Biological sex is determined by....

[maquiscat]

So may times in the debates people are putting forth what they claim is what determines what a male or female is, per the factors above. There really is no agreement here, despite claims to the contrary. I want to find out what the actual spread is.

Please keep in mind, that this is not a poll on the gender vs sex issue. There is not a question, for this thread and poll, as to what is gender or how that is determined, or is the right label/word symbol being used. This is concentrating solely on the physical biological body.

Note that this poll is not assigning any particular sex either. Whether one's sex is intersex male or intersex female or that the intersex condition is a third label altogether, that is irrelevant to what one will claim is the determining factor. The question before you is what is the determining factor, not what are the resultant sexes.

 

[ProgressPlease]

Thank you for this thread.

The sex of an individual human refers to one of two—and only two—functional roles that an individual may play in sexual reproduction. Males are defined as the sex that produces small, motile gametes (sperm), and females produce large, sessile gametes (ova). There is no third gamete between sperm and ova, and therefore there is no third biological sex apart from male and female. Yes, there is a small portion of the population born with intersex conditions—whereby they exhibit external sex ambiguity, or a mismatch between internal sexual anatomy and external phenotype—but they do not produce unique forms of gametes, or have primary sex organs that would normally produce them, and so they do not constitute a third sex, even if, in some extremely rare cases, they can’t be definitively classified as male or female.

 

[tacomancer]

Biological sex appears to be like graphics in a video game. From far away, you have something clear cut, but if you walk up and look at the details closely, you might see weird pixels, texture mismatches, etc. The more details you examine, the less cut and dry it is.

 

[AGENT J]

So may times in the debates people are putting forth what they claim is what determines what a male or female is, per the factors above. There really is no agreement here, despite claims to the contrary. I want to find out what the actual spread is.

Please keep in mind, that this is not a poll on the gender vs sex issue. There is not a question, for this thread and poll, as to what is gender or how that is determined, or is the right label/word symbol being used. This is concentrating solely on the physical biological body.

Note that this poll is not assigning any particular sex either. Whether one's sex is intersex male or intersex female or that the intersex condition is a third label altogether, that is irrelevant to what one will claim is the determining factor. The question before you is what is the determining factor, not what are the resultant sexes.

Its a combination of all three and other but you only allowed one choice so i went with all 3.

The more we learn the more its a little fuzzy. A little, not a lot.
In general, the first three are the story and its on a biological level but there are exceptions to the rule


For others who would like to learn and read

“I’m XY and I Know It”: Sex Determination Systems 101 - Science in the News

Sexual identity has been in the news often lately, and unsurprisingly so: the past few years have yielded sweeping reforms in civil rights, spurring new conflicts surrounding everything from age-old battles in gender equality to legislation enforcing anti-transgender bathrooms. It’s a...

sitn.hms.harvard.edu

Sex Determination: Why So Many Ways of Doing It?

Sexual reproduction is an ancient feature of life on earth, and the familiar X and Y chromosomes in humans and other model species have led to the impression that sex determination mechanisms are old and conserved. In fact, males and females are determined ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

APA Dictionary of Psychology

A trusted reference in the field of psychology, offering more than 25,000 clear and authoritative entries.

dictionary.apa.org

 

[maquiscat]

Thank you for this thread.

The sex of an individual human refers to one of two—and only two—functional roles that an individual may play in sexual reproduction. Males are defined as the sex that produces small, motile gametes (sperm), and females produce large, sessile gametes (ova). There is no third gamete between sperm and ova, and therefore there is no third biological sex apart from male and female. Yes, there is a small portion of the population born with intersex conditions—whereby they exhibit external sex ambiguity, or a mismatch between internal sexual anatomy and external phenotype—but they do not produce unique forms of gametes, or have primary sex organs that would normally produce them, and so they do not constitute a third sex, even if, in some extremely rare cases, they can’t be definitively classified as male or female.

So the determining factor is what gamete a person produces? Regardless of what their chromosomes are or what organs, internal or external they have or, in some cases, don't have?

 

[Aristaeus]

Other. It is determined by the gonads and the gametes that those gonads are designed to produce. Of course, this is also linked to xx and xy chrmosomes in 99% of cases.

 

[Aristaeus]

So the determining factor is what gamete a person produces? Regardless of what their chromosomes are or what organs, internal or external they have or, in some cases, don't have?

Well the gamete is determined by the primary sexual reproduction organ. Testes can't produce eggs and ovaries can't produce sperm.

