Black Lives Matter is Out of Proportion with Reality (1 Viewer)

[kamikaze483]

On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.

 

[Quazimodo]

On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.

It's starting to look like more and more blacks are nothing more than welfare dependent whiners and dumb and blind followers of some Invented Satan.

 

[Celebrity]

Black people aren't an endangered species. If anything, we should decrease the shootings of unarmed civilians both male, and female. The message of BLM is that we should stop police from attacking black people due to racial stigmas.

In order to understand how to break the cycle it's important to look at the data, like the data you provided. I've heard that black on black crime is higher than any other crime by race. I assume that the goal of BLM is not to adhere to a set of criminal principles, but to lead by example.

As Marilyn Manson once wrote, "The cops and queers make good looking models."

 

[americanwoman]

It's starting to look like more and more blacks are nothing more than welfare dependent whiners and dumb and blind followers of some Invented Satan.

As opposed to white peope who never go on welfare and don't blindly and dumbly follow anyone or anything?

 

[MaggieD]

On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.

It is extremely unfortunate that BLM isn't adopt BLMT, Black Lives Matter Too. Also that their mission statement is not focused on and anchored in reality. They should be hammering away at review boards, timely investigations, complete transparency and accountability across the board.

Every.Police.Shooting.

 

[Quazimodo]

As opposed to white peope who never go on welfare and don't blindly and dumbly follow anyone or anything?

Perhaps you could start a thread about white welfare recipients who were gunned down by the police.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

It's starting to look like more and more blacks are nothing more than welfare dependent whiners and dumb and blind followers of some Invented Satan.

Subtle. :lol:

 

[TheGoverness]

It is extremely unfortunate that BLM isn't adopt BLMT, Black Lives Matter Too. Also that their mission statement is not focused on and anchored in reality. They should be hammering away at review boards, timely investigations, complete transparency and accountability across the board.

Every.Police.Shooting.

Adding that 3 letter word at the end of their movement's name would do them a whole lot of good.

And I agree that they should be more focused on police accountability and transparency.

 

[kamikaze483]

The message of BLM is that we should stop police from attacking black people due to racial stigmas.

Yet, if statistically there is not reason to believe that this is occurring other than in isolated instances, then their claim that the problem is "systemic and intentional" is not valid.

I assume that the goal of BLM is not to adhere to a set of criminal principles, but to lead by example.

Leading by example... in the terms that one person throws a brick through a window in Ferguson and everyone else joins in. That's the only leading by example I have seen from this group.

I believe that this type of organization is destructive to constructive dialogue. When a co-founder of an organization takes the inclusive statement that "All Lives Matter," and declares that such a statement is racist (#AllLivesMatter hashtag is racist, critics say), then the organization is pushing a separatist agenda which is at odds with the alleged goal of healing racial divide. IMHO.

 

[MaggieD]

Adding that 3 letter word at the end of their movement's name would do them a whole lot of good.

And I agree that they should be more focused on police accountability and transparency.

I first read that from one of our posters. If I remembered which poster, I would gladly give him/her credit.

 

[americanwoman]

Perhaps you could start a thread about white welfare recipients who were gunned down by the police.

Your post did not address black victims of police brutality either so maybe you can start a thread about welfafe statistics by race and your theory black people are blind and dumb followers of some invented Satan.

 

[TheGoverness]

I first read that from one of our posters. If I remembered which poster, I would gladly give him/her credit.

I heard that from a podcast about a year ago. A member of the BLM movement was talking about how BLM means Black Lives Matter too, and one of the people on the podcast said: "then why not just add that word in there?"

 

[Quazimodo]

Your post did not address black victims of police brutality either so maybe you can start a thread about welfafe statistics by race and your theory black people are blind and dumb followers of some invented Satan.

Please allow me to refer you to the opening post. Please read the last 2 or 3 senrences. I gave an answer to the opening post. If you don't like my answers, don't read my posts.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.

Black Lives Matter is propaganda by the very extreme left. SO of course propaganda is out of touch with reality.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I heard that from a podcast about a year ago. A member of the BLM movement was talking about how BLM means Black Lives Matter too, and one of the people on the podcast said: "then why not just add that word in there?"

