Breaking, Ammon Bundy in Custody

[MickeyW]

Could be that I don't talk to you directly because I don't much give a **** about your opinion. It could also be that you and all the rest keep making the same 'error' (or better yet...you just keep repeating the same lie) when it comes to the Bundy's or this whole ordeal. I've never defended the Bundy's. I've never said they should be held unaccountable. In point of fact I have said since day one that if they break laws they should be held accountable. I've said since day one the presence of weapons doesn't scare me, but if any of them use them or even aim at a cop, all bets are off. My position has been clear and consistent since day one. The REAL problem...is that you and people like you (read 'Beefhurt') have since day one responded with your own personal bias and hatred. Consequently...you lose objectivity and the capacity for rational thought. Mind you...I'm fine with that. I find your constant blathering and lies amusing.

As has been said. Go back to the very beginning of this. Name one time where I have said what they are doing is right, a good thing, or should be supported. You know you cant. Name one time where Ive said if there is criminal activity they should be given a free pass. You cant. You know you cant. Yet...you lie. Over...and over...and over.......................and over. See...that ****s funny to me.

I mostly agree. They were given ample opportunity to leave, right up until yesterday. I am sad that they didn't and a good man had to be killed over this. I am also sad that our Governor and the media, lied continuously! Par for the course with liberal douchebags!
I think dissent in America is a good thing, especially when exposing the abuses of the Federal Govt.

But, you nailed these buggers well...and accurately! I'm thinking many of these dopes probably supported the OWS, movement...but rail over this one.

 

[reinoe]

Could be that I don't talk to you directly because I don't much give a **** about your opinion. It could also be that you and all the rest keep making the same 'error' (or better yet...you just keep repeating the same lie) when it comes to the Bundy's or this whole ordeal. I've never defended the Bundy's. I've never said they should be held unaccountable. In point of fact I have said since day one that if they break laws they should be held accountable. I've said since day one the presence of weapons doesn't scare me, but if any of them use them or even aim at a cop, all bets are off. My position has been clear and consistent since day one. The REAL problem...is that you and people like you (read 'Beefhurt') have since day one responded with your own personal bias and hatred. Consequently...you lose objectivity and the capacity for rational thought. Mind you...I'm fine with that. I find your constant blathering and lies amusing.

As has been said. Go back to the very beginning of this. Name one time where I have said what they are doing is right, a good thing, or should be supported. You know you cant. Name one time where Ive said if there is criminal activity they should be given a free pass. You cant. You know you cant. Yet...you lie. Over...and over...and over.......................and over. See...that ****s funny to me.

You are making excuses for these welfare queens. Everyone sees it. Your position has absolutely been clear: these welfare queens are patriotic for demanding public land to be used for their own personal benefit.

 

[beefheart]

:lamo

You using the word 'dishonest'....THATS funny.

Name one time I have defended them. Name one time I have suggested they shouldn't be held accountable. Look...just be honest. For once. I called you on your rage hating bull**** from day one and it has started you on your path of lies and kept you repeating them. And don't worry...you have plenty of company.

You constantly seeked to downplay what was going on. Honestly, we have been over this many times, and its all out there, others saw it too. But, you still pretend not to see it, hilarious.

So much anger from you......

 

[JANFU]

Yes they did....and should have left. But at no time did they threaten to use any firearms! They stated that the first week! The man said, "we don't want to shoot anyone and we don't want to be shot"...all we want is a peaceful resolution. Self defense only. Nothing wrong with that.

Keep in mind that they met peacefully with the Sheriff at least twice and with the FBI negotiator and attended a community meeting in the town of Burns. At no time did they threaten anyone!!

If the Police were to attempt their removal they would have used force. That includes weapons.

 

[MickeyW]

Just noting the dishonest practices you use when you attempt to debate. Everyone sees it. Quite pathetic.

What Total BS!

I don't think that you ever posted anything here that I agreed with and your rhetoric here, is disgusting.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I mostly agree. They were given ample opportunity to leave, right up until yesterday. I am sad that they didn't and a good man had to be killed over this. I am also sad that our Governor and the media, lied continuously! Par for the course with liberal douchebags!
I think dissent in America is a good thing, especially when exposing the abuses of the Federal Govt.

But, you nailed these buggers well...and accurately! I'm thinking many of these dopes probably supported the OWS, movement...but rail over this one.

Your "good man" was a low-level terrorist thug, who threatened law officers from under his tarp, and whose income came from fostering 11 kids. He was "father" to 50! A high plains grifter posing as a "patriot"

 

[VanceMack]

You constantly seeked to downplay what was going on. Honestly, we have been over this many times, and its all out there, others saw it too. But, you still pretend not to see it, hilarious.

