Brain-dead woman must carry fetus to birth because of abortion ban, family says

[stealthycat]

I'll bet the man enjoys the sex too. Whats wrong with enjoying sex? There's nothing wrong with it.

show me one post I've said otherwise - I do not think you can

You're free to not do it then. Just as others are free to so if they choose.

and I am against killing 1 day old babies, 5 month old babies and 10 year old kids. They might be in poverty, their parents druggies, they might be the 6th child and the other 5 children have less because they're alive, the mom and dad might have to give up partying, school, other jobs, traveling, certain lifestyles .... all the excuses used to kill the unborn that I am against I also say killing the born babies is wrong too

why? they are VALUABLE
do you disagree ??? simple yes or no Gordy

 

[stealthycat]

Its not actually rare anymore.

the numbers have creeped up you're right

In the U.S., fathers account for roughly 20% of custodial parents. While mothers are still more likely to be the custodial parent, the percentage of fathers in this role has been steadily increasing. In 2018, 20% of custodial parents were fathers, compared to 16% in 1994.

 

[stealthycat]

Where's the hypocrisy?

you can say choice for the woman to have the baby or not ... can you say choice for the man to pay for the baby or not ?

For both men and women, they need to decide BEFORE they have sex if they dont want to risk the consequences of a pregnancy. Equal. The consequences differ because of biology. She cannot escape them. Fact. He may.

wrong - legally he is bound

RE: hypocrisy...explain this:

--did the woman force him to have sex with her? no​

--did he know that she has the choice re: abortion? yes​

--did he still choose to risk having sex with her?​

If yes, then why do they claim that women have power over men? Can men not control themselves and act in their own best interests? (Of course they can. So then why dont they?) Why shouldnt men face the consequences of their decision?

Men knowingly choose to hand their reproductive status over to women. So stop complaining about the system and acting as if it's all women's fault. Or crying that "it's so unfair!" Obviously it's not. Can men control their decisions or not?

again .... if the man doesn't want the kid be fair and equal and allow him to walk away without any consequence of the actions he took - will you agree to that ?

btw women want sex as much as men

 

[stealthycat]

A fertilized egg is a collection of living cells

can be - that's true

But those different stages matter.
Taking birth control which kills a fertilized egg is not the same as hitting an 84 year old over the head with a hammer.

and if you want to discuss that and make an argument for a fertilized egg being a human being go for it

No.

I don't think so either but you brought it up

You are tge one that makes the “ value of life claim” though you can’t explain it nor define it objectively.

same question I ask Gordy - is a 1 day old baby valuable and its life should be protected in our society? a simple yes or no

I don’t use “ value of life “ in the decision making. There are many lives involved.

really ? the 1 day old baby ... when do you think its ok for the mother to have it killed (as it relates to abortion) ?

No. There are too many variables to know.
The rich family may be in the middle of divorce and tge father may be taking off with another woman. Which leaves the woman with a baby and no resources

so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life

Maybe the rich woman is pregnant in the midst of addiction to drugs and or alcohol and

so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life

The rich woman has a physical difficulty that makes her pregnancy dangerous and can kill her. Or maybe the issue with the embryo is that it could make her sterile so she can’t have any future children.

so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life



if you want to do like Sanger/Nazi's and create a society that kills unborn babies based on things like wealth, skin color, wrong gender/hair color, drug or alcohol involved, someone is being divorced, gets in the way or partying or schooling etc etc ............ man we could all justify killing unborn babies and even after they're born for the same reasons right ?

that's what you'd like to see ?

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

having money doesn't make life less valuable and there is no woman who doesn't know she can give the baby up for adoption in the USA


I think you know - there would be remorse. A person cannot outrun the things they've done unless they're serial killer-ish



so those things would have made the baby less valuable than a baby from a wealthy family who wanted it? back to the "kill those poor babies" Sanger/Nazi thing again ?