They didnt add the word too since it wouldnt be provocative and wouldnt gain the attention that their extreme leftist movement seeks.

 

[joG]

On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.

Of course it is all puffed up out of proportion. It is the same thing with many of the liberal issues that are heated up with often false and always overstated and emotional populism. That is the way to attract interest, it would appear. It does a lot of damage though.

 

[kamikaze483]

Of course it is all puffed up out of proportion. It is the same thing with many of the liberal issues that are heated up with often false and always overstated and emotional populism. That is the way to attract interest, it would appear. It does a lot of damage though.

I believe the same thing, but in order to combat that facts are needed. Unfortunately a large portion of public sentiment regarding certain issues is just that- sentiment. And it means that falsehoods are being propagated and fed to less informed people, who tend to eat them up.

 

[Celebrity]

I heard that from a podcast about a year ago. A member of the BLM movement was talking about how BLM means Black Lives Matter too, and one of the people on the podcast said: "then why not just add that word in there?"

The L in LGBT matters too, but you won't hear me advocating for removing it from that acronym. Not being a woman, I can still respect straight people, but it also doesn't mean I don't keep LGBT in mind. That's why not. Black Lives Matter is about making it personal for black people. I'm not surprised that there are people on both sides overreacting.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

One could read this and agree if your only considering shootings as the mark of racism. But when arguing against systematic racism, unfortunately there are other factors you have to consider. Ones that skew your numbers in a slightly different light. The fact that so few Black People are shot, despite being targeted a great deal more by LEO, means they know they will get shot if they resist. Where as White People don't consider it possible til the cop shoots them.

And those crime numbers are not really representative, as they report on arrests and convictions in a system that arrests and convicts Black People more for mostly non violent drug offenses. When the White Population has the same drug use rates. Your saying there is no systematic racism because the cops don't kill as many white people, and then backing it up with numbers produced by the system in question. I didn't punch that man, I'm left handed and only my right knuckles are bleeding. Is basically your argument.

Read this: Fourteen Examples of Racism in Criminal Justice System

Its well worded and thought out by a Law Professor at Loyola University.

 

[ocean515]

One could read this and agree if your only considering shootings as the mark of racism. But when arguing against systematic racism, unfortunately there are other factors you have to consider. Ones that skew your numbers in a slightly different light. The fact that so few Black People are shot, despite being targeted a great deal more by LEO, means they know they will get shot if they resist. Where as White People don't consider it possible til the cop shoots them.

And those crime numbers are not really representative, as they report on arrests and convictions in a system that arrests and convicts Black People more for mostly non violent drug offenses. When the White Population has the same drug use rates. Your saying there is no systematic racism because the cops don't kill as many white people, and then backing it up with numbers produced by the system in question. I didn't punch that man, I'm left handed and only my right knuckles are bleeding. Is basically your argument.

Read this: Fourteen Examples of Racism in Criminal Justice System

Its well worded and thought out by a Law Professor at Loyola University.

There are some rather eyebrow raising assumptions in your post. Your explanation of how numbers can get skewed appears to be more conjecture than fact.

The fact is, the cycle of poverty Blacks have been subjected to is the greatest contributor to numbers seen in the data. In general, Blacks unfortuantly find themselves living in poverty at a much higher percentage than whites.

Poverty breads crime, so LEO's are much more likely to be found in force in crime riddled neighborhoods, than they would in in neighborhoods where crime is not a prevalent.

This all plays into the data, and must be accounted for, unlike what was presented in the piece from HuffPo.

Blacks have been victims, but not so much by police brutality, but by the political/activist forces who have been manipulating and bleeding them for votes for generations. That reality should be the focus for action, not this fabricated manipulation about cops being pushed to distract from the real issues.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

There are some rather eyebrow raising assumptions in your post. Your explanation of how numbers can get skewed appears to be more conjecture than fact.

The fact is, the cycle of poverty Blacks have been subjected to is the greatest contributor to numbers seen in the data. In general, Blacks unfortuantly find themselves living in poverty at a much higher percentage than whites.

Poverty breads crime, so LEO's are much more likely to be found in force in crime riddled neighborhoods, than they would in in neighborhoods where crime is not a prevalent.

This all plays into the data, and must be accounted for, unlike what was presented in the piece from HuffPo.

