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Bush cracking down on Mexican illegal aliens

saffron

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I think this must have been brought up here already; I've been hearing all over the California media, Bush cracking down on the Mexican illegal aliens. If I knew he was going to to this I would've voted for him! It's about freakin' time!


:doh
 

McWilliamson

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I agree that there's a problem with illegal immigration, but I also wonder what caused these people to come here in the first place. It probably wasn't so they could ruin the American way. They probably weren't thinking, "I want to go to America, so I can rot in their welfare systems and ruin their economy!"

Re-read the last sentence just in case you didn't see me say "weren't thinking".

People generally have motives for what they do. Some men steal from the supermarket to feed their family. That doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean they should be thrown out of the country.

How bad can it be in Mexico? Why come to the USA? Excuse me if I'm being ignorant.
 

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Why can't we just build a friggin wall and stop border crossings 100%? Who stops this from happening and why? Seems to me because both parties fight for the Latin vote. The builder of a wall loses the Latin vote. A case of doing what keeps you in power rather than do what is best for the country. And while were at it make it easier for Mexicans to immigrate legally. Or does that just make too much sense?
 

t125eagle

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you propose building another Hadrian's wall? i dont know if it would work. there would be some way they would get around, under, or over it. unless you post guards, but that is one long border! i'm not sure about mexico's economic situation, but i do know that it is not good. that is why they come here so much. like pres. bush said, why stay somewhere where you are making $0.50 an hour when you can go maybe 100 miles and make $50 an hour?
 

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What I don't understand is why illegal aliens get all kinds of rights. The Bill of Rights and everything still applies to them, they are still entitled to an education, to medical care, handouts, etc. We shouldn't completely close down our borders-but crack down on the illegals and get them out of here! All they are doing is eating up our tax dollars and taking jobs. The only "right" illegal immigrants should be entitled to is the right to be deported humanely! Get rid of the illegal immigrants currently in the country, and don't let many illegals into the country-beef up on border security.

This should have been done a long time ago, but at least someone is doing something about it at last!
 

t125eagle

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you know, its kinda bad that illegal immigrants get jobs at all. there are so many people in this country that are jobless and people are giving, GIVING jobs to these immigrants. they dont have to pay taxes on it, except maybe for the taxes that all workers have to pay.
 

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t125eagle said:
you know, its kinda bad that illegal immigrants get jobs at all. there are so many people in this country that are jobless and people are giving, GIVING jobs to these immigrants. they dont have to pay taxes on it, except maybe for the taxes that all workers have to pay.
Exactly!

And the democrats keep saying that we NEED the immigrants for cheap labor. That's bullshit! We have numbers in the unemployed ranks, get them some jobs! The democrats just want the votes of the immigrants...it's ridiculous...
 

saffron

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This was one of the reasons that I was embarrassed to be a Democrat. After living in southern Calif. for my entire life I have seen it sink into poverty due to all of the Mexican illegals coming (running) over here. It is a disgrace to me and my relatives who came here legally. I can't even express in words how horrible it is to live with so many of them around me.

I changed my political affiliation to Independent. Maybe if Bush had thought about this before, he may have had many more votes. But I can't imagine how he can ignore the problem with the Mexican illegals, since he is from Texas.
:shock:
 

t125eagle

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Hornburger said:
Exactly!

And the democrats keep saying that we NEED the immigrants for cheap labor. That's bullshit! We have numbers in the unemployed ranks, get them some jobs! The democrats just want the votes of the immigrants...it's ridiculous...
well, its not the immigrants vote they are after. immigrants cant vote since they are not citizens, but since most of these illegal immigrants are latino, the dems are after the latino vote.
 

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May I remind everyone that, unless you are of Native American descent, all of your ancestors came to this country in search of a better life. Just because you got here first doesn't mean you can automatically keep everyone else from coming in. I agree there is a problem, but putting up a wall and stopping immigration all together won't solve it.

Lou Dobbs must be having a field day. I don't think I've ever seen his show where he wasn't talking about illegal immigration.
 

Hornburger

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Mikkel said:
May I remind everyone that, unless you are of Native American descent, all of your ancestors came to this country in search of a better life. Just because you got here first doesn't mean you can automatically keep everyone else from coming in. I agree there is a problem, but putting up a wall and stopping immigration all together won't solve it.

Lou Dobbs must be having a field day. I don't think I've ever seen his show where he wasn't talking about illegal immigration.
Don't stop immigration completely...but at least keep the illegals out for Christ's sake.

t125eagle said:
well, its not the immigrants vote they are after. immigrants cant vote since they are not citizens, but since most of these illegal immigrants are latino, the dems are after the latino vote.
Yeah, but I was talking about like immigrants who become citizens, they are more likely to vote for democrats because they would think "oh, the democrats help people who want to come to america" even though they are illegal, but yeah, it mostly is for the latino vote like you said.
 

