Blog Your Current Game

[jmotivator]

So, they rolled out a patch this weekend for Borderlands 3 that nerfed the stealth build of FL4K in a major way, and buffed the Operative. The outcome of it was that the FL4K hunter build just became the most powerful end game build. I don't know if it increased interest in the Operative, but I probably wouldn't see that in end-game play until people leveled them up.

Either way, it seems like FL4K is just light years ahead of the other classes. With a crit build (stealth of hunter) FL4K players are still burning down end-game level bosses in a matter of seconds. They will have to nerf FL4K to the point of changing his whole character in order to balance him. It's no so much that his skills are inherently over powered, there are just item prefixes that mesh so well with his skill set that he is absurdly powerful. The problem there is you can't nerf the prefixes to fix FL4K because it would just lower the ability of all builds and classes that use those prefixes in the process... so FL4K would need to change dramatically.

But this is the way of all Min/Max endgames. There will always be the one easy button class/build and then a bunch of fun-to-try builds.

It's a blessing and a curse. You can create an interesting weapon randomizer system that generates billions of possible weapons and create thousands of unique weapons, but there will always be a best weapon, and that is all anyone playing the endgame grind will ever want or play for.

I think in the end they will need to push all skill trees for FL4K to being pet dependent. His skills should feed of the pet more directly, allowing a better control of what Fl4K is capable of in itemization. As it is, most end-game FL4K builds don't even summon a pet because they aren't necessary and just get in the way of gathering items.

Anyway, it is a very fun game, I enjoy it a lot, but I think the end game is was too easy right now as FL4K.

They are planning on introducing Raid bosses in the near future which will be interesting... they will need to do something about the imbalance or every raid fight will be a bunch of FL4K players .. or mostly FL4K players carrying everyone else.

 

[ecofarm]

Hey! Maliwan has always been around! When you absolutely positively need to light someone on fire!

Yeah, I realized that a couple of days ago. It's just been so long since I played Borderlands.

I've a friend returning from vacation but, until then, I'm bored. Multiplayer sounds good, but there's no lobby or other way for players to contact each other. I'm not sure when multiple people is necessary or even beneficial (Proving Grounds, I suppose), but I wouldn't mind checking it out. Feel free to PM me (anyone) to talk Borderlands 3 (ps4).

 

[jmotivator]

I've a friend returning from vacation but, until then, I'm bored. Multiplayer sounds good, but there's no lobby or other way for players to contact each other. I'm not sure when multiple people is necessary or even beneficial (Proving Grounds, I suppose), but I wouldn't mind checking it out. Feel free to PM me (anyone) to talk Borderlands 3 (ps4).

How does PS4 normally do it? I can only imagine how a Borderlands 3 PUG would play out...

 

[PoS]

So, they rolled out a patch this weekend for Borderlands 3 that nerfed the stealth build of FL4K in a major way, and buffed the Operative. The outcome of it was that the FL4K hunter build just became the most powerful end game build. I don't know if it increased interest in the Operative, but I probably wouldn't see that in end-game play until people leveled them up.

Either way, it seems like FL4K is just light years ahead of the other classes. With a crit build (stealth of hunter) FL4K players are still burning down end-game level bosses in a matter of seconds. They will have to nerf FL4K to the point of changing his whole character in order to balance him. It's no so much that his skills are inherently over powered, there are just item prefixes that mesh so well with his skill set that he is absurdly powerful. The problem there is you can't nerf the prefixes to fix FL4K because it would just lower the ability of all builds and classes that use those prefixes in the process... so FL4K would need to change dramatically.

But this is the way of all Min/Max endgames. There will always be the one easy button class/build and then a bunch of fun-to-try builds.

It's a blessing and a curse. You can create an interesting weapon randomizer system that generates billions of possible weapons and create thousands of unique weapons, but there will always be a best weapon, and that is all anyone playing the endgame grind will ever want or play for.

I think in the end they will need to push all skill trees for FL4K to being pet dependent. His skills should feed of the pet more directly, allowing a better control of what Fl4K is capable of in itemization. As it is, most end-game FL4K builds don't even summon a pet because they aren't necessary and just get in the way of gathering items.