Blacks have been victims, but not so much by police brutality, but by the political/activist forces who have been manipulating and bleeding them for votes for generations. That reality should be the focus for action, not this fabricated manipulation about cops being pushed to distract from the real issues.

Have you always lived in Southern California? There is the face of things then there is the reality. I am a born and raised Southerner, an Appalachian American if you will. And I have seen a black family run out of town by the county Sheriff. I remember how the upstanding citizens of today used to talk back in high school. The people using the hoses on Civil Rights Protesters in those old photos, where you think they are today? My grandmother is on the wrong side in one of those photos. I have been approached three times in my life to join the KKK, and I have known plenty of black kids go to jail for something I have been let off with a warning.

Once, I was on a bus in Texas with my at the time Illegal Immigrant wife. I had drugs on me, and Border Patrol had their dogs out. Because my wife was a white immigrant and I was a white citizen, I got a warning. They let me keep the drugs. They did arrest three brown people though. But hey I am glad to hear California's progressed so far you don't see those type of things. In the mean time, I think I won't dismiss these people's legitimate complaints.

 

[ocean515]

Have you always lived in Southern California? There is the face of things then there is the reality. I am a born and raised Southerner, an Appalachian American if you will. And I have seen a black family run out of town by the county Sheriff. I remember how the upstanding citizens of today used to talk back in high school. The people using the hoses on Civil Rights Protesters in those old photos, where you think they are today? My grandmother is on the wrong side in one of those photos. I have been approached three times in my life to join the KKK, and I have known plenty of black kids go to jail for something I have been let off with a warning.

Once, I was on a bus in Texas with my at the time Illegal Immigrant wife. I had drugs on me, and Border Patrol had their dogs out. Because my wife was a white immigrant and I was a white citizen, I got a warning. They let me keep the drugs. They did arrest three brown people though. But hey I am glad to hear California's progressed so far you don't see those type of things. In the mean time, I think I won't dismiss these people's legitimate complaints.

Yes, I have lived in Southern California my whole life. I do not discount the racism and attitudes that have existed in some parts of the country.

I am referring to today. Right now. In cities like Los Angeles and surrounding cities, in the Chicago area, in Oakland and surrounding areas, etc..

The cycle of poverty is heart breaking. What a Black kids supposed to do when economic opportunity has been stripped from them? When crime brings a constant flow of Police vehicles to their neighborhoods?

Politicians and activists want to focus on Police issues, while running from the elephant in the living room. People in Black Communities are being played by the very people who claim to be their Champions. How many more decades of broken promises, platitudes, and insulting attitudes of the elites should they tolerate?

Is there any wonder blacks struggle with crime when jobs are scarce, and the few that exist are taken by illegal aliens who are flowing in at the invitation of the same government officials who promised to help them. Where is their American Dream?

 

[kamikaze483]

But when arguing against systematic racism, unfortunately there are other factors you have to consider....The fact that so few Black People are shot, despite being targeted a great deal more by LEO

I agree that there are other factors that have to be considered and I did narrow the post only to police shootings. (I did this because by defining the problem this way highlights that the media outrage over black people being shot by police and that these isolated instances are presented as a sweeping, national crisis is not supported by the facts. I'd be interested to know if you agree or disagree with that).

I would argue against your statement in bold because I don't think facts back that up.

There is certainly another entire aspect of this discussion related to police treatment of blacks in incidents that don't involve a shooting.

And those crime numbers are not really representative, as they report on arrests and convictions in a system that arrests and convicts Black People more for mostly non violent drug offenses....I didn't punch that man, I'm left handed and only my right knuckles are bleeding. Is basically your argument.

I have read the article from Loyola, and another from a black professor at Harvard that argues similarly. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0).

Your assertion that the FBI's numbers are skewed as a result of the fact that blacks are arrested and charged more often than whites for drug crimes and other lower level offenses may be true, however consider the following:

1. Maybe it's true that blacks DO actually commit crimes more often than blacks? Would it be racist to consider that maybe this is true?
2. Maybe it is socioeconomic factors (such as being out in high crime areas- such as inner cities- late at night) that results in a higher number of blacks being arrested for low level crimes.
3. Maybe it's important to consider the fact that ALL of the highest crime areas in the country are predominantly black communities.
4. If crimes are occurring at a higher rate in primarily black areas, is it unreasonable to assume that black people would be arrested more often in those areas than white people?

