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Border wall and border security confusion

Honorable respectful marke, I appreciate you sharing. At least you are venting which releases tension. I usually don't get involved in whataboutism narratives. They are about the past. I don't doubt that much of what Trump has to say that isn't factually true he believes is true.

Almost any bare statement can be picked apart for criticism. That is what hateful democrats do. They scour every statement Trump makes to find ways to turn it into a lie based on deliberate misinterpretation and deceit.
 
Is it too much for Trump to define exactly what he wants and why?

It started as a concrete wall all across the southern border that Mexico would pay for. Then he came to understand there were natural barriers and altered his dialog. Then he goes back and forth on the concrete. Then he wavers on who is paying for it. Now apparently Mexico would pay for it through other manipulations.


Get the border security provisions now. Stop the shutdown. Then he can come back when he knows exactly what we need because he has had experts adequately research what is needed. Because right now the wall seems more like a vanity project because he has not adequate investigated or articulated in a consistent matter what he wants.

I agree with all of that. But none of it addressed what you stated in your OP that the Democratic Party is for Border Security. That the Democratic Party's actions, not rhetoric or words, speak more for that party being for open borders. If not, withdraw the welcoming mat, do away with sanctuary cities, drop the abolish ICE portion of the Democratic Platform, enforce existing laws. Stop rewarding those immigrants who arrive here illegally.

The Wall is irrelevant to the above. As I stated there are more efficient, effective and less costly ways
 
Almost any bare statement can be picked apart for criticism. That is what hateful democrats do. They scour every statement Trump makes to find ways to turn it into a lie based on deliberate misinterpretation and deceit.

Dude, he frequently lies without any need to be a lie of technicality or "picked apart".
 
What specifically is the left lying about in regards to boarder security?

I can repeatedly point to Trump and posters on this board lying and saying that Dems do not want boarder security. I could find examples very quickly...could you find examples of dems lying about the current boarder security/wall brouhaha?

I am all for both sides toning down the rhetoric...but hell....one side has ample evidence of lying about this issue.

In 2013 Chuck Schumer sponsored a border security bill in Congress. He favored erecting pedestrian barriers then and monitoring the effectiveness of those barriers by analyzing the reduction in the numbers of illegal crossings. What has changed in the interim? Trump got elected on the promise to secure our borders so now Schumer is opposed to a border wall or fence to stop illegal crossings Go figger. Schumer is a political hack first and American second.
 
He regularly changes his mind on what the wall means or is. That has been over the past 3 or 4 months.

Negotiating...remember?

Much of the confusion comes from what he tweets then says in when questioned. He agrees to things then retracts when pushed by pundits.

As I said...don't rely on the media. That goes double for the pundits.

And frankly, once he started the lies about dems not wanting any boarder security.....why do you think they would actively listen to other things he had to say? This is a significant lie (er uh misrepresentation)

They don't want any border security. That's simply a fact born out by their actions and inactions. But it's not only the Dems. The Reps don't want border security either. Border security threatens the desires of the Congressional Elite's donors. If any of them wanted border security, we would have had a completely secure border decades ago. We would have employers not daring to employ illegal aliens. We would have illegal aliens being unable to use public services, including schools, roads, hospitals, etc. Instead, we have both Reps and Dems, during every new administration, pushing amnesty.

So no...Congress won't, and hasn't, listen to anything Trump has to say when he talks about border security.

Like I said. Fund boarder security - things that will in real time help secure the boarders and end the shutdown. Then if he can figure out exactly what he wants based on expert recommendations. Figure out a budget and where the money will REALLY come from. If it will take 50 billion, where in the budget will it come from - will it be a new tax or will it be syphoning off of social security or other programs.

Chuck and Nancy won't do it. They won't fund border security. They don't care about the budget...there hasn't been a budget in a decade. If they call for new taxes, it won't go for border security. It'll go for their pet projects.

Most dems can see more additional fencing and shoring up existing barriers that are failing. They support a multitude of different high tech options.

You aren't talking about "most Congressional Dems". They won't spend money on any of that. But even if they would, it's not enough. The illegal aliens...the human smugglers...the drug dealers...the terrorists...the murderers...(the list goes on)…will just go around it.

We need a wall.
 
Dude...Trump is not a liar...he is the consummate liar. I think many if not most politicians lie or at least exaggerate the truth...but Trump is in a lying league of his own.

This is why folks call him a liar......

