for it.

It also keeps law enforcement overly busy for a variety of reasons. One thing is evident. More crimes are committed by illegal aliens than by those who got to the host country legally. In part the reason is that just by comming into the country illegally one has committed a crime.

Exactly. I try to live a legal life. I don't do anything illegal. So why are these illegal allowed to, when they aren't even citizens?

You are in the UK and don't see the problem the way countries on the front line do (Spain, Italy, Portugal and France) .

you're correct. People in London have no idea how bad it is. And they go on with their ultra-liberal attitude.

There are a lot more problems that illegal immigration creates but I can't sit here and write a book on it.

I agree, and it isn't worth it to try and explain. I live in the Los Angeles area. I regret to say that I stopped doing business with a few people who employ illegal aliens. And I have turned in a moving company to the Dept. of Naturalization and Immigration, who had illegals moving my belongings. This I don't regret doing though. And I don't have time to write about what they did that made me so mad. I'll just say that most of the Mexican illegal aliens are soooo blatantly illegal that they don't even realize they are walking around practically waving a red flag saying "I am a Mexican illegal alien, and I am looking for a sucker to marry me so I can get my citizenship the easy way, any takers!"

Saffron - Bush is not going to do anything but give the situation lip service. Just like all the rest.

Well then I'm happy that I didn't vote for him.

 

[Inuyasha]

My eldest son lives in Spain where he works in law enforcement. Because of his language skills he works in the division that is something like our INS and deals directly with the problem of illegal immigration. The problems he faces are not so different from those faced on our southern border and in the Florida area. The solutions, well that is another matter.

Those who come into the country illegally break the law and they know it. They are, if one wants, no difficult to apprehend unless a native is hiding them. Those natives are often the owners of businesses that want cheap labor, When they are caught employing illegals they are fined heavily. We need to do that more here.

A more difficult problem is those people who enter the country legally with a visa and then over-stay that visa. They are also committing a crime and the are also well aware of that crime. When they are apprehended they are arrested and deported to their country of origin. In either case they also have broken labor laws by often working without the proper papers. They are not fined or imprisoned (except between apprehension and deportation). Will it surprise you that a fair number of Americans fall into this category and are being deported back here? Nobody's perfect.

The Spanish government is not so PC as we are here so they use ethnic and racial profiling. Even so many slip under the radar.

Locking up aliens who commit a crime in the US is like sending them to a country club. They get three meals a day, a bed and they even get paid for working while in prison as well as being afforded an education. Our prison system is a system of rehabilitation. This is a double edge sword. It is an attempt to make a criminal into a productive citizen. But we deemphasis the penal aspect of prison so the prisoner is not punished as much as he is rehabilitate. it doesn't really work. That is why we have so many repeat offenders compared to Spain where the punishment aspect of prison is foremost.

Here is a little story that will underscore the point. This was during the Franco era and i was an interpreter for the Civil Guard. They had arrested an American who was apprehended with 20 kilos of cocaine and two hand guns. Under Franco the possession of a hand gun was reserved for police, special messengers and the military, for all others it was a felony that carried a maximun of three years in prison. The cocaine well you can imagine. The man was caught red handed and sentenced to 20 years for the drugs and 66 years for the hand guns. The American embassy tried vigorsly to have the man turned over to the US deported and serve his prison time in the US. This meant he would be on the street again in a maximun of 5 years time. The Spanish government said a flat no. He got out of prison in 2000 having served all his time in a Spanish prison and not in a luxury hotel like Oxford or Marion. Do you think he will be a repeat offender?

 

[Mikkel]

I've thought about it carefully, weighed all of the decisions and come up with a solution to end all of this.

We need to convince Americans to illegally emigrate to Mexico and see how they like it. We need this to be a two way street, otherwise this relationship just isn't going to work.

 

[Tohoya]

Wow...

Nice to know xenophobia is alive and well within America! Godamn, I thought we got this all worked out with the Know-Nothing party? Or is being anti-latino today's anti-catholic?