Anyway, it is a very fun game, I enjoy it a lot, but I think the end game is was too easy right now as FL4K.

They are planning on introducing Raid bosses in the near future which will be interesting... they will need to do something about the imbalance or every raid fight will be a bunch of FL4K players .. or mostly FL4K players carrying everyone else.

I always play the sniper builds, so I am to assume that this FL4K is the sniper in this game?

 

[ecofarm]

How does PS4 normally do it? I can only imagine how a Borderlands 3 PUG would play out...

That's Greek to me.

 

[jmotivator]

I always play the sniper builds, so I am to assume that this FL4K is the sniper in this game?

Well, yes and no. There really isn't a weapon type tied to any of the classes like previous games. There aren't "+% Damage to Sniper Rifle" skills that I have seen.

But I guess in theory FL4K is best suited for a sniper rifle when he uses his +1 bullet on Crit build, since it extends the effective magazine size significantly.

But Zane (Operative) have more traditional Snipery skills.

 

[jmotivator]

That's Greek to me.

"PUG" stands for "Pick-Up Group". Shorthand for team games played with randomly grouped people.

I'm wondering how Borderlands 3 would play when you are playing with people you don't know. I am thinking of my limited experience playing pick-up groups in Diablo 3 where there is always one player who has maxed their character out in speed and damage such that my whole game was spent walking through graveyards of enemies they killed before I could get there. :lol:

 

[ecofarm]

"PUG" stands for "Pick-Up Group". Shorthand for team games played with randomly grouped people.

I'm wondering how Borderlands 3 would play when you are playing with people you don't know. I am thinking of my limited experience playing pick-up groups in Diablo 3 where there is always one player who has maxed their character out in speed and damage such that my whole game was spent walking through graveyards of enemies they killed before I could get there. :lol:

The game has two coop modes. Cooperation where everything is balanced and everyone gets their own loot, and coopetition where no balance and loot is first come first got it.

 

[jmotivator]

The game has two coop modes. Cooperation where everything is balanced and everyone gets their own loot, and coopetition where no balance and loot is first come first got it.

I can't imagine how anyone would find coopetition fun. I mean, heck, if you play cooperation mode you get more loot to trade.

 

[ecofarm]

I can't imagine how anyone would find coopetition fun. I mean, heck, if you play cooperation mode you get more loot to trade.

I've no idea the mechanics of it.

 

[ecofarm]

So, they rolled out a patch this weekend for Borderlands 3 that nerfed the stealth build of FL4K in a major way, and buffed the Operative. The outcome of it was that the FL4K hunter build just became the most powerful end game build. I don't know if it increased interest in the Operative, but I probably wouldn't see that in end-game play until people leveled them up.

Either way, it seems like FL4K is just light years ahead of the other classes. With a crit build (stealth of hunter) FL4K players are still burning down end-game level bosses in a matter of seconds. They will have to nerf FL4K to the point of changing his whole character in order to balance him. It's no so much that his skills are inherently over powered, there are just item prefixes that mesh so well with his skill set that he is absurdly powerful. The problem there is you can't nerf the prefixes to fix FL4K because it would just lower the ability of all builds and classes that use those prefixes in the process... so FL4K would need to change dramatically.

But this is the way of all Min/Max endgames. There will always be the one easy button class/build and then a bunch of fun-to-try builds.

It's a blessing and a curse. You can create an interesting weapon randomizer system that generates billions of possible weapons and create thousands of unique weapons, but there will always be a best weapon, and that is all anyone playing the endgame grind will ever want or play for.

I think in the end they will need to push all skill trees for FL4K to being pet dependent. His skills should feed of the pet more directly, allowing a better control of what Fl4K is capable of in itemization. As it is, most end-game FL4K builds don't even summon a pet because they aren't necessary and just get in the way of gathering items.

Anyway, it is a very fun game, I enjoy it a lot, but I think the end game is was too easy right now as FL4K.

They are planning on introducing Raid bosses in the near future which will be interesting... they will need to do something about the imbalance or every raid fight will be a bunch of FL4K players .. or mostly FL4K players carrying everyone else.