Now THAT is a solid question. No. Neither the mom, the father nor both should decide to have an unborn baby killed. No


true - the baby could have died naturally and pregnancy ended. We'll never know, she had it killed instead


thank you for giving them life

again ... you are wanting to assign importance/value of life differently to each baby in the womb because of their mothers situation/wealth ??



it doesn't - and never should abortion be allowed (though to ban 98% of abortions I would make concessions, some pro-life people would not)


she had 4 children

one she had killed, the other two she gave life

I'm very sorry for her to carry that now

You keep trying to bring "value" into the financial argument when I never said one fetus has more intrinsic value than the next; based on the parents' finances or otherwise.

If every fetus has value then where do you suppose God kills 40% of them? And does so in Christian communities, other religions, to the faithful and not, to the young and not so young, all.around the world. Honest question.

 

[Lursa]

you need to really really answer that yourself Gordy ... you don't believe human life has any value and I'm sorry for you on that. I can't help you, I'm sorry

Can you quote where he wrote that human life has no value? If not, why do you keep posting falsehoods?

We've discussed morality and your lack of credibility...so your claim here about Gordy is doubtful at best.

 

[Lursa]

you can say choice for the woman to have the baby or not ... can you say choice for the man to pay for the baby or not ?

Their consequences are different...what part of that dont you understand?

The time to choose to avoid consequences is the same for BOTH: before they have sex. Yes or no?

Can the man and the woman avoid consequences of a pregnancy if they dont have sex? Yes...so there's your answer.

wrong - legally he is bound

To have sex with her? I dont think so.

If he chooses to knowingly risk a pregnancy and having to pay child support...then...yup. If he chooses that risk...why shouldnt he be held accountable for that choice?

again .... if the man doesn't want the kid be fair and equal and allow him to walk away without any consequence of the actions he took - will you agree to that ?

Answer the questions below , directly, before asking me more questions.

RE: hypocrisy...explain this:

--did the woman force him to have sex with her? no
--did he know that she has the choice re: abortion? yes
--did he still choose to risk having sex with her?

If yes, then why do they claim that women have power over men? Can men not control themselves and act in their own best interests? (Of course they can. So then why dont they?) Why shouldnt men face the consequences of their decision?

Men knowingly choose to hand their reproductive status over to women. So stop complaining about the system and acting as if it's all women's fault. Or crying that "it's so unfair!" Obviously it's not. Can men control their decisions or not?

Why is the man entitled to walk away without consequences? Women cant, we never have been. How is that equal?

btw women want sex as much as men

We sure do. What's your point?

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

can be - that's true


and if you want to discuss that and make an argument for a fertilized egg being a human being go for it


I don't think so either but you brought it up


same question I ask Gordy - is a 1 day old baby valuable and its life should be protected in our society? a simple yes or no




really ? the 1 day old baby ... when do you think its ok for the mother to have it killed (as it relates to abortion) ?


so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life


so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life



so? the baby's life is just as important as any other baby's life



if you want to do like Sanger/Nazi's and create a society that kills unborn babies based on things like wealth, skin color, wrong gender/hair color, drug or alcohol involved, someone is being divorced, gets in the way or partying or schooling etc etc ............ man we could all justify killing unborn babies and even after they're born for the same reasons right ?

that's what you'd like to see ?

Do you honest to god think women are having abortions because they're worried their baby might not have the right hair color?

 

[TamleeB]

They can be held responsible as the guardians of Chance. This is pregnancy related and now the certainly will be responsible for Chance’s bill even if he dies

It could depend on what kind of “guardianship” the grandmother agreed to (temporary, limited or full). At this point there are many unanswered questions, including what medical insurance the Mother had, and if the biological Father has any responsibility. The reality is Chance is here. And there should not be a monetary price put on his life. For some odd reason, that seems to of the utmost importance to some.

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

It could depend on what kind of “guardianship” the grandmother agreed to (temporary, limited or full). At this point there are many unanswered questions, including what medical insurance the Mother had, and if the biological Father has any responsibility. The reality is Chance is here. And there should not be a monetary price put on his life. For some odd reason, that seems to of the utmost importance to some.