 

[Tohoya]

Yes they did and my ancestors contributed and helped build this country. My grandfather on my mother's side took 10 years before he could immigrate to American, this was because he did it legally. He fought in the American Army and then joined the U.S. Track and Field team and won medals in the Olympics. Sorry, but I've never seen a MExican illegal alien in the U.S. Olympics.:3oops:

This is a ridiculous comment. They are here illegally!. They are illegal immigrants.

I think that keeping all of the illegal Mexican immigrants out will solve a lot of the problems in California and a few other states. Their presence in California, I believe, is the cause of the money problems this state is obviously having. I think that they should be stopped, period.

Why does it matter so much if it is legal? Haven't you ever heard of civil disobedience? What is right is not always legal, and what is legal is not always right. Or, were the families who harbored gay, jewish, and Roma families during the Holocaust so evil because what they were doing was illegal! So far as I can see, the immigrants are not doing anything worse than a native-born American citizen, and I can hardly see how a native-born person is somehow superior to an immigrant, even if it is an illegal! one.

 

[Some_Guy]

We do not treat them like lesser beings. It's not like we have full citizenship in Mexico! We have to earn citizenship in other countries, and they do too.

Also, these illegals are not putting in the same as American citizens. They do not pay taxes. They are not bothering to apply for citizenship! They are purposefully breaking our laws. They might do it for an easy way out of the hard life, at the expense of our taxpayers. They might do it for welfare. I don't know their motives, but I know they are wrong. This is because they expect to be treated equally by the country whose laws they do not bother to follow! It's a 2-way street.

If it were ok to disobey laws, laws would appear and become malleable and weak. The executive branch would be destroyed, as it has no purpose anymore. This would usurp the checks and balances system, therefore nullifying the US government and creating absolute anarchy.

 

[Mikkel]

If it were ok to disobey laws, laws would appear and become malleable and weak. The executive branch would be destroyed, as it has no purpose anymore. This would usurp the checks and balances system, therefore nullifying the US government and creating absolute anarchy.

And when they made the national speed limit 55 in 1973 they should have pulled everyone over for going 70 on the interstates? And are those people who had a few drinks during prohibition bad people? Did Rosa Parks singlehandedly dismantle the political regime in the United States? I don't think so.

Look, there are laws. Some of them are good, and others are bad. People will regularly disobey the bad ones (ie file sharing today). It hasn't stopped this executive branch from doing a damn thing. Am I saying that disobeying laws is good? No. Am I saying that immigration laws are bad? Maybe. My main point here is that bad laws have been broken in the past and will continue to be broken in the future, and all without the collapse of government (as you imply). I applaud the drama, but it's really quite unfounded.

 

[Hornburger]

And when they made the national speed limit 55 in 1973 they should have pulled everyone over for going 70 on the interstates? And are those people who had a few drinks during prohibition bad people? Did Rosa Parks singlehandedly dismantle the political regime in the United States? I don't think so.

Look, there are laws. Some of them are good, and others are bad. People will regularly disobey the bad ones (ie file sharing today). It hasn't stopped this executive branch from doing a damn thing. Am I saying that disobeying laws is good? No. Am I saying that immigration laws are bad? Maybe. My main point here is that bad laws have been broken in the past and will continue to be broken in the future, and all without the collapse of government (as you imply). I applaud the drama, but it's really quite unfounded.

Why is it good to allow illegal aliens into the country?

 

[Mikkel]

Why is it good to allow illegal aliens into the country?

not once in my last post did I even imply that it was good to allow illegal aliens into the country. I was merely indicating to 'Some_guy' that illegal immigration won't be bringing down western civilization as we know it.

 

[Hornburger]

not once in my last post did I even imply that it was good to allow illegal aliens into the country. I was merely indicating to 'Some_guy' that illegal immigration won't be bringing down western civilization as we know it.

Oh right, sorry.

 

[Mikkel]

Oh right, sorry.