So much anger from you......

:lamo

The opposite of anger, baby. That's all you.

Ive NEVER downplayed this. Not once. I just haven't been frothy over the prospect of dead bodies. From either side.

 

[roguenuke]

Rumour has it he shot himself with a Krytonite bullet.

In any case we've still got Batman (And Robin.)

:lol:

There are many Robins (and have been several Batmans).

 

[VanceMack]

I mostly agree. They were given ample opportunity to leave, right up until yesterday. I am sad that they didn't and a good man had to be killed over this. I am also sad that our Governor and the media, lied continuously! Par for the course with liberal douchebags!
I think dissent in America is a good thing, especially when exposing the abuses of the Federal Govt.

But, you nailed these buggers well...and accurately! I'm thinking many of these dopes probably supported the OWS, movement...but rail over this one.

Ive never taken sides on any of this. Ive seen this as just another instance of civil disobedience. Nothing more...nothing less. I understand the cause but the states are showing a better way of dealing with the fed through the courts.

 

[VanceMack]

You are making excuses for these welfare queens. Everyone sees it. Your position has absolutely been clear: these welfare queens are patriotic for demanding public land to be used for their own personal benefit.

OK then. Cite the post where I have made an excuse for them and their actions. Show me where I have said they shouldn't be held accountable. Should be a breeze since you have so often repeated the lie.

 

[reinoe]

If the Police were to attempt their removal they would have used force. That includes weapons.

Maybe by "force" they mean Jedi Mind trick? The new Star Wars Movie did come out last month...

 

[Donc]

Protesting for a cause! Same as the Bundys. Being arrested for that cause....same as the Bundys.

But, all the libs celebrated what he was doing!

NOT!unless he was armed and took over and occupied a 81,786-acre bird sanctuary.:lol:

 

[MickeyW]

You are making excuses for these welfare queens. Everyone sees it. Your position has absolutely been clear: these welfare queens are patriotic for demanding public land to be used for their own personal benefit.

Welfare queens? Hardly. These are hard working ranchers. Welfare queens are Democrats, or anyone else who vote for obama or Hillary. The Ferguson types, the Baltimore types, the New Orleans types....that's the true definition of welfare queens.......not Ranchers with families to feed.
You stick up for life long criminals and want to bash these minor criminals.

If the Police were to attempt their removal they would have used force. That includes weapons.

"IF" is a big word JF and you have no way of knowing that!!! 100% guessing!

Your "good man" was a low-level terrorist thug, who threatened law officers from under his tarp, and whose income came from fostering 11 kids. He was "father" to 50! A high plains grifter posing as a "patriot"

Father to 50? A terrorist thug? He doesn't even fit the definition of either a terrorist...or a thug! Go back to school....you've failed!

As a cop on the streets for 25 years, I've seen a plethora of both and you don't know WTF you are talking about! Probably never met one either!

Ive never taken sides on any of this. Ive seen this as just another instance of civil disobedience. Nothing more...nothing less. I understand the cause but the states are showing a better way of dealing with the fed through the courts.

I haven't seen much from the states on this. And you are correct....civil disobedience. Nothing more than so many in Hollywood have done for years with much celebration of their actions by the general public.

I think many here are total hypocrites on this issue....not you.

OK then. Cite the post where I have made an excuse for them and their actions. Show me where I have said they shouldn't be held accountable. Should be a breeze since you have so often repeated the lie.

And man when it's something like this.....they lie and lie and lie!

 

[JasperL]

Let me be clear.

1. I did not fully condone what they were doing, or how they did it, and I was hoping for a peaceful resolution, about a week ago.

2. They did not take over any public facility...by force. The building is empty this time of year and they did not force anyone off the property or ever draw, or point, any weapon. It is reckless of the media when they say "armed take over"...they forced no one at any time, to do anything against their will, or at gun point!

The refuge is open all year. It wasn't occupied when they arrived because the employees had been told to stay home - officials suspected the plan was at least possibly to take over the refuge and so pulled all employees as a precaution. And once crazy thugs with guns moved in, there is no way the employees could be sent to work to do their jobs - it would have been reckless. Furthermore they had armed guards all over the property, at times blocked the main roads in with their vehicles and the only reason they weren't ejected long ago was the threat of violence from nutjobs who made no secret about their willingness to use guns to remain there - i.e. as Bundy put it, to "kill or be killed."

So it's not reckless - it's a statement of fact - that they engaged in an armed takeover of that federal facility.

3. This was an occupation(Trespass), not an armed take over. They had weapons for self protection and stated that early on. I carry a weapon daily for the same reason.