Not being able to support a child and looking forward to the child and mother suffering and struggling is one major reason for choosing abortion, yes.

 

[stealthycat]

You keep trying to bring "value" into the financial argument when I never said one fetus has more intrinsic value than the next; based on the parents' finances or otherwise.

you keep bringing it up - can we agree to NEVER mention again then a woman's financial status?

If every fetus has value then where do you suppose God kills 40% of them? And does so in Christian communities, other religions, to the faithful and not, to the young and not so young, all.around the world. Honest question.

you'd have to ask those questions to God or people who want to discuss God & abortion. That's not me. Religion doesn't dictate when a human life is valuable. do you agree ?

 

[stealthycat]

Can you quote where he wrote that human life has no value? If not, why do you keep posting falsehoods?

We've discussed morality and your lack of credibility...so your claim here about Gordy is doubtful at best.

Gordy won't answer yes or no - there is only one reason why he don't answer and we all know what it is.

All he has to say is answer the question " a 1 day old baby has value and should be protected " - YES

simple - not answering it is an answer too isn't it ?



do you think a 1 day old baby has value and should be protected ? Lursa do you ?

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

You keep trying to bring "value" into the financial argument when I never said one fetus has more intrinsic value than the next; based on the parents' finances or otherwise.

If every fetus has value then where do you suppose God kills 40% of them? And does so in Christian communities, other religions, to the faithful and not, to the young and not so young, all.around the world. Honest question.

Sorry, should read "why," not "where" ^

 

[Lursa]

Gordy won't answer yes or no - there is only one reason why he don't answer and we all know what it is.

See? You lie believing you know what he thinks

Where is your answer to what's the value?

.All he has to say is answer the question " a 1 day old baby has value and should be protected " - YES

simple - not answering it is an answer too isn't it ?



do you think a 1 day old baby has value and should be protected ? Lursa do you ?

I've answered it many times in this thread...again, why do you lie? See? You lie constantly. Wow. You dont value honesty, that is clear in your posts.

 

[stealthycat]

Their consequences are different...what part of that dont you understand?

of course - everyone has different circumstances AND consequences

that doesn't make one baby more valuable than another

The time to choose to avoid consequences is the same for BOTH: before they have sex. Yes or no?

abstinence stops unwanted pregnancy right
most often if the woman is on birth control AND the man uses a condom, I'd say that's 99.99% effective wouldn't you ?

so yes, the choices to have sex is on them

Can the man and the woman avoid consequences of a pregnancy if they dont have sex? Yes...so there's your answer.

sure

To have sex with her? I dont think so.

no to pay for the baby financially (during pregnancy and after birth)

If he chooses to knowingly risk a pregnancy and having to pay child support...then...yup. If he chooses that risk...why shouldnt he be held accountable for that choice?

I've always advocated for the laws to be as they are AND even held more accountable and stronger than what they are for him to financially be liable. Absolutely

Answer the questions below , directly, before asking me more questions.

Why is the man entitled to walk away without consequences? Women cant, we never have been. How is that equal?

he cannot - every state has laws to bind him financially don't they ?

We sure do. What's your point?

100 % responsibility for both

 

[stealthycat]

Do you honest to god think women are having abortions because they're worried their baby might not have the right hair color?

no but IF they wanted to - would you support that ?

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

you keep bringing it up - can we agree to NEVER mention again then a woman's financial status?

No.we can not, because it can be a major factor in whether a woman chooses to abort.

Some women look to the future and see misery for their lives and their child as they constantly struggle, and choose to abort.

That doesn't mean they think a somehow wealthier cat s has more value than a poor one.

you'd have to ask those questions to God or people who want to discuss God & abortion. That's not me. Religion doesn't dictate when a human life is valuable. do you agree ?

Well, you make guesses about strangers you have even met, stating these as actual fact.

So why not God? Let's hear it. Why do you suppose God kill nearly half of fetuses, if every last few has value?

 

[stealthycat]

See? You lie believing you know what he thinks
Where is your answer to what's the value?