Mikkel

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The only way you're ever going to keep 'the illegals' out is if you give them an incentive to stay in Mexico. You could pull all the troops out of iraq and put them on the border and you'd still have people trying to get in. We need a solution better than upping the border patrol. We'll see what CAFTA can accomplish, but we have to remain open to a number of options.
 

Hornburger

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lol, what would these options be? The only available options would be let's see...pouring money into Mexico which would go to waste...increasing border security...taking away some of their rights...or doing something like building a wall lol...and we should take their rights away (besides the right to be deported safely) and increasing border security, besides getting those illegal aliens already in the country kicked out, as Bush is now trying to do. Increased security would still keep more of them out...what else would you suggest to solve the problem?
 
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Mikkel

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It's not my job to come up with ideas. If I knew the answer, I'd tell you. All I'm saying is that nobody in washington has a workable plan to fix the problem, so why should they stick their necks out and sacrifice the latino vote?- as you were mentioning earlier. Right now, my main concern is how much money is my president planning on pouring into a plan that is fundamentally flawed? I'm hoping not too much.

What it comes down to is that we need their economy to grow so that they don't have to come to the United States looking for jobs. At the same time, we need to make sure that they can start and run their own businesses, so that they aren't entirely dependent upon our economy for support. It's a tricky issue to deal with on this end, but the real solution to the problem has to come from Mexico.

In the mean time, we'll do our best to prevent illegal immigration on this end, and, in the process, try not to trample on the American Dream too much.
 

Hornburger

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Mikkel said:
It's not my job to come up with ideas. If I knew the answer, I'd tell you. All I'm saying is that nobody in washington has a workable plan to fix the problem, so why should they stick their necks out and sacrifice the latino vote?- as you were mentioning earlier. Right now, my main concern is how much money is my president planning on pouring into a plan that is fundamentally flawed? I'm hoping not too much.
How is the plan flawed?

I'm not saying that what they are doing is a bad political strategy-they get some free votes-but it is not the strategy that benefits the country as a whole...we can't support illegal aliens, we need to get them OUT of the country, not let them stay in.

What it comes down to is that we need their economy to grow so that they don't have to come to the United States looking for jobs. At the same time, we need to make sure that they can start and run their own businesses, so that they aren't entirely dependent upon our economy for support. It's a tricky issue to deal with on this end, but the real solution to the problem has to come from Mexico.
The only economy we need to support is our own. If we give Mexico money for businesses and everything, the money will surely be wasted. Throwing money at the problem just doesn't work.

In the mean time, we'll do our best to prevent illegal immigration on this end, and, in the process, try not to trample on the American Dream too much.
Yes, all we can do is try and keep illegal aliens from coming in and get the ones already in out. I don't see how by doing this we can trample on the "American Dream", the only thing we need to be concerned about with illegal aliens is deporting them as quickly and humanely as we can.
 

Mikkel

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"I'm not saying that what they are doing is a bad political strategy-they get some free votes-but it is not the strategy that benefits the country as a whole...we can't support illegal aliens, we need to get them OUT of the country, not let them stay in.
The only economy we need to support is our own. If we give Mexico money for businesses and everything, the money will surely be wasted. Throwing money at the problem just doesn't work."


I see both of these as one-in-the-same. Increasing border patrol will do just as much to stop illegal immigration as financially supporting Mexico's economy. And if you had read my post a little more closely, not once did I mention giving money to Mexico. I said it was up to them to grow their economy. I was proposing trying different trade agreements to try and solve the problem. I agree that giving money to Mexico is a waste. I also see increased spending on border patrol is a waste. It won't solve the problem, and it's more trouble than it's worth.

"Yes, all we can do is try and keep illegal aliens from coming in and get the ones already in out. I don't see how by doing this we can trample on the "American Dream", the only thing we need to be concerned about with illegal aliens is deporting them as quickly and humanely as we can."

Okay, and we have a decent force to do this now. I hate to bring international politics into the issue, but I think putting up a wall as a matter of illegal immigration prevention, we might be sending the wrong message to the rest of the world. Any policy action that tells the world that we are xenophobic, exclusive, or isolationist is a disgrace to the "American Dream," and, again, will cause us much more trouble than it's worth.
 

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Mikkel said:
I see both of these as one-in-the-same. Increasing border patrol will do just as much to stop illegal immigration as financially supporting Mexico's economy. And if you had read my post a little more closely, not once did I mention giving money to Mexico. I said it was up to them to grow their economy. I was proposing trying different trade agreements to try and solve the problem. I agree that giving money to Mexico is a waste. I also see increased spending on border patrol is a waste. It won't solve the problem, and it's more trouble than it's worth.
Oh, trade agreements...that would be fine, as long as it also supports our economy.