OK, but if you take your pistol into a federal courthouse, barricade yourself in a judge's office and start issuing demands, and refuse to leave when ordered, that is an armed takeover of that real estate. You're pretending that having a gun isn't at least an implied threat of deadly violence. It changes EVERYTHING about how the LEOs have to deal with you. The guy shot wouldn't come out and say it, but he repeatedly said he wouldn't be taken, would not spend any days in jail, and he's armed. So it's a straight up threat to 'kill or be killed' and apparently he wasn't kidding. He's now dead.

4. They most certainly brought this problem with the Feds, to the attention of the Nation....the Gov. of Oregon and other so called law makers, bashed this action and the media dressed it up every damn day as "evil". Far from it.

I don't think many called them evil, just reckless, dangerous, idiots, etc.

5. From a LE standpoint, when they headed to John Day, Or., they were separated from the main group and the empty building, it was the perfect time to take them down. A lonely road with few to no witnesses. The fact that a decent man(father of 11)and citizen had to be killed, is a sad day and echoes Ruby Ridge. However, the FBI may have been justified....we will see. After all, they got away with murder of innocents at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Yes, in both cases, they had to take some action, but their action was reckless and violated the law.

6. The worse crime that the occupiers committed, was "trespassing on Federal Land" . At no time, prior to last night, did they threaten to harm anyone.

Well, they did threaten law enforcement who had the right to remove them from property they do not own. If you say, and I'm paraphrasing here, "I will not be arrested, will not go to jail, and I'm armed, and willing to kill or be killed" that is a threat. It's especially a threat when at no time do you say, "Of course, if they come to arrest me I will put down my weapons and surrender peacefully." LEOs correctly took it as the threat it is and was, which is why they're still not forcibly removing the remaining occupiers.

 

[reinoe]

OK then. Cite the post where I have made an excuse for them and their actions. Show me where I have said they shouldn't be held accountable. Should be a breeze since you have so often repeated the lie.

Why make that illogical leap? No one said its 'ok'.

Look...people that are on the ground have made the determination that the best decision is to let this play out peacefully and not create even the potential for a violent conflict. Why that is so hard for others to understand is beyond me. Some will say they dont want blood and they dont want dead bodies...but they are full of ****. They want it...they just know how grotesque they would look actually speaking the words. This is an act of civil disobedience occurring in a shack out in the middle of nowhere. Its not worth killing for it. Its not worth dying for it.

Thats such a sad argument. It gets more embarrassing every time it gets repeated. Occupation of government buildings is considered a time honored act of civil disobedience..

You're making excuses for them by saying that this was an act of civil disobedience. I also notice you've finally stopped mentioning the "shack in the middle of nowhere" after it was pointed out to you repeatedly that it's a cluster of buildings that are fairly large. Last time I checked "peaceful protesters" like Martin Luther King jr, and Mahatma Ghandi didn't march around with guns slung over their shoulders. You're a spectacular failure in every respect when it comes to backtracking on this issue.

And once upon a time you mentioned that these people have legitimate gripes when it comes to federal "takeover" of state land and that's an argument you've also thoroughly abandoned. If only you would just stop making excuses for these people. Oh and you also seem to have trouble with the English language. Making excuses/= excusing. I've repeatedy said you have made excuses for these people and that is 100% true.

 

[JANFU]

Welfare queens? Hardly. These are hard working ranchers. Welfare queens are Democrats, or anyone else who vote for obama or Hillary. The Ferguson types, the Baltimore types, the New Orleans types....that's the true definition of welfare queens.......not Ranchers with families to feed.
You stick up for life long criminals and want to bash these minor criminals.



"IF" is a big word JF and you have no way of knowing that!!! 100% guessing!



Father to 50? A terrorist thug? He doesn't even fit the definition of either a terrorist...or a thug! Go back to school....you've failed!

As a cop on the streets for 25 years, I've seen a plethora of both and you don't know WTF you are talking about! Probably never met one either!


I haven't seen much from the states on this. And you are correct....civil disobedience. Nothing more than so many in Hollywood have done for years with much celebration of their actions by the general public.

I think many here are total hypocrites on this issue....not you.



And man when it's something like this.....they lie and lie and lie!

No need for weapons then, was there?

 

[roguenuke]

Let me be clear.

1. I did not fully condone what they were doing, or how they did it, and I was hoping for a peaceful resolution, about a week ago.

2. They did not take over any public facility...by force. The building is empty this time of year and they did not force anyone off the property or ever draw, or point, any weapon. It is reckless of the media when they say "armed take over"...they forced no one at any time, to do anything against their will, or at gun point!

3. This was an occupation(Trespass), not an armed take over. They had weapons for self protection and stated that early on. I carry a weapon daily for the same reason.

