British "Youth Scheme" Tory's - i totally back it

[MetalGear]

Veteran actor Sir Michael Caine has backed David Cameron's plans for voluntary "national citizen service" for all 16-year-olds.
Under the proposal, all teenagers of that age would be able to join a two-month summer residential scheme, with outdoor activities and community work.
The Conservative leader said it would be "in the same spirit" as the old military National Service.
Labour and the Lib Dems both questioned how the scheme would be funded.
'Forgotten youngsters'
Joined by Sir Michael at a press conference in central London, Mr Cameron said the proposal would bring together young people from widely different backgrounds, something he said did not take place at present.

BBC News - Michael Caine backs Tories' youth citizen service plan

 

[MetalGear]

They need to bring back compulsory British military service too. Didn't do any harm to the Germans.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Ought to be two-tier with the decent kids doing good jobs for nice money, whilst the feral scum who blight our estates being made, free of charge, to clean the grubbiest toilets, repair the vandalism and pick up the gob they're responsible for.



It can be paid for by cutting the growing gush of the money fountain which flows to all and sundry in the name of 'foreign aid'. Don't they know there's a recession on, in which all else is ruthlessly cut? Does India really need that space programme? Must third world despots take a bigger lion's share of the lolly we fling them with few questions asked?

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2010/UK-aid-hits-45-year-high/



We have our own poor, as Labour themselves know with their record child poverty figures. And our own services - the UK Border Agency faces a 30% cut in staff despite the record high number of foreign criminals who have snuk in wanting an amnesty.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labours-record-on-poverty-in-tatters-1681047.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ts-would-cost-1m-each-if-granted-amnesty.html

Though we're too scummy, choosy and worthless to look after ourselves without illegal immigrant help, says same Lefty policy think tank who told Labour to marginalise Christmas for some foreigners: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-immigrants-is-worth-1636bn-to-uk-472164.html

Our verminous politicians don't even want them gone it seems: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nts-arrested-Dover--trying-LEAVE-Britain.html

But never mind, there's the asylum flood to pamper us too: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391082-200000-asylum-seekers-to-get-amnesty.do


Is all this prioritising of foreigners what our NHS, pensions and local authority cuts are in aid of?




...Oh dear, I've digressed again. But back to topic - good plan, yes indeed.

 

[jujuman13]

Ought to be two-tier with the decent kids doing good jobs for nice money, whilst the feral scum who blight our estates being made, free of charge, to clean the grubbiest toilets, repair the vandalism and pick up the gob they're responsible for.



It can be paid for by cutting the growing gush of the money fountain which flows to all and sundry in the name of 'foreign aid'. Don't they know there's a recession on, in which all else is ruthlessly cut? Does India really need that space programme? Must third world despots take a bigger lion's share of the lolly we fling them with few questions asked?

DFID - UK aid hits 45 year high



We have our own poor, as Labour themselves know with their record child poverty figures. And our own services - the UK Border Agency faces a 30% cut in staff despite the record high number of foreign criminals who have snuk in wanting an amnesty.


Labour's record on poverty in tatters - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Illegal immigrants 'would cost £1m each if granted amnesty' - Telegraph

Though we're too scummy, choosy and worthless to look after ourselves without illegal immigrant help, says same Lefty policy think tank who told Labour to marginalise Christmas for some foreigners: Amnesty on illegal immigrants is 'worth £6bn to UK' - This Britain, UK - The Independent

Our verminous politicians don't even want them gone it seems: Illegal immigrants arrested at Dover - while trying to LEAVE Britain | Mail Online

But never mind, there's the asylum flood to pamper us too: 200,000 asylum seekers to get amnesty| News | This is London


Is all this prioritising of foreigners what our NHS, pensions and local authority cuts are in aid of?




...Oh dear, I've digressed again. But back to topic - good plan, yes indeed.

My thanks were to the original point.
The rest of it was amusing.

 

[Andalublue]

Ought to be two-tier with the decent kids doing good jobs for nice money, whilst the feral scum who blight our estates being made, free of charge, to clean the grubbiest toilets, repair the vandalism and pick up the gob they're responsible for.

And I guess you'd like to be on the panel that decides which are the 'decent' kids and which the 'feral scum'.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Yup!

I'll spend half the day doing it properly, then a lazier afternoon consigning them all to the scrapheap!

Well, if they have this habit of all dressing the same... Bloody kids!

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

The rest of it was amusing.

Can't help thinking that's meant in a condescending way. From most of the posters on here I take such attitudes as a badge of pride, seeing as there's no actual rebuttal when I'm sneered at.

 

[Andalublue]

Yup!

I'll spend half the day doing it properly, then a lazier afternoon consigning them all to the scrapheap!

Well, if they have this habit of all dressing the same... Bloody kids!

Nice beenie hat. Do you wear a hoodie too?

 

[jujuman13]

No point in rebutting what is very likely true.

I am not sure that 2 or 3 months would do much.

So often plans such as these start out as 'Sound Bites', they are used for electioneering, as soon elections are over, they are consigned to the deep dark recesses of a Politicians idea's box.

The fact that the weak chinned wonder of the Tory party opined this means it will almost certainly not be used if, God forbid he actually gets to be PM.

I pray for a Hung parliament with the LibDems holding the balance.