Here's why I don't believe that matters:

1. Fane can solo every boss at Mayhem 3. Sure, it might take him a little longer (if the player doesn't spam Tediore mirv homing reloads of the appropriate element), but at the end of the day both players' inventories are full of legendaries.

2. Walking down the street in Lectra yields legendaries (lots of them).

In sum,

3. Before long, everyone's inventory and bank is full of legendaries.

Maybe someone's gotta cheese Ball. I say, "that's okay, cheese it." Eventually, a strat, tactic or combo (or weapon) makes the boss directly doable.

Ultimately, when in doubt, spam Ted radiation mirv homing reloads (shoot once, reload; repeat). That's guaranteed to eliminate everything. Some bosses just flat go down. It locks them in a stun, keep rhythm, they're down in under a minute.

It's one of those games that one must limit oneself. There are a million ways to press the win button.

I always play the sniper builds, so I am to assume that this FL4K is the sniper in this game?

Snipe opportunities are rare. Enemies close range quickly and return fire effectively at any range. It's mostly mid to close range popping in and out of cover. Some shotguns have effective ranges that might as well be the end of the map; the need to go to sniper rifle occurs are ranges that almost never occur and might as well be dealt with via rocket launcher.

Unlike some games, this one allows the player to power over even bosses. There's no need, and it's rarely appropriate, to snipe. Into the fray, faith in the code, you'll win.

Funnily, the best sniper rifles behave like other weapons. One could argue the best assault rifle and the best shotgun in the game are both sniper rifles (Lyuda and Firestorm, respectively).

 

[jmotivator]

Here's why I don't believe that matters:

1. Fane can solo every boss at Mayhem 3. Sure, it might take him a little longer (if the player doesn't spam Tediore mirv homing reloads of the appropriate element), but at the end of the day both players' inventories are full of legendaries.

2. Walking down the street in Lectra yields legendaries (lots of them).

In sum,

3. Before long, everyone's inventory and bank is full of legendaries.

Maybe someone's gotta cheese Ball. I say, "that's okay, cheese it." Eventually, a strat, tactic or combo (or weapon) makes the boss directly doable.

Ultimately, when in doubt, spam Ted radiation mirv homing reloads (shoot once, reload; repeat). That's guaranteed to eliminate everything. Some bosses just flat go down. It locks them in a stun, keep rhythm, they're down in under a minute.

It's one of those games that one must limit oneself. There are a million ways to press the win button.

Well, true. I don't think any character is particularly troubled when specced and geared well. FL4K doesn't really need good gear, though. His +1 bullet on Crit skill and stacked crit chance essentially turns every fully auto sniper rifle into a super powered assault rifle. The only essential piece of gear he needs is a Class Mod with +3 to Leave No Trace skill which raises the chance of refunding on critical to 72%. If you are good at head tracking, or hit bosses in their weak spots, your auto sniper essentially gets an effective 300% bonus magazine size, and you have effectively 300% more sniper ammo before running dry AND an effective 300% more ammo gathered from dropped sniper ammo...

Essentially it becomes an assault rifle with a 400% damage buff and unlimited ammo and all you need is one purple class mod with the right skill roll... and you can grind that at the base vending machine.

Moze is also a super powerful class when you spec her skills the right way. For Moze you need the Rough Rider Shield, and spec to +1 grenade on grenade crit, health regen on grenade hit and the skill that allows grenades a bonus to crit. She is far better than FL4K at mob clearing since that build makes her essentially immortal, and gives her unlimited grenades. The more mobs the better with that build for her. It's less effective against bosses though as the limited crit chances mean she will run out of grenades eventually, and some bosses are near impossible to hit with grenades anyway. But there are some crazy powerful grenades possible in this game with the 4 potential mod slots. You get the right grenade on Moze and everything but the boss fights become comically easy (and fun!)

Snipe opportunities are rare. Enemies close range quickly and return fire effectively at any range. It's mostly mid to close range popping in and out of cover. Some shotguns have effective ranges that might as well be the end of the map; the need to go to sniper rifle occurs are ranges that almost never occur and might as well be dealt with via rocket launcher.