No prob.:2razz:

 

[Tohoya]

Also, these illegals are not putting in the same as American citizens. They do not pay taxes. They are not bothering to apply for citizenship! They are purposefully breaking our laws. They might do it for an easy way out of the hard life, at the expense of our taxpayers. They might do it for welfare. I don't know their motives, but I know they are wrong. This is because they expect to be treated equally by the country whose laws they do not bother to follow! It's a 2-way street.

This would be solved if we, y'know, allowed them citizenship. The quotas and such we have put on immigration haven't served in the least to stop people from coming in, just stopped them from paying tax money. They'd apply for American citizenship in a heartbeat if they could.

 

[The Real McCoy]

We need a wall. A wall that makes the Great Wall of China look like a picket fence. It should be wide enough to allow 2 lanes of M1 Abrams tank traffic to comfortably manuever and it should be 30 feet high. Every couple hundred yards or so there should be a tower, manned by snipers with M650 .50 cal rifles and 6G-30 6-shot grenade launchers. And before the beaners reach the wall, they should have to manuever their way through a mile wide mine-field. The only way the wetbacks should be allowed through is at secured checkpoints where they will be frisked and subject to a full body cavity search. :lol:

 

[Inuyasha]

We need a wall. A wall that makes the Great Wall of China look like a picket fence. It should be wide enough to allow 2 lanes of M1 Abrams tank traffic to comfortably manuever and it should be 30 feet high. Every couple hundred yards or so there should be a tower, manned by snipers with M650 .50 cal rifles and 6G-30 6-shot grenade launchers. And before the beaners reach the wall, they should have to manuever their way through a mile wide mine-field. The only way the wetbacks should be allowed through is at secured checkpoints where they will be frisked and subject to a full body cavity search. :lol:

The wall is a bad idea because it is too expensive and some states won't go for that. They tried it on the Spanish Moroccan border and it didn't work. The aliens just scaled it and they had soldiers on each side, Now both Morroco and Spain are being ostrized by their neighbors for firing on the aliens. Some places where they have the wall for a good distance they just tunnel under it.

There are not going to be any machine guns on the border because the US Government critized the Mexican government in public for doing just that on the Guatemalan border. Nobody in Washington is going to want to look like a hypocrite and leave us open to international critizi,.

Mine fields are out because of the scandal mines have caused all over the world. Besides there is always the danger of blowing up your own people.

The NG could be sent to partol the border with the BP but some governors of the border states can't afford a large deplyment (so they sat) and others have their NG troops deployed to Iraq.

It's all up to the USBP.

Maybe the Mexicans are using the same strategy and tactics that the YS used in 1840. Ever think ot that? Shudder.

 

[The Real McCoy]

The wall is a bad idea because it is too expensive and some states won't go for that. They tried it on the Spanish Moroccan border and it didn't work. The aliens just scaled it and they had soldiers on each side, Now both Morroco and Spain are being ostrized by their neighbors for firing on the aliens. Some places where they have the wall for a good distance they just tunnel under it.

There are not going to be any machine guns on the border because the US Government critized the Mexican government in public for doing just that on the Guatemalan border. Nobody in Washington is going to want to look like a hypocrite and leave us open to international critizi,.

Mine fields are out because of the scandal mines have caused all over the world. Besides there is always the danger of blowing up your own people.

Um... I was deffinitely JOKING. I figured the :lol: and the sheer absurdity of my post would have clued you in to that.

 

[The Real McCoy]

In all seriousness, we need more cooperation with the Mexican government before we can make any serious headway on the problem.

 

[Inuyasha]

Um... I was deffinitely JOKING. I figured the :lol: and the sheer absurdity of my post would have clued you in to that.

Yes but you wouldn't believe the number of people who advocate just what you have in your post. I realized you were being sarcastic because your posts are not like that at all but better to let the extremist know whats up before the thread goes out of control. You have done us a service.While I am at it, I can't read the icons. They come out like little boxes with an X in the middle. How do you turn them on.