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Are soldiers personally responsible for war? That was the message of Universal Soldier, a song written by Canadian singer-songwriter Buffy Sainte-Marie that became popular when covered by Donovan in 1965.
Lyrics include:
And he's fighting for democracy he's fighting for the reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide who's to live and who's to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall
But without him how would Hitler have condemned them at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body as the weapon of the war
And without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame
Do these lyrics make a valid point?
Soldiers are not responsible for war. Our elected leaders are. There is a reason we put the military under civilian control.
Soldiers are, however, responsible for their specific individual actions during war.
Even if it's just following an order?
Depends on the order. In the US military you are only obligated to follow lawful orders and could be criminally liable for following unlawful orders.
I'm sure that means something..... to the JAG corps anyway.
I keep thinking back to watching footage of the trial of Adolf Eichmann.... this man standing up there in the witness stand. If you didn't know who he was or his history.... he could have been a chartered accountant. Hell, he even looked like a neighbor of mine.
But his ultimate defense was "I was only following orders"... that's the standard defense of every war criminal in history. If history had taken a different course, it might have been General DeWitt saying those words.
When you get right down to it, isn't it a cop-out?
Are soldiers personally responsible for war? That was the message of Universal Soldier, a song written by Canadian singer-songwriter Buffy Sainte-Marie that became popular when covered by Donovan in 1965.
Lyrics include:
And he's fighting for democracy he's fighting for the reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide who's to live and who's to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall
But without him how would Hitler have condemned them at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body as the weapon of the war
And without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame
Do these lyrics make a valid point?
Yes, following an unlawful order and then claiming you are just following orders is a cop-out.
Of course it isnt always clearcut. The US military’s Uniform Code of Military Justice doesn’t grant protection to soldier’s following lawful orders. Meanwhile, under a regime like the Khmer Rouge if a soldier disobeyed ANY order they or their family could be killed.
“If I disobeyed they would kill my wife and child” gets more sympathy from me than “I was just following orders”.
But I can only speak with knowledge regarding the US military. I don’t remember ever receiving much training on the subject when I was enlisted. It wasn’t until I went to Warrant Officer Candidate school that I received formal training on the matter. I think enlisted personnel should get similar training to the officers on this matter.
Are soldiers personally responsible for war? That was the message of Universal Soldier, a song written by Canadian singer-songwriter Buffy Sainte-Marie that became popular when covered by Donovan in 1965.
Lyrics include:
And he's fighting for democracy he's fighting for the reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide who's to live and who's to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall
But without him how would Hitler have condemned them at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body as the weapon of the war
And without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame
Do these lyrics make a valid point?
Soldiers are not responsible for war. Our elected leaders are. There is a reason we put the military under civilian control.
Soldiers are, however, responsible for their specific individual actions during war.
I'm going to ask you a personal question, Bob... and as such, you obviously don't have to answer it.
What's the angriest you've ever seen someone get? Have you ever seen someone's veneer get pushed so far aside that you thought they'd kill someone? Or... I was going to say "better yet" here, but it's not - have you ever actually seen someone get so angry that they did kill someone?
But I can only speak with knowledge regarding the US military. I don’t remember ever receiving much training on the subject when I was enlisted. It wasn’t until I went to Warrant Officer Candidate school that I received formal training on the matter. I think enlisted personnel should get similar training to the officers on this matter.
I've been military pretty much all my life. I never once started a war.
I think that would largely depend on what your duties were.
As an Infantryman in the 1980's, we were drilled quite extensively on the Laws of Land Warfare. In fact, as we sat upon the runway in 1987 preparing to go to Haiti, we were given a 1 hour class on that by the Battalion S-2 and S-3. We were specifically told what the mission would be, and all aspects of escalation of force, and rules of engagement.
And today, it is even more in-depth. Such things are gone over time and time again, because they do not want anybody trying to claim "I was doing what I was told" if they had violated such rules.
And part of these classes are not just the UCMJ, but the Geneva Convention, Hague Protocols, and all other aspects of the Laws of Land Warfare. That way nobody can say they did not know better. If any "order" was given that violated any of those other agreements, we should recognize that they are unlawful and therefore not to be followed.
But you got paid by those who start war.
But you got paid by those who start war.
Soldiers sign up. Of course they are responsible.
They are responsible for carrying out the lawful orders given.
They are not responsible for the war itself.
So you don't have a point.
Got it.
To make a long story short...yes, I have.
Good points. Also, it is possible I DID learn that stuff during Basic training when I attended in the 90s when I enlisted and just don’t remember. I was not a combat MOS.
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