 

[Aristaeus]

Also, just a quick comment on intersex, or DSDs as they are correctly referred to: having a DSD (being intersex) does not mean you are neither male or female, or that you are both, except in perhaps very rare circumstances of hermaphroditism.

Many DSDs are only linked to one particular sex. Klinfelter syndrome, for example, is a condition that affect only males. It doesn't make them a bit female or somewhere in the middle. They are wholly male.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

does not mean you are neither male or female, or that you are both, except in perhaps very rare circumstances of hermaphroditism.

So it does not mean that except when it does mean that?

 

[Aristaeus]

So it does not mean that except when it does mean that?

It does not mean that except in rare cases.

 

[rahl]

Biology clearly shows that there are 2 and only 2 sexes in the Human race, controlled entirely by the chromosomes of the individual. Anything outside of this (intersex) are genetic aberrations.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Biology clearly shows that there are 2 and only 2 sexes in the Human race, controlled entirely by the chromosomes of the individual. Anything outside of this (intersex) are genetic aberrations.

That's like writing off the existence of female ants as genetic aberrations because 99.99% of ants are male. If our theory of gravity worked normally 99.99% of the time but we found one tiny 0.01% space where gravity was inverted we would need a new theory of gravity. Sex is pretty clearly bimodal. That is the medical understanding of sex.

 

[rahl]

That's like writing off the existence of female ants as genetic aberrations because 99.99% of ants are male.

no, it's nothing like that.

If our theory of gravity worked normally 99.99% of the time but we found one tiny 0.01% space where gravity was inverted we would need a new theory of gravity. Sex is pretty clearly bimodal. That is the medical understanding of sex.

Sex is binary in the human species. Male, female, or genetic aberrations (mistakes)

 

[Nomad4Ever]

no, it's nothing like that.

Isn't it? You are saying they are aberrations just because they are genetically rare. Intersex people are MUCH more common in humans than female ants are in ants.

If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018% (Source)

Ok, so 0.018% of humans are not classifiable as male or female. Let's see how many ants are female;

Sugar ants are social insects and live only in colonies. A colony has a sugar ant queen, reproductive male ants, and non-reproductive workers. They find food and bring it to the queen. One sugar ant colony has up to 350 thousand individuals, among which there are 100-200 adult females except for the sugar ant queen. (Source)

Using the high estimate of 200 we get....

0.00057% of ants in the colony are female.

Sex is binary in the human species. Male, female, or genetic aberrations (mistakes)

All genetics is a mistake. Literally all of evolution is a history of genetic mistakes. Intersex people are rare but exist, and that's why scientists and medical professionals understand sex is a bimodal distribution.

 

[VanceMack]

The same thing as gender. Genetics.

What is NOT determined by is how somebody FEELS.

 

[rahl]

Isn't it? You are saying they are aberrations just because they are genetically rare. Intersex people are MUCH more common in humans than female ants are in ants.

Right. As I pointed out, it's nothing like that at all.

Ok, so 0.018% of humans are not classifiable as male or female. Let's see how many ants are female;

irrelevant and off topic

All genetics is a mistake. Literally all of evolution is a history of genetic mistakes. Intersex people are rare but exist, and that's why scientists and medical professionals understand sex is a bimodal distribution.

scientists, specifically biologists, know that sex is binary.

 

[maquiscat]

Other. It is determined by the gonads and the gametes that those gonads are designed to produce. Of course, this is also linked to xx and xy chrmosomes in 99% of cases.

Well the gamete is determined by the primary sexual reproduction organ. Testes can't produce eggs and ovaries can't produce sperm.

So in the cases where the gonads do not develop one way or the other and thus do not produce gametes (yes, yes, I know. Rare occurrence.) How is determination then made?

 

[maquiscat]

Also, just a quick comment on intersex, or DSDs as they are correctly referred to: having a DSD (being intersex) does not mean you are neither male or female, or that you are both, except in perhaps very rare circumstances of hermaphroditism.

Many DSDs are only linked to one particular sex. Klinfelter syndrome, for example, is a condition that affect only males. It doesn't make them a bit female or somewhere in the middle. They are wholly male.

But if the gamete and gamete producing organs are the determining factor and they do not develop in a person with Klinefelter, then how is the person determined to be male?

 

[Phys251]

no, it's nothing like that.

Sex is binary in the human species. Male, female, or genetic aberrations (mistakes)

Your gender-binary dogma doesn't answer the question.

 

[maquiscat]

Biology clearly shows that there are 2 and only 2 sexes in the Human race, controlled entirely by the chromosomes of the individual. Anything outside of