IF the baby has value day 1 after being born as a living human life, all I have to so is show its the same living human life before birth and the same value extends - he knows that. I think you know that too

I've answered it many times in this thread...again, why do you lie? See? You lie constantly. Wow. You dont value honesty, that is clear in your posts.

humor me - yes you think a 1 day old has value, right ?

because I think you do - and IF you do ?

then you have to know that 1 day before birth its literally the SAME baby - not born, but everything is the same. You'd have to agree I think on that, almost everyone does

back it up 1 more day, 1 more week ............. same baby, different level of development but HAS to be alive/living or the pregnancy wouldn't exists, right ?


you see clearly where I'm going and why it destroys the pro-abortion argument UNLESS .... unless the pro-abortion person doesn't value human life at all. Then, its easy to say kill it before its born. Heck, kill it after, its not really of any value anyway. THAT is what a few people believe and they don't say it in as many words but their posts I think highly indicate it and when directly asked they won't answer and its for a reason.

but for most of us we know the a 10 year old kid is valuable and its the same kid at 10, or 4 years old or 2 weeks old or 1 day old .... or 1 day before birth. Same living human person

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

no but IF they wanted to - would you support that ?

WTF? What does that have to do with the very practical reasons women choose to abort?

Do you think they're all getting a genetic analysis done and once they find out the baby won't have blue eyes, they schedule an abortion?

What about a woman in dire circumstances of one form or another who chosen to abort the fetus, and the fetus's genetic code says it will have blue eyes and be tall? Do you really think she's going to change her mind because ZOMG blue eyes?

Could this be the reason God kill nearly half of all embryos and fetuses? He doesn't like what color they'd be? Is that the logical inference? Since you seem to think women abort because they're not going to have a Wunder child.

I mean what exactly are you trying to infer here about choice?

God kills millions upon millions of fetuses every year. Why, if every fetus "has value"?

 

[Lursa]

of course - everyone has different circumstances AND consequences

that doesn't make one baby more valuable than another

Nobody said anything about value here. Where is your answer to the question you cut out?

Their consequences are different...what part of that dont you understand?

The time to choose to avoid consequences is the same for BOTH: before they have sex. Yes or no?​

Can the man and the woman avoid consequences of a pregnancy if they dont have sex? Yes...so there's your answer.

abstinence stops unwanted pregnancy right
most often if the woman is on birth control AND the man uses a condom, I'd say that's 99.99% effective wouldn't you ?

Irrelevant diversion

so yes, the choices to have sex is on them

Good and so then both should be held accountable for the consequences of taking that risk. Right? Yes or no?

no to pay for the baby financially (during pregnancy and after birth)

Why did you cut this question out? Please answer it.

If he chooses to knowingly risk a pregnancy and having to pay child support...then...yup. If he chooses that risk...why shouldnt he be held accountable for that choice?

I've always advocated for the laws to be as they are AND even held more accountable and stronger than what they are for him to financially be liable. Absolutely

You just wrote no, he shouldnt have to above. Make up your mind.

he cannot - every state has laws to bind him financially don't they ?

Yes I know. So then why did you write this?

" if the man doesn't want the kid be fair and equal and allow him to walk away without any consequence of the actions he took"​

If he chooses to knowingly risk a pregnancy and having to pay child support...then...yup. If he chooses that risk...why shouldnt he be held accountable for that choice?

And where are your answers to this:

RE: hypocrisy...explain this:​

--did the woman force him to have sex with her? no​

--did he know that she has the choice re: abortion? yes​

--did he still choose to risk having sex with her?​

​

If yes, then why do they claim that women have power over men? Can men not control themselves and act in their own best interests? (Of course they can. So then why dont they?) Why shouldnt men face the consequences of their decision?​

​

Men knowingly choose to hand their reproductive status over to women. So stop complaining about the system and acting as if it's all women's fault. Or crying that "it's so unfair!" Obviously it's not. Can men control their decisions or not?​

100 % responsibility for both

If there is a chlid, there is, by law, equal responsibility by both.