 

[Andalublue]

The fact that the weak chinned wonder of the Tory party opined this means it will almost certainly not be used if, God forbid he actually gets to be PM.

I think we all know the Tory attitude to electoral promises. Anyone remember, "We have absolutely no intention of doubling VAT"? You'll never guess what they did when they got elected.

How Tories kept secret of 15% VAT hike - UK, News - The Independent

 

[Manc Skipper]

It seem Sir Michael isn't a Tory voter after all.....

'I've always thought: "Always back a winner." It's basically already won. I'm not talking about the [Conservative] party. What happens there I don't know"

Sir Michael Caine

 

[Andalublue]

It seem Sir Michael isn't a Tory voter after all.....

'I've always thought: "Always back a winner." It's basically already won. I'm not talking about the [Conservative] party. What happens there I don't know"

Sir Michael Caine

I think you'll find he is. He's just a bit mealy-mouthed about it. He's a strong advocate of lower taxes for the very wealthy and has been a tax exile at a couple of times in the past.

I look forward to seeing lots of other celebs coming out of the woodwork in support of the various combatant parties. Cue Sean Connery on the stump for the SNP. Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan for Labour. Daniel Radcliffe for the Lib Dems. It all leaves me a bit cold, TBH.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Sir Sean's support of the SNP is particularly galling, since he loves Scotland so much, he's lived in Barbados for 40 years.

 

[MetalGear]

I still support Mandatory military service over this, but its a start.

Kids 16 or over who drop out of school or dont go university must enlist as a private.

Kids who leave school with plans to go onto higher education must be allowed to do so, but have to join the army once they receive there diplomas and enlist as a Sergent.

Privates go home on the weekends every 3 months and have to serve up to 12 months in the military.

Sergent's go home every weekends and get payed minimum wage, and must serve up to 12 months.

Sergent's have the choice of taking a military exam, and if they pass, they get to choose where to be stationed at.

Foreign students who arrive in England to live, under the age of 18, are also subject to military enrollment.

Those who can afford it can pay a sum up front to the army to:

A) Get there military service time reduced
B) Do alternative methods of civil service


Those over the age of 50 are no longer subject to compulsory military service.

This is the system in most countries where military enlistment is compulsory for those out of education.

 

[Andalublue]

I still support Mandatory military service over this, but its a start.

Kids 16 or over who drop out of school or dont go university must enlist as a private.

Kids who leave school with plans to go onto higher education must be allowed to do so, but have to join the army once they receive there diplomas and enlist as a Sergent.

Privates go home on the weekends every 3 months and have to serve up to 12 months in the military.

Sergent's go home every weekends and get payed minimum wage, and must serve up to 12 months.

Sergent's have the choice of taking a military exam, and if they pass, they get to choose where to be stationed at.

Foreign students who arrive in England to live, under the age of 18, are also subject to military enrollment.

Those who can afford it can pay a sum up front to the army to:

A) Get there military service time reduced
B) Do alternative methods of civil service


Those over the age of 50 are no longer subject to compulsory military service.

This is the system in most countries where military enlistment is compulsory for those out of education.

I completely and utterly disagree with you, my good friend MetalGear.

Conscription does not produce a motivated or appropriate fighting force. Ask the professional soldiers if they want to command, train or serve alongside people who do not want to be there. All you produce is a mass of cannon fodder.

Secondly, forcing someone to give up their personal freedom and submit to work against their will is a form of forced labour, aka slavery. This may be necessary in times of war, but we are not at war and there is no current military threat to the UK that justifies the suspension of basic personal freedoms.

Thirdly, what happens when the economy takes an upturn and the labour you are taking out of the available workforce is not available to staff the jobs that you need to fuel that economic recovery? Do you just drop the scheme?

Fourthly, it is a very expensive idea. You need to house, train, feed, clothe and manage a body of people who will serve no useful purpose. Job creation and training of the unemployed if a far more ethical, economic and efficient way of dealing with youth unemployment.

 

[MetalGear]

I completely and utterly disagree with you, my good friend MetalGear.

Conscription does not produce a motivated or appropriate fighting force. Ask the professional soldiers if they want to command, train or serve alongside people who do not want to be there. All you produce is a mass of cannon fodder.

:mrgreen:
True but my intention wasn't to boost the armed forces. Its about discipline and respect. Even then, not every soldier joins knowing how to use a gun or survive on the battlefield. In fact you are not expected to know. The military is about personal growth, development and discipline, as well as life experience.

Secondly, forcing someone to give up their personal freedom and submit to work against their will is a form of forced labour, aka slavery. This may be necessary in times of war, but we are not at war and there is no current military threat to the UK that justifies the suspension of basic personal freedoms.

We are at war. I see where you are coming from, from a personal freedoms POV. I still think its good discipline for the youngsters.

Thirdly, what happens when the economy takes an upturn and the labour you are taking out of the available workforce is not available to staff the jobs that you need to fuel that economic recovery? Do you just drop the scheme?

Thats true, its always a possibility that the military soaks up too many jobs. Lets face it though, considering the current levels of unemployment, this isnt really a short term concern. My concerns with military service is that there is a lost year of private/public sector employment in the youth, who generally tend to work for less than most adults and its good for a lot of businesses. This can harm the economy quiet a bit. Maybe it should be limited to kids who drop out of school and dont go onto further education? What do you think?