Unlike most games, this one allows the player to power over even bosses. There's no need and it's rarely appropriate to snipe. Into the fray, faith in the code, you'll win.

That is true. There are more sniping opportunities on Pandora maps than many other... at least that are useful. Some boss fights favor a good sniper, but there aren't any class skills that target a specific weapon class other than Moze's grenade skills. Skills in B3 are meant to mesh with weapon traits, rather than weapon types, like FL4K's bullet-on-crit skill heavily favoring high bullet damage, small average clip size weapons like snipers, revolvers and shotguns usually, while also favoring other weapon classes when they role high damage and low magazine size.

 

[ecofarm]

Well, true. I don't think any character is particularly troubled when specced and geared well. FL4K doesn't really need good gear, though. His +1 bullet on Crit skill and stacked crit chance essentially turns every fully auto sniper rifle into a super powered assault rifle. The only essential piece of gear he needs is a Class Mod with +3 to Leave No Trace skill which raises the chance of refunding on critical to 72%. If you are good at head tracking, or hit bosses in their weak spots, your auto sniper essentially gets an effective 300% bonus magazine size, and you have effectively 300% more sniper ammo before running dry AND an effective 300% more ammo gathered from dropped sniper ammo...

Essentially it becomes an assault rifle with a 400% damage buff and unlimited ammo and all you need is one purple class mod with the right skill roll... and you can grind that at the base vending machine.

Moze is also a super powerful class when you spec her skills the right way. For Moze you need the Rough Rider Shield, and spec to +1 grenade on grenade crit, health regen on grenade hit and the skill that allows grenades a bonus to crit. She is far better than FL4K at mob clearing since that build makes her essentially immortal, and gives her unlimited grenades. The more mobs the better with that build for her. It's less effective against bosses though as the limited crit chances mean she will run out of grenades eventually, and some bosses are near impossible to hit with grenades anyway. But there are some crazy powerful grenades possible in this game with the 4 potential mod slots. You get the right grenade on Moze and everything but the boss fights become comically easy (and fun!)




That is true. There are more sniping opportunities on Pandora maps than many other... at least that are useful. Some boss fights favor a good sniper, but there aren't any class skills that target a specific weapon class other than Moze's grenade skills. Skills in B3 are meant to mesh with weapon traits, rather than weapon types, like FL4K's bullet-on-crit skill heavily favoring high bullet damage, small average clip size weapons like snipers, revolvers and shotguns usually, while also favoring other weapon classes when they role high damage and low magazine size.

How about Amara's immunity to splash. That seems like it would be god mode. Might try that next.

 

[jmotivator]

How about Amara's immunity to splash. That seems like it would be god mode. Might try that next.

I haven't gotten around to learning Amara or Zane yet. I can see how immunity to splash would be amazing in a melee build since that is like 99% of the hits you take while running. She also, so I hear, makes great use of the various Artifacts that add massive elemental damage while sliding. I play with a mouse and keyboard, though, so I rarely use slide unless it is necessary to slide under an obstacle... and even then I need to double check my finger positioning on the keyboard before attempting it. :lol:

It's weird that the top two classes right now are FL4K and Moze and they are the two classes that make the least use of their class motif. the best FL4K players don't even bring a pet, and the best Moze build never uses her mech.

I really enjoyed playing the FL4K pet build for most of the storyline, but the effectiveness dropped off a lot. But still, while Moze is better at room clear, Fl4K's pet build clears rooms without you doing anything but engaging the action skill. You can just go make a sandwich with your extra time.

 

[ecofarm]

I haven't gotten around to learning Amara or Zane yet. I can see how immunity to splash would be amazing in a melee build since that is like 99% of the hits you take while running. She also, so I hear, makes great use of the various Artifacts that add massive elemental damage while sliding. I play with a mouse and keyboard, though, so I rarely use slide unless it is necessary to slide under an obstacle... and even then I need to double check my finger positioning on the keyboard before attempting it. :lol:

It's weird that the top two classes right now are FL4K and Moze and they are the two classes that make the least use of their class motif. the best FL4K players don't even bring a pet, and the best Moze build never uses her mech.