 

[BirdinHand]

I'm against women having their unborn babies killed yes

Too bad.

I had an abortion. I don’t regret that choice. And I don’t care if you don’t like it

It was my body, my life and my choice

No one else’s.

 

[Lursa]

IF the baby has value day 1 after being born as a living human life, all I have to so is show its the same living human life before birth and the same value extends - he knows that. I think you know that too



humor me - yes you think a 1 day old has value, right ?

because I think you do - and IF you do ?

then you have to know that 1 day before birth its literally the SAME baby - not born, but everything is the same. You'd have to agree I think on that, almost everyone does

back it up 1 more day, 1 more week ............. same baby, different level of development but HAS to be alive/living or the pregnancy wouldn't exists, right ?


you see clearly where I'm going and why it destroys the pro-abortion argument UNLESS .... unless the pro-abortion person doesn't value human life at all. Then, its easy to say kill it before its born. Heck, kill it after, its not really of any value anyway. THAT is what a few people believe and they don't say it in as many words but their posts I think highly indicate it and when directly asked they won't answer and its for a reason.

but for most of us we know the a 10 year old kid is valuable and its the same kid at 10, or 4 years old or 2 weeks old or 1 day old .... or 1 day before birth. Same living human person

Not a chance. All you do is ask over and over, lying as if you havent been answered. And you have been, many times. That is dishonest and in bad faith.

Now where are my answers to this? See the red question marks? Please address each with a direct, relevant answer.

RE: hypocrisy...explain this:
--did the woman force him to have sex with her? no
--did he know that she has the choice re: abortion? yes
--did he still choose to risk having sex with her?

If yes, then why do they claim that women have power over men? Can men not control themselves and act in their own best interests? (Of course they can. So then why dont they?) Why shouldnt men face the consequences of their decision?

Men knowingly choose to hand their reproductive status over to women. So stop complaining about the system and acting as if it's all women's fault. Or crying that "it's so unfair!" Obviously it's not. Can men control their decisions or not?

 

[Lursa]

if the man doesn't want the kid be fair and equal and allow him to walk away without any consequence of the actions he took

Do you believe that men should be entitled to sex without consequences? Yes or no?

You bring up fair and equal. Women have NEVER been able to have sex without consequences...not in the past, and not now. So obviously it's not fair and equal...men get to to walk away a lot of the time...if she miscarries, dies, or aborts.

Does that sound "fair and equal"?

 

[TamleeB]

Not being able to support a child and looking forward to the child and mother suffering and struggling is one major reason for choosing abortion, yes.

Well….it appears that Adrianna very much planned to have Chance. I have seen nothing mentioning that she pursued an abortion. I am open to you presenting evidence that she wanted to abort Chance.

 

[Gordy327]

show me one post I've said otherwise - I do not think you can

I never said you said otherwise. I simply made a statement.

and I am against killing 1 day old babies, 5 month old babies and 10 year old kids. They might be in poverty, their parents druggies, they might be the 6th child and the other 5 children have less because they're alive, the mom and dad might have to give up partying, school, other jobs, traveling, certain lifestyles .... all the excuses used to kill the unborn that I am against I also say killing the born babies is wrong too

why? they are VALUABLE
do you disagree ??? simple yes or no Gordy

As i said, you are free not to do so. Others may choose differently for themselves. And whats their value?

Gordy won't answer yes or no - there is only one reason why he don't answer and we all know what it is.

All he has to say is answer the question " a 1 day old baby has value and should be protected " - YES

simple - not answering it is an answer too isn't it ?

I noticed you still haven't answered what the value is. Why dont you answer the question first before asking your own!

no but IF they wanted to - would you support that ?

Yes! Abortion is the woman's choice and no one else's.

IF the baby has value day 1 after being born as a living human life, all I have to so is show its the same living human life before birth and the same value extends - he knows that. I think you know that

All YOU have to do is quantify or explain this value.
The value of a new car off the assembly line does not extend that value to the parts on the assembly line.