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Brain-dead woman must carry fetus to birth because of abortion ban, family says

EnchantedMuggle said:
Did I say she definitely chose to be pregnant?
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Now you are inserting words into your own statements to weasel away from the claim that only your beliefs about her choices matter.

Convenient.

😁
 
Napoleon said:
Cadavers don’t make choices.
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Glad you agree that the state is using cadavers to bring fetuses to term.

Very horrific stuff.

😁
 
Hatuey said:
Now you are inserting words into your own statements to weasel away from the claim that only your beliefs about her choices matter.

Convenient.

😁
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Okay.

When did I just say she did choose?

Or just "she chose"? Or "would have chosen.." whichever you're claiming...doesn't really matter.

So...show your work.

When did I say my beliefs about her choices matter, much less only my beliefs? Can you show me?

If not, then who are you arguing with? 😂 Are you 100% certain you're answering the right poster? Not being facetious. Do you have the right person? I don't know how to argue against claims I never made...so this is kinda going nowhere, TBH...
 
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EnchantedMuggle said:
Okay. When did I just say she did choose?
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EnchantedMuggle said:
She chose to have a pregnancy,
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We get it.

You know she chose to have a pregnancy. Anyone who thinks the state forcing her brain dead body to carry a fetus to term is horrific just doesn't get the intricacies of a choice she never had or made in the first place like you do.

😂
 
Hatuey said:
We get it.

You know she chose to have a pregnancy. Anyone who thinks the state forcing her brain dead body to carry a fetus to term is horrific just doesn't get the intricacies of a choice she never had or made in the first place like you do.

😂
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Show me where I said this.

I mean literally never said any of this...full stop...you have the wrong poster or something. I just don't know what else to say, my actual words are right in this thread to read.

I can't help you further, sorry.
 
EnchantedMuggle said:
Show me where I said this.
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First, I show that you lied about her choices to justify a silly argument about choices she never made. Now you want me to show everyone that you were waxing poetically about how well you understood choice compared to everyone else?

Is this you?

This seems tough for some libs here as well as MAGAs to grasp: choice means choice.
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What choices?!?!?! This person never had one.

😅
 
Napoleon said:
You might be struck by lightning or hit by a bus tomorrow. Is it “pointless” for you to be alive?
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Yes. We literally mean nothing.
Our planet could be wiped out tomorrow and nobody would ever know.

But this really has nothing to do with the topic so. Do you have anything to add or am I just moving on?
 
Napoleon said:
I think the point of it is obvious. She doesn’t need her body anymore but her child does. Surely the pro-abortion movement hasn’t stooped so low as to claim that a female cadaver has more rights than a living unborn child, has it?
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They do have more rights. No one can make a person let another person use their body against their will and that applies to the dead. You can’t take organs from a deceased person unless they consented to it, while do you think that they can be used as an artificial incubator without consenting to it?
 
Questerr said:
They do have more rights. No one can make a person let another person use their body against their will and that applies to the dead. You can’t take organs from a deceased person unless they consented to it, while do you think that they can be used as an artificial incubator without consenting to it?
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A cadaver is not a person. It has no rights.
 
Self proclaimed liberal with a kamal harris profile picture and you’re being an apologist for draconian anti abortion bullshit and thin
EnchantedMuggle said:
WTF? No.

What do you suggest we do to force this family's rights in GA to be respected? In addition to our already constant, never-ending battle for women's bodily rights. I'm curious.

I'm a woman, I have fought for my and other women's rights for 40 years...but...I should also change how people vote in GA? How? Have you been watching and listening to us for the past 9 years, at least? But...it's still our fault and we should make Georgians vote the way we want them to? How?

Is *any* of the responsibility on these red states? BTW, we also fought for this not to be state's rights in the first place...
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Again you think rights are something to be determined by votes. They aren’t.

And once agian, there was no vote on abortion in GA for their state law.
 
Questerr said:
So the government could force everyone to be an organ donor after they die?
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Not the same thing at all. Stick to the topic. There is no way to slice this that is even consistent with the pro-choice position. Adriana Smith was legally and medically dead before she could make any choices about her pregnancy. The unborn child became a ward of the State the moment she died. Since when do pro-choice people believe that the choice is transferable, ie that somebody else can decide to kill her unborn child?
 
Napoleon said:
Not the same thing at all. Stick to the topic. There is no way to slice this that is even consistent with the pro-choice position. Adriana Smith was legally and medically dead before she could make any choices about her pregnancy. The unborn child became a ward of the State the moment she died. Since when do pro-choice people believe that the choice is transferable, ie that somebody else can decide to kill her unborn child?
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It’s exactly the same thing. The government cannot violate a person’s bodily autonomy even after they are dead. The government cannot make you give up your organs after death unless you consented when you were alive.

Why do you think the government should have the power to force women to use their organs for other people after they die?
 
Napoleon said:
A cadaver is not a person.
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She is not a cadaver. Were she a cadaver, the pregnancy would be as well.

She is legally brain dead, which is a complete cessation of brain function.
Have you ever seen a brain dead person? I have and have been part of the process to declare a person brain dead.