As for the border patrol thing...well, it would just make sense that if you hire more people, they can cover more ground and stop more illegal immigrants from crossing into Texas.

Okay, and we have a decent force to do this now. I hate to bring international politics into the issue, but I think putting up a wall as a matter of illegal immigration prevention, we might be sending the wrong message to the rest of the world. Any policy action that tells the world that we are xenophobic, exclusive, or isolationist is a disgrace to the "American Dream," and, again, will cause us much more trouble than it's worth.
Oh, I completely agree with you, I do not support putting up a wall, I just would like to crack down on getting illegals out, and try and keep them out by any reasonable means.
 

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Send Them All Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

saffron

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Mikkel said:
May I remind everyone that, unless you are of Native American descent, all of your ancestors came to this country in search of a better life.
Yes they did and my ancestors contributed and helped build this country. My grandfather on my mother's side took 10 years before he could immigrate to American, this was because he did it legally. He fought in the American Army and then joined the U.S. Track and Field team and won medals in the Olympics. Sorry, but I've never seen a MExican illegal alien in the U.S. Olympics.:3oops:
Just because you got here first doesn't mean you can automatically keep everyone else from coming in.
This is a ridiculous comment. They are here illegally!. They are illegal immigrants.
I agree there is a problem, but putting up a wall and stopping immigration all together won't solve it.
I think that keeping all of the illegal Mexican immigrants out will solve a lot of the problems in California and a few other states. Their presence in California, I believe, is the cause of the money problems this state is obviously having. I think that they should be stopped, period.
 
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saffron

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Hornburger said:
....what else would you suggest to solve the problem?
Shoot them and/or sterilize them. That would be best, I'd vote for that.:applaud
 

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I worked as a contract interpreter for the USINS during three different administrations and the whole problem of immigration is very complicated. Here are some of the things ordinary Americans want done and why they are difficult to accomplish or in some cases, impossibleñe.

The fence
A fence along 2000 miles of souther border. while only slowing down some what illegal immigration, is seen as NOT cost effective by too many people in the government. The Spanish who have an even bigger problem than we do, (believe it or not) built a fence around on of their border outpost cities in North Africa. It so far has cost over 4 million dollars and has done little to stop people. That fence is 20 feet high, made of chain link,barbed wire and razor wire. It is a double fence with about 50 meters between the two fences which is partoled by soldiers and dogs and is electrified. It is not really working and the Moroccans on the other side are like the Mexican government. Stopping people from crossing is not their first priority. Without their help the problem is almost insurmountable.

Our government does not want to look like we have built the Berlin Wall here. This has to do with their idea of international relations. It's a fight in Washington.

There are very powerful US entities who don't want this to happen and they have big lobbies in Washington so the opinion that you and I might have is listened to with less than half an ear.

We cannot use Federal troops on the border unless we change the Constitution and everyone is loathe to do that. Just out of tradition if nothing else. The National Guard is a possibility but some border state governors say their troops are deployed elsewhere and they haven't got enough NG troops for the job.

Just shoot them as they come over or mine the border. This, of course, is a more than stupid statement. It is moronic. This is the United States. We don't do that here. There was a case of shooting on the Spanish - Moroccan border and the backlash was terrible all over the world. This won't happen.

There are also some border areas where a Native American "nation" is located on both sides of the border. The Yaqui nation is one example. They control the border on their land and they have always, since the establishment of the border, had control. We cannot break those treaties legally.

We need realistic solutions and no one wants to come up with them.

The EU is mulling the idea of a sort of Marshall plan for the underdeveloped nations that have great numbers of illegal immigrants, The plan is in its infancy but one of the stipulations is that the money is managed by a commision of the donor nations so that the money will get to the people to build local industry and not wind up in some Swiss back account of some despot. There are possibilities here. There's a lot more but this post is too long already.
 

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The only reasonable way I see of keep more illegal aliens from coming in is increasing the size of the border patrol.
 

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Hornburger said:
The only reasonable way I see of keep more illegal aliens from coming in is increasing the size of the border patrol.
Nobody even wants that job. We may have to hire illegals to do it if recruitment doesn't pick up soon. Anyway the uniforms are being made in Mexico. Maybe they'll just fill them with a free Mexican if we buy them in bulk:lol: .
 

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haha...yeah

I guess we are stuck then? Ahh well.
 

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saffron said:
I think this must have been brought up here already; I've been hearing all over the California media, Bush cracking down on the Mexican illegal aliens. If I knew he was going to to this I would've voted for him! It's about freakin' time!


:doh
I dont know why you give these imigrants so much crap. There comeing all this way to clean your toliets. All the poor guys are trying to do is get a better payed job. what happend to life liberty and pursuit of happiness? Its not like americas short of space i imagine states like texas could easly cope with serveral times the population they have now so why not let more people in?
 
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