Bishop Spong and the Modernization of Christianity

[zyzygy]

Is that why you cited a conservapedia link?

And he missed the fact that this is the belief and skepticism forum.

 

[it's just me]

Is that why you cited a conservapedia link?

At least the Conservapedia link was accurate, which is more than we can say for your posts.

 

[it's just me]

A New Atheist talking about "intellectual challenge" is like a fish out of water opening and closing its mouth.

Yeah, it's like me saying the Ironman Triathlon is no challenge. I've never done it, but it would be no challenge.

 

[OlNate]

Getting a theological degree would not be a huge intellectual challenge.

I think you would be surprised. I mean, learning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic alone is a challenge in itself.

 

[zyzygy]

I think you would be surprised. I mean, learning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic alone is a challenge in itself.

Are you saying that Logicman speaks those languages?

 

[zyzygy]

I think you would be surprised. I mean, learning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic alone is a challenge in itself.

I stand corrected.


A theology degree may cover a variety of different religions, or may specifically look at just one or two, depending on the course requirements and the module choices of the student. Any theology degree is likely to include modules on the history of one or more religions. Instruction on a religious text, such as the Bible, Torah or Quran, and how to interpret it, is a major part of most theology degrees. Students will discuss the significance of these religious texts, answering questions such as: to what extent are they open to interpretation? Are they the word of God?

In order to better get to grips with the texts, some universities offer students the chance to learn their original language, such as Arabic, Hebrew or ancient Greek. While some courses will accept students working with translations of the texts, for others it is a requirement of the course to learn a Biblical language. Theology degrees cover some of the most challenging philosophical and ethical discussions of all time, delving into the minds of the great theological thinkers of the past. Depending on the course, students may also study the relationships between the church and different social groups, such as women or indigenous people.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/subjects/what-can-you-do-theology-degree#survey-answer

 

[OlNate]

I stand corrected.


A theology degree may cover a variety of different religions, or may specifically look at just one or two, depending on the course requirements and the module choices of the student. Any theology degree is likely to include modules on the history of one or more religions. Instruction on a religious text, such as the Bible, Torah or Quran, and how to interpret it, is a major part of most theology degrees. Students will discuss the significance of these religious texts, answering questions such as: to what extent are they open to interpretation? Are they the word of God?

In order to better get to grips with the texts, some universities offer students the chance to learn their original language, such as Arabic, Hebrew or ancient Greek. While some courses will accept students working with translations of the texts, for others it is a requirement of the course to learn a Biblical language. Theology degrees cover some of the most challenging philosophical and ethical discussions of all time, delving into the minds of the great theological thinkers of the past. Depending on the course, students may also study the relationships between the church and different social groups, such as women or indigenous people.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/subjects/what-can-you-do-theology-degree#survey-answer

Yup...

Here's the syllabus archive from the Lutheran seminary here in Ontario.

https://students.wlu.ca/programs/luther/news/2017/fall/seminary-course-syllabus-archive.html

I think you'd be surprised at what you find. For example, under the course title "The Theory of Change", we find:

This course surveys the various theories of psychotherapy and explores psychotherapy
change processes. In terms of systems of psychotherapy, this course will address
psychoanalytic (contemporary psychoanalysis and psychodynamic), person–centered
(humanistic), experiential, cognitive, behavioral, mindfulness, systems-based,
integrative, and constructivist theories.

It's a little more than just sitting around singing "Jesus loves me", and learning how to pass a collection plate...hehe A Masters or a Doctorate of Divinity is as much work as anything else.

 

[Daisy]

Ahem:



Saying non-believers are going to hell is pretty much like placing a gun to their heads. That's forcing people to worship him right then and there, something Bishop Spong disagrees with, and he's right.

But there is another misconception...hell cannot be the lake of fire because hell is thrown into the lake of fire along with the grave...meaning hell will be destroyed, along with death...

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14

 

[Daisy]

A formal education in theology is pointless, its like having a bachelor's degree in comic book trivia.

Exactly...especially when they teach false doctrines...the apostles were not educated men by any standards of the world back then, yet they knew the truth better and respected God's Word more than anyone else at that time...

"Now when they saw the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were astonished. And they began to realize that they had been with Jesus." Acts 4:13

They felt the same way about Jesus...

"And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?" John 7:14

Paul explained it in this way...

“For you behold his calling of you, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame.”​—1 Corinthians 1:26, 27

Secular historians...educated men...noted the same points. ..

“Celsus, the first writer against Christianity, makes it a matter of mockery, that labourers, shoemakers, farmers, the most uninformed and clownish of men, should be zealous preachers of the Gospel.”--The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, by Augustus Neander; translated from the German by Henry John Rose, 1848, p. 41

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Why would a 'God' need worshiping anyway? Sounds more like what a narcissistic control freak human needs.

One of many paradoxes inherent in the typical concept of God.

 

[Quaestio]

Yup...

Here's the syllabus archive from the Lutheran seminary here in Ontario.

https://students.wlu.ca/programs/luther/news/2017/fall/seminary-course-syllabus-archive.html

I think you'd be surprised at what you find. For example, under the course title "The Theory of Change", we find:



It's a little more than just sitting around singing "Jesus loves me", and learning how to pass a collection plate...hehe A Masters or a Doctorate of Divinity is as much work as anything else.

Sounds pretty 'liberal' . That subject also sounds like it's part of the syllabus for a degree in Counselling, not Theology.