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

'Don't you ignorant people worry, me and my people are going to track down the movie maker behind the bloodbath in Benghazi and persecute him to the fullest extent of the law and beyond. And rest assured, we will not allow anyone to question eyewitness survivors from the Benghazi attack until we have turned over every stone in our ongoing extensive decades long investigation.' Jackass SOS.
 
Don't you love images of black and white racists hugging each other, even if it does not accurately reflect how each feels toward the other?
Man, they are deeeep inside your noggin.
 
I agree with all of that. But none of it addressed what you stated in your OP that the Democratic Party is for Border Security. That the Democratic Party's actions, not rhetoric or words, speak more for that party being for open borders. If not, withdraw the welcoming mat, do away with sanctuary cities, drop the abolish ICE portion of the Democratic Platform, enforce existing laws. Stop rewarding those immigrants who arrive here illegally.

The Wall is irrelevant to the above. As I stated there are more efficient, effective and less costly ways

I have gone through the Dem Platform...can you show me the "drop ice" portion. When I search for Dem party platform and ICE all I get is tweets and newsmax . I do understand that there are some Dems that want ICE gone, but is it part of the platform? No doubt I would love to see many things changed, but not abolished.

https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/
 
Negotiating...remember?



As I said...don't rely on the media. That goes double for the pundits.



They don't want any border security. That's simply a fact born out by their actions and inactions. But it's not only the Dems. The Reps don't want border security either. Border security threatens the desires of the Congressional Elite's donors. If any of them wanted border security, we would have had a completely secure border decades ago. We would have employers not daring to employ illegal aliens. We would have illegal aliens being unable to use public services, including schools, roads, hospitals, etc. Instead, we have both Reps and Dems, during every new administration, pushing amnesty.

So no...Congress won't, and hasn't, listen to anything Trump has to say when he talks about border security.



Chuck and Nancy won't do it. They won't fund border security. They don't care about the budget...there hasn't been a budget in a decade. If they call for new taxes, it won't go for border security. It'll go for their pet projects.



You aren't talking about "most Congressional Dems". They won't spend money on any of that. But even if they would, it's not enough. The illegal aliens...the human smugglers...the drug dealers...the terrorists...the murderers...(the list goes on)…will just go around it.

We need a wall.

Who is he negotiating with, himself? How can they negotiate with a person who does not know what he wants from minute to minute? BTW, they all had negotiated an agreement until Coulter and Limbaugh tore him a new one.
 
'Don't you ignorant people worry, me and my people are going to track down the movie maker behind the bloodbath in Benghazi and persecute him to the fullest extent of the law and beyond. And rest assured, we will not allow anyone to question eyewitness survivors from the Benghazi attack until we have turned over every stone in our ongoing extensive decades long investigation.' Jackass SOS.

And we are back to Benghazi. What’s next, Hillary’s emails?
 
Who is he negotiating with, himself?

Good question, isn't it?

It's hard to negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate...as the Dems are doing...but he has to try.

That's more than your "Dems who want border security" are doing. They aren't trying. They are only opposing.
 
I have gone through the Dem Platform...can you show me the "drop ice" portion. When I search for Dem party platform and ICE all I get is tweets and newsmax . I do understand that there are some Dems that want ICE gone, but is it part of the platform? No doubt I would love to see many things changed, but not abolished.

https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

You could be correct. But there are plenty of Democratic elected officials call for ICE's abolition. What about sanctuary cities, basically a welcome mat and encouragement for folks to enter this country illegally? Just get to a sanctuary city or perhaps state in California's case, you're home free. It's very hard with all the attention sanctuary cities get to reconcile the Democratic Party being for a secure border. Sanctuary cities encourages those to ignore our immigration laws and the legal route into this country.

I also don't think we can have the so called immigration reform without the willingness of both political parties to enforce the laws already on the books.
 
I have gone through the Dem Platform...can you show me the "drop ice" portion. When I search for Dem party platform and ICE all I get is tweets and newsmax . I do understand that there are some Dems that want ICE gone, but is it part of the platform? No doubt I would love to see many things changed, but not abolished.

https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

Since when has a Party Platform mattered? It's nothing more than BS to satisfy the rank and file. The politician's actions are what counts.
 
Most people in most of the states VOTED FOR TRUMP (30 of them), and they also just ADDED GOP SEATS to the SENATE in A FIRST TERM MIDTERM....so I'd say that, in addition to being committed to a CONSTITUTIONAL USSC , Americans are committed to the Trump Agenda , indeed.