Secondly, since you separated out the low level drug offenses, lets look at violent crimes from the FBI report. The data shows that for violent crime across the US:

59% is committed by 63% of the population (Whites, -4% differential)
38% of violent crimes are committed by 17% of the population (Blacks, +21% differential)

The picture of violent crime shows an even larger problem than the statistics as a whole which include the lower level crimes.

I agree that there are other factors that must be considered, but I argue that one of those factors is the FACT that black people tend to commit more crimes per capita than white people.

Rather than acknowledging this within BLM type organizations, they want to ignore that fact and instead place all of the blame on "systemic and intentional" prejudice.

Certainly there is some prejudice in the justice system. Just as certainly, it is not fair to suggest that the only reason that blacks are arrested and convicted at a higher rate than black is because the system is prejudiced. The fact that black people commit more crimes per capita has to be acknowledged.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

I agree that there are other factors that have to be considered and I did narrow the post only to police shootings. (I did this because by defining the problem this way highlights that the media outrage over black people being shot by police and that these isolated instances are presented as a sweeping, national crisis is not supported by the facts. I'd be interested to know if you agree or disagree with that).

I would argue against your statement in bold because I don't think facts back that up.

There is certainly another entire aspect of this discussion related to police treatment of blacks in incidents that don't involve a shooting.



I have read the article from Loyola, and another from a black professor at Harvard that argues similarly. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0).

Your assertion that the FBI's numbers are skewed as a result of the fact that blacks are arrested and charged more often than whites for drug crimes and other lower level offenses may be true, however consider the following:

1. Maybe it's true that blacks DO actually commit crimes more often than blacks? Would it be racist to consider that maybe this is true?
2. Maybe it is socioeconomic factors (such as being out in high crime areas- such as inner cities- late at night) that results in a higher number of blacks being arrested for low level crimes.
3. Maybe it's important to consider the fact that ALL of the highest crime areas in the country are predominantly black communities.
4. If crimes are occurring at a higher rate in primarily black areas, is it unreasonable to assume that black people would be arrested more often in those areas than white people?

Secondly, since you separated out the low level drug offenses, lets look at violent crimes from the FBI report. The data shows that for violent crime across the US:

59% is committed by 63% of the population (Whites, -4% differential)
38% of violent crimes are committed by 17% of the population (Blacks, +21% differential)

The picture of violent crime shows an even larger problem than the statistics as a whole which include the lower level crimes.

I agree that there are other factors that must be considered, but I argue that one of those factors is the FACT that black people tend to commit more crimes per capita than white people.

Rather than acknowledging this within BLM type organizations, they want to ignore that fact and instead place all of the blame on "systemic and intentional" prejudice.

Certainly there is some prejudice in the justice system. Just as certainly, it is not fair to suggest that the only reason that blacks are arrested and convicted at a higher rate than black is because the system is prejudiced. The fact that black people commit more crimes per capita has to be acknowledged.

I acknowledge that Black people are convicted of more crimes per capita, but commits more crime. Hardee Har. You do realize that the police have a horrible record as far as catching criminals right? I think they have a 5 percent solve rate. And movements like BLM aren't talking about the FBI or DEA for that matter. They are talking about regular old patrol cops, detectives, and gang task forces. The thing is most Americans are guilty of some crime or another, and any scrutiny would reveal it. Black People are no different.

Most Criminals get away, that skews those numbers. Basin your argument on the numbers of the system in question is showing a bias. Plain and Simple. And the reason Black Communities are targeted by police is this insane drug war, over a plant. It's a gateway excuse for LE to take liberties and claim a neighborhood is crime ridden.

Unless your arguing that Black People are just inherently more violent than white people? Is that what you're saying?

 

[ThoughtEx.]

To what extent do police prevent crime?


Something I stumbled on and tucked away, this Tim Fry poses a strong argument. The gist being, Police don't really prevent crime.

So arguing that Patrol Cops are a necessity in these "High Crime" neighborhoods can be counter-argued to be ineffective no matter how brutal there methods. So why send them into danger at all?