Napoleon said:
It has no rights.
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I'll give you that.

She is on life support, her heart is beating to preserve a compromised fetus.
Newkirk told WXIA that doctors told the family that the fetus has fluid on the brain and that they are concerned about his health.
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She was declared brain dead in February. She is now 21 weeks pregnant. That means she probably knew of her pregnancy.
Do we know her wishes? Did she want another child? Families talk about these things so I'd like to know.

Monica Simpson, the executive director of SisterSong, the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging Georgia’s abortion law, said the situation was problematic.

“Her family deserved the right to have decision-making power about her medical decisions,” Simpson said in a statement.
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“Instead, they have endured over 90 days of retraumatization, expensive medical costs, and the cruelty of being unable to resolve and move toward healing.”
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Who should be financially responsible for keeping her heart pumping, for the child when born? Should we hold responsible the lawmakers who came up with this nonsense? Those who support it?
www.theguardian.com

Pregnant US woman declared brain dead is being kept alive under state abortion law

Doctors are keeping Adriana Smith on life support months after medical emergency until baby is ready, family says
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Bonnot said:
Self proclaimed liberal with a kamal harris profile picture and you’re being an apologist for draconian anti abortion bullshit and thin

Again you think rights are something to be determined by votes. They aren’t.

And once agian, there was no vote on abortion in GA for their state law.
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Votes strongly count when trying to fight for your rights. If one votes for conservatives who will NOT fight for your rights then you're probably kind ol ****ed.

The people of Georgia should be standing up to say *they do* get a vote on issues like this before they're signed into state law.

How can I do this in CA with the people of GA against me? (To give one example. I could be in any state.) And how loudly and how long (40 years and counting so far) am I supposed to keep begging people to stand up for their rights before it's actually partly their own responsibility?

This *is* the people of GA's responsibility. Claiming that not somehow going in and changing all that (not sure how) *for them* while they don't do anything, is like not standing up against segregation, is just bizarre, TBH.

And yes, we're talking about a consitutional change but in the post-Dobbs world this is what it's down to.

When does it actually become the responsibility of the people not bothering to fight any of this in their own state, v. being, for decades and decades, the responsibility of other people who are actually apparently going *against* the people of those state's wishes?

When does it become us forcing them?

I have fought the big fight for many a year. I continue to do so...but I absolutely fail to see how it's my fault or responsibility if I don't make this happen for GA.

Do they want this changed? Do they want things like this not to happen?

Okay. Then they need to stand the heck up and do something about it. Until then, THEY ARE the ones woh are complicit. Full stop. You and I and the entire globe has seen how long and hard the "bad people who want to mutilate children" are already working at this, we are definitely not responsible if the people themselves refuse to do anything.

They may, God please forbid, end up in this situation some day and it seems -- from the perspective of someone who has argued for choice for coming up on half a decade now -- they just won't learn, or even care all that much until and unless it's personal.

Now...if the people of GA do want to stand up against this, I'm on their side. But I can't tie them up and drag them to the Lib dark side, LOL. (Which is how many, many, many such voters see things...don't be a lib because they want to cut up children and kill beautiful babies and be gay and oh my God.)
 
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Questerr said:
It’s exactly the same thing. The government cannot violate a person’s bodily autonomy even after they are dead. The government cannot make you give up your organs after death unless you consented when you were alive.

Why do you think the government should have the power to force women to use their organs for other people after they die?
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Now this is a good point; in fact there are laws against messing with a corpse.

OTOH, if incapacitated permanently, the family does, or should have rights to the person's medical decisions. In Georgia's case, the state is saying, nope.

Lawsuit to come. Well, besides the misery of all these months beforehand.
 
Hatuey said:
This too you do not know. She could have chosen to go to a state where abortion is legal past 6 weeks at week 10, or 11, or she could have kept it.

This is the state making the choice to keep her alive, regardless of the fact that no choice was made.

Why is it your imaginary choice that counts? She is dead, keeping her body going to keep a fetus alive for an additional 11 weeks is gnarly stuff, but it is what you defend.

That mask is coming off.

🎭
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They aren't "keeping her alive." She officially died three months ago. The brain-dead body is an actual corpse.
 
Bonnot said:
abcnews.go.com

Brain-dead woman must carry fetus to birth because of abortion ban, family says

A hospital is using a breathing tube and other measures to keep a brain-dead Georgia woman's body functioning because she is pregnant
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

A hospital is using a breathing tube and other measures to keep a brain-dead Georgia woman's body functioning because she is pregnant
ATLANTA -- A pregnant woman in Georgia was declared brain-dead after a medical emergency and has been kept on life support for three months by doctors to allow enough time for the baby to be born and comply with Georgia’s strict anti-abortion law, family members say.

The GOP just views women as inccubators. Lets force a brain dead woman to give birth to a child that will grow up without a mother. Bang up job anti science religious extremists.

The GOP is all about forced birth, they're terrible people and extremists. Controlling someone's body like this even in their death is fascist as ****.
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Wait, so now we're complaining about not being able to kill a fetus inside of a woman who is dead?

I'm not sure if this is a battle worth fighting for the pro-abortion crowd.
 
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