I really enjoyed playing the FL4K pet build for most of the storyline, but the effectiveness dropped off a lot. But still, while Moze is better at room clear, Fl4K's pet build clears rooms without you doing anything but engaging the action skill. You can just go make a sandwich with your extra time.

Fane's clone getting his weapon is nonsense. A monster rocket launcher smashes all. Or give him a "increases damage the longer you fire" incendiary and knock shields/armor off for him with appropriate pistol or smg. I want to try a freeze (drone) build but fear mayhem nerfing cryo and/or effect resistance means commitment to a second kit in inventory. And that kit needs to operate without a respec and a spec that doesn't make sense for any other strategy I've imagined. So, what does a freeze Fane do when mayhem reads "50% reduced damage from cryo and 70% resist effects"?

A Trev Shotgun in cryo and the clone freezes everything, so I take the main freeze buff (for one skill point) and let it do it. Just can't freeze anointed, or the gun would be total win button. Strange thing is he seems to freeze the enemy more often when I'm on radiation with the Shotgun (he defaults to cryo) while providing crossfire bonus.

Barrier contact (shock damage) also acts as crossfire, just gotta get the enemy stuck in it, so I can have triple cross solo.

 

[jmotivator]

Fane's clone getting his weapon is nonsense. A monster rocket launcher smashes all. Or give him a "increases damage the longer you fire" incendiary and knock shields/armor off for him with appropriate pistol or smg. I want to try a freeze (drone) build but fear mayhem nerfing cryo and/or effect resistance means commitment to a second kit in inventory. And that kit needs to operate without a respec and a spec that doesn't make sense for any other strategy I've imagined. So, what does a freeze Fane do when mayhem reads "50% reduced damage from cryo and 70% resist effects"?

A Trev Shotgun in cryo and the clone freezes everything, so I take the main freeze buff and let it do it. Just can't freeze anointed, or the gun would be total win button. Strange thing is he seems to freeze the enemy more often when I'm on radiation with the Shotgun (he defaults to cryo) while providing crossfire bonus.

Interesting. I have always been disappointed with the freeze effect, but I probably wasn't using it right.

I was watching someone play list night with a 2-Element SMG (?), but instead of switching back and forth with the Alternate Mode toggle, the weapon fired Electric bullets that ricocheted as fire bullets. My head swam with the possibilities.

 

[ecofarm]

Interesting. I have always been disappointed with the freeze effect, but I probably wasn't using it right.

I was watching someone play list night with a 2-Element SMG (?), but instead of switching back and forth with the Alternate Mode toggle, the weapon fired Electric bullets that ricocheted as fire bullets. My head swam with the possibilities.

There are some crazy weapons. The aforementioned Firestorm sniper rifle does decent damage and creates four homing incendiary mirvs every shot. No need to scope, just use it like a shotgun plus Tediore spam combo.

I prefer pistols and smgs for general purpose, but sometimes something broke OP is called for. The game doesn't really have any business stacking badass and anointed enemies lined up for Scourge rocket fire. With the clone and I firing contamination novas, I can't even see anything but damage numbers. Then a *ring ring* and it's time to move up and see what legendaries dropped.

 

[jmotivator]

There are some crazy weapons. The aforementioned Firestorm sniper rifle does decent damage and creates four homing incendiary mirvs every shot. No need to scope, just use it like a shotgun plus Tediore spam combo.

I prefer pistols and smgs for general purpose, but sometimes something broke OP is called for. The game doesn't really have any business stacking badass and anointed enemies lined up for Scourge rocket fire. With the clone and I firing contamination novas, I can't even see anything but damage numbers. Then a *ring ring* and it's time to move up and see what legendaries dropped.

Yeah, I think that is the beauty of Borelands games in general, at some point the end game morphs from a gear grind to a stress reliever.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah, I think that is the beauty of Borelands games in general, at some point the end game morphs from a gear grind to a stress reliever.