4. They most certainly brought this problem with the Feds, to the attention of the Nation....the Gov. of Oregon and other so called law makers, bashed this action and the media dressed it up every damn day as "evil". Far from it.

5. From a LE standpoint, when they headed to John Day, Or., they were separated from the main group and the empty building, it was the perfect time to take them down. A lonely road with few to no witnesses. The fact that a decent man(father of 11)and citizen had to be killed, is a sad day and echoes Ruby Ridge. However, the FBI may have been justified....we will see. After all, they got away with murder of innocents at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Yes, in both cases, they had to take some action, but their action was reckless and violated the law.

6. The worse crime that the occupiers committed, was "trespassing on Federal Land" . At no time, prior to last night, did they threaten to harm anyone.

Again, saying these guys had their weapons for their protection and therefore this should somehow not be part of the crime itself is like saying some bank robbers who enter a bank vault at night, and don't encounter anyone while they are stealing the money, however they are armed and willing to use those weapons against anyone trying to interfere with their crime, whether for protection or intimidation purposes. If the bank robbers never have any reason to brandish their weapon, fire them, or threaten anyone with them due to nothing else but luck, should we ignore that they had the weapons on them during the crime?

 

[MickeyW]

NOT!unless he was armed and took over and occupied a 81,786-acre bird sanctuary.:lol:

Armed has really nothing to do with it. We have an open carry law in Oregon and this is Public Land. The birds probably don't care.

Trespassing and civil disobedience is all this was.

 

[reinoe]

Welfare queens? Hardly. These are hard working ranchers. Welfare queens are Democrats, or anyone else who vote for obama or Hillary. The Ferguson types, the Baltimore types, the New Orleans types....that's the true definition of welfare queens.......not Ranchers with families to feed.
You stick up for life long criminals and want to bash these minor criminals!

The Bundy clan are lifelong criminals. They've been using public property for their own personal benefit for decades.

 

[beefheart]

What Total BS!

I don't think that you ever posted anything here that I agreed with and your rhetoric here, is disgusting.

Ask me if I care how you feel.

But, I'm right.

 

[Donc]

Armed has really nothing to do with it. We have an open carry law in Oregon and this is Public Land. The birds probably don't care.

Trespassing and civil disobedience is all this was.

As for as i know its not legal to arm yourself and take over a the 81,786-acre bird sanctuary.At least it was not when I was born in Medford, back in the day.:lamo

 

[beefheart]

Armed has really nothing to do with it. We have an open carry law in Oregon and this is Public Land. The birds probably don't care.

Trespassing and civil disobedience is all this was.

Armed has a lot to do with it...they made threats, they illegally took over a federal building, they said they would use force.

Your heroes are really stupid wingnuts, and they are gonna be incarcerated for a long long time. And its a good thing.

 

[beefheart]

The Bundy clan are lifelong criminals. They've been using public property for their own personal benefit for decades.

They are lowlife welfare queens. They entered into a contract, and didn't pay up. Hopefully the feds will pick up Cliven and toss his ass in the clinky. Pay up deadbeat!

 

[MickeyW]

No need for weapons then, was there?

Just for self defense. This is remote, open land with wild animals and sometimes very bad people. We have an Open Carry Law here...almost all farmers, ranchers and regular citizens are armed here. Hell, most of the kids are armed. You guys really have no idea what you are talking about. I never go to Eastern Oregon or anywhere else...unarmed.

Again, saying these guys had their weapons for their protection and therefore this should somehow not be part of the crime itself is like saying some bank robbers who enter a bank vault at night, and don't encounter anyone while they are stealing the money, however they are armed and willing to use those weapons against anyone trying to interfere with their crime, whether for protection or intimidation purposes. If the bank robbers never have any reason to brandish their weapon, fire them, or threaten anyone with them due to nothing else but luck, should we ignore that they had the weapons on them during the crime?

Apples and Oranges......bank robbery is a Part One, major crime, these folks were committing very minor crimes that the state and FBI were willing to let them leave on.....armed and all!!!!

Armed has really no bearing in this, unless they drew those weapons and pointed them and threatened someone. They did neither. As for last night, we have not had any info on specifics of that police action.

 

[MickeyW]

Armed has a lot to do with it...they made threats, they illegally took over a federal building, they said they would use force.

Your heroes are really stupid wingnuts, and they are gonna be incarcerated for a long long time. And its a good thing.

Let's tell the truth for a change beefheart....they ARE NOT my heroes.....never were! So that is a LIE! Got it?

They made no threats to anyone AND ARMED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you have a link to that...post it .........or shut up!

They said they would use force? Sight the link!

They may not behave like you think good, docile, citizens should behave....but then is that all you are familiar with?