Spin it however you like, Trump hasn't had the support of a majority since the GOP nominated his lyin' ass. And he hasn't got one now. Hell, he can't even muster up a majority of Republicans, never mind a majority of Americans.
 
Since when has a Party Platform mattered? It's nothing more than BS to satisfy the rank and file. The politician's actions are what counts.

And inactions. If that wall was so bloody important the Republicans would have funded it by now. That they didn't means either they didn't want to or didn't know how.
Looks more and more like the Republcans need the Democrats to do the actual governing.
 
Dude, he frequently lies without any need to be a lie of technicality or "picked apart".

Of course lefties think Trump lies and democrats don't. That is they way they are. We get used to it after a while.
 
This is what is confusing to me.

Trump talks about wanting a concrete wall across the border to be paid for by Mexico.

Since then he has gone back and forth about the meaning of the wall and border security. He wants billions, but cannot definitively say what this wall is.

Then he lies and makes his followers believe Dems want no border security.

Here us what I want. A well thought out multifactorial plan on border security. If he believes the wall is integral to this plan, why.

Back up with facts.

After deciding what your border security plan is....if a wall is needed...know in advance it is concrete vs slats vs fencing...and for how much of the border. You should have facts to back this up. Also, what about other border security measures....facts based on what has been helpful with reasonable projections.

And last but not least, if you want democrats to listen....stop lying. Their idea of border security may be different than yours, but all dems I know in real life want secure borders.

There's no "CONFUSION"...just a bunch of LYING, HYPOCRITE, DEMOCRATS.

Dems walls at million dollar homes.jpg


illegals wall dems would build.jpg
 
Almost any bare statement can be picked apart for criticism. That is what hateful democrats do. They scour every statement Trump makes to find ways to turn it into a lie based on deliberate misinterpretation and deceit.

Yeah, I can imagine how frustrated you must be. The next time I see the media or a Democrat reporting one of Trumps gems I will get back to you so you can instruct me how hateful and deceitful it was.
 
In 2013 Chuck Schumer sponsored a border security bill in Congress. He favored erecting pedestrian barriers then and monitoring the effectiveness of those barriers by analyzing the reduction in the numbers of illegal crossings. What has changed in the interim? Trump got elected on the promise to secure our borders so now Schumer is opposed to a border wall or fence to stop illegal crossings Go figger. Schumer is a political hack first and American second.

Schumer’s proposal as you describe it seems to have had an element of logic to it.
 
Gotta love it. First it was Mexicans that are going to rape us, next it was Middle Easterners within the caravan. Now Homeland Security says there were 3000 people stopped due to “terrorist travel patterns.”

More Orwellian by the day.
 
And inactions. If that wall was so bloody important the Republicans would have funded it by now. That they didn't means either they didn't want to or didn't know how.
Looks more and more like the Republcans need the Democrats to do the actual governing.

I've already said that neither Congressional Democrats nor Congressional Republicans want a wall. They don't want border security, either. None of that is what those Congress puke's donors want, so it's not going to happen.

What they all want is amnesty.
 
Of course lefties think Trump lies and democrats don't. That is they way they are. We get used to it after a while.

Here you go. The first thing that came to my attention WSJ editorial shreds Trump's Afghanistan claims this isn't even from a Democrat or the "Liberal media". Its from Rupert Murdock's Right wing editorial board calling out Trump on his Afghanistan claims. This isn't isolated Trump does this kind of thing over and over. I have no doubt Trump thought he hit the nail on the head. How do you spin this kind of thing? Probably whataboutism.
 
Schumer’s proposal as you describe it seems to have had an element of logic to it.

The weasel has since flipped. He now has no interest in erecting a pedestrian barrier to keep illegals out and has no interest in keeping a close eye on how effective different methods being used are in eliminating illegal crossings. Go figger like a democrat.
 
Here you go. The first thing that came to my attention WSJ editorial shreds Trump's Afghanistan claims this isn't even from a Democrat or the "Liberal media". Its from Rupert Murdock's Right wing editorial board calling out Trump on his Afghanistan claims. This isn't isolated Trump does this kind of thing over and over. I have no doubt Trump thought he hit the nail on the head. How do you spin this kind of thing? Probably whataboutism.

Trump hate derangement syndrome is a very bad sickness.
 
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