And it doesn't take long. One character with Mayhem 3 almost instantly moves the game from searching to picking. It fills four characters and bank quickly.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah, I think that is the beauty of Borelands games in general, at some point the end game morphs from a gear grind to a stress reliever.

Sometimes I go with the ol' Doom shotgun (Hellfire; double barreled, same shot pattern and reload and everything) and my clone and I just knock everything down. Maybe we wait for it all to get back up just to do it again.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah, I think that is the beauty of Borelands games in general, at some point the end game morphs from a gear grind to a stress reliever.

Proving Grounds (Fervor) in a team of four just yielded 6 legendaries (coop, so everyone got them). Didn't believe it until my loot saver coughed them up.

 

[jmotivator]

Proving Grounds (Fervor) in a team of four just yielded 6 legendaries (coop, so everyone got them). Didn't believe it until my loot saver coughed them up.

Crazy. Coop Cpt. Traunt is apparently good for legendaries as well. Easy kill and the treasure room apparently has a high rate of legendary drops. Also, there are two nice mini-bosses on the way to him that you probably already know about. The Tink boss always drops a Maliwan SMG of random elemental pairings.

Oh, also, October is the 10 year anniversary of Borderlands so apparently a lot of bosses have their drop rates significantly increased.

 

[ecofarm]

Crazy. Coop Cpt. Traunt is apparently good for legendaries as well. Easy kill and the treasure room apparently has a high rate of legendary drops. Also, there are two nice mini-bosses on the way to him that you probably already know about. The Tink boss always drops a Maliwan SMG of random elemental pairings.

Oh, also, October is the 10 year anniversary of Borderlands so apparently a lot of bosses have their drop rates significantly increased.

It pains that I'm gonna have to take leadership roles. I'm not a gamer. I play a game once in a while, over the years, with a buddy. Four uncoordinated players can result in wasted time by every measure. I've seen a handful of groups fail Fervor because everyone thinks they can ignore a BA Wardog and the thing starts pulling people with its frustrating barriered hit and run routine. Ignoring some enemies might result in a player being killed. For example, a trooper with its dual corrosion can take someone out in a couple seconds if unnoticed. So people key on those. But they're not a real danger. Who cares if someone's gotta run back to the fight from a few seconds away. That's not really risking catastrophe. But the wardog finally pisses someone off and away they go after it. Maybe a second player accompanies, or a second wardog does it. Now the group is in two. Then... everyone is running back to the battle and it's a fail.

Someone's gotta highlight targets for the group. I'm noob. Ps4 noob and game noob. I just read a lot. But I gotta be in charge. 90% of the time, no one is, and that's often a fail. Literally "mission failed"/"you suck". I didn't buy a game to be told I suck, so I gotta boss people? This ps4 is starting to seem like a deal with the devil.

 

[Redress]

It pains that I'm gonna have to take leadership roles. I'm not a gamer. I play a game once in a while, over the years, with a buddy. Four uncoordinated players can result in wasted time by every measure. I've seen a handful of groups fail Fervor because everyone thinks they can ignore a BA Wardog and the thing starts pulling people with its frustrating barriered hit and run routine. Ignoring some enemies might result in a player being killed. For example, a trooper with its dual corrosion can take someone out in a couple seconds if unnoticed. So people key on those. But they're not a real danger. Who cares if someone's gotta run back to the fight from a few seconds away. That's not really risking catastrophe. But the wardog finally pisses someone off and away they go after it. Maybe a second player accompanies, or a second wardog does it. Now the group is in two. Then... everyone is running back to the battle and it's a fail.

Someone's gotta highlight targets for the group. I'm noob. Ps4 noob and game noob. I just read a lot. But I gotta be in charge. 90% of the time, no one is, and that's often a fail. Literally "mission failed"/"you suck". I didn't buy a game to be told I suck, so I gotta boss people? This ps4 is starting to seem like a deal with the devil.

If you complain about wasted time while playing a game, you are doing it wrong, in more ways than one.

 

[ecofarm]

If you complain about wasted time while playing a game, you are doing it wrong, in more ways than one.

Agreed. Total chaos is not acceptable. That's it, I'm in charge.