I also think calling the Wilfrid Laurier University a "Lutheran seminary" is a bit of stretch. Maybe it started that way 100 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Laurier_University

 

[Tanngrisnir]

You only think it's odd because you do not have a formal education in theology and you have nothing of substance to ever add to a conversation. You're just a hack badgering people.

Lulz. And yet I know more about the bible and its teaching that you ever will. Clearly that's a fact that eats at you day in, and day out.

And that's nice.

 

[zyzygy]

Lulz. And yet I know more about the bible and its teaching that you ever will. Clearly that's a fact that eats at you day in, and day out.

And that's nice.

I would beat him hands down in a bible quiz.

 

[OlNate]

Sounds pretty 'liberal' . That subject also sounds like it's part of the syllabus for a degree in Counselling, not Theology.

I also think calling the Wilfrid Laurier University a "Lutheran seminary" is a bit of stretch. Maybe it started that way 100 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Laurier_University

Hoo boy. Lemme help you out here. For credibility's sake (as much credibility as anyone can have while making claims in an anonymous debate forum, anyway), my mother went into the seminary when I was in my early 20's - just shy of 20 years ago. So I'm a little familiar with the topic.

A) Liberal: Yes. The idea that all denominations are alt-right mouth pieces just isn't the case.

B) Counselling is a big part of ministry, and one of the things that critics of the church either like to skip over, or condemn as "indoctrination". But many parishioners turn to their pastors for counselling through some of life's more difficult times - especially dealing with death. Therefore they spend a lot of time on it in seminary.

C) Here are the seminaries of the ELCIC - the Lutheran church in Canada:

Seminaries

Hope that clears everything up.

 

[Quaestio]

Hoo boy. Lemme help you out here. For credibility's sake (as much credibility as anyone can have while making claims in an anonymous debate forum, anyway), my mother went into the seminary when I was in my early 20's - just shy of 20 years ago. So I'm a little familiar with the topic.

A) Liberal: Yes. The idea that all denominations are alt-right mouth pieces just isn't the case.

B) Counselling is a big part of ministry, and one of the things that critics of the church either like to skip over, or condemn as "indoctrination". But many parishioners turn to their pastors for counselling through some of life's more difficult times - especially dealing with death. Therefore they spend a lot of time on it in seminary.

C) Here are the seminaries of the ELCIC - the Lutheran church in Canada:

Seminaries

Hope that clears everything up.

You gave a link to the Wilfrid Laurier University did you not?

This is a wiki page about that University- which started it's life as a Lutheran seminary about 100 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Laurier_University

So are you saying that there is still a seminary as part of the Public University? Currently? Fine. But it's clearly not just a 'seminary'.

Yes sure, counselling is usually part of the syllabus of degree in Pastoral Counselling/Ministry these days. But the question was a about a degree in Theology.

 

[PoS]

At least the Conservapedia link was accurate, which is more than we can say for your posts.

LOL if it was accurate then why did you apologize for it? Perhaps you need to retake your theology degree again. :lamo

 

[nota bene]

LOL if it was accurate then why did you apologize for it? Perhaps you need to retake your theology degree again. :lamo

Do you actually want to discuss Spong? I'm pretty tired of the continual taunting of another DP member here.

 

[it's just me]

Do you actually want to discuss Spong? I'm pretty tired of the continual taunting of another DP member here.

First I want to find out where he got the claim that Christianity is dying, since it was his opening shot, then we can talk about Spong.

 

[OlNate]

You gave a link to the Wilfrid Laurier University did you not?

This is a wiki page about that University- which started it's life as a Lutheran seminary about 100 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Laurier_University

So are you saying that there is still a seminary as part of the Public University? Currently? Fine. But it's clearly not just a 'seminary'.

Yes sure, counselling is usually part of the syllabus of degree in Pastoral Counselling/Ministry these days. But the question was a about a degree in Theology.

lol...I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I never said Wilfred Laurier was only a seminary. I was sharing the syllabus from the Lutheran Seminary, which is "a federated college of Wilfrid Laurier University, who grants the seminary degrees". However you need to frame that, it's the syllabus that's important, not the school address.

Anyway, this debate is starting to feel like whiskey dick sex - seemed like a good idea at the beginning, I was really enthusiastic about it and all, but it doesn't appear to be going anywhere, so I'm off to bed. lolz

 

[OlNate]

Do you actually want to discuss Spong? I'm pretty tired of the continual taunting of another DP member here.

He's an atheist attempting to bully to a Christian, so it's ok.

 

[Daisy]

For taunting to work, it takes 2...

Don't respond to haters' taunts - even politely. Ignore them. If nobody takes their bait, most will grow bored and move on. Andrew Shaffer

https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/taunt

 

[PoS]

Do you actually want to discuss Spong? I'm pretty tired of the continual taunting of another DP member here.

Of course I do, but I as responding to his offtopic posts, so perhaps you ought to have a talk with him first.

 

[Logicman]

A formal education in theology is pointless, its like having a bachelor's degree in comic book trivia.

And you're an expert on this, having none of the theological education to know better.

You and Elvira have been reading too many Mad Magazines.

 

[Logicman]

Ahem:



Saying non-believers are going to hell is pretty much like placing a gun to their heads. That's forcing people to worship him right then and there, something Bishop Spong disagrees with, and he's right.

There's no forcing the heathens. Are you feeling forced? Then get a better argument.

 

[it's just me]

Of course I do, but I as responding to his offtopic posts, so perhaps you ought to have a talk with him first.

I have asked you twice where you got the idea that Christianity is dying, which is one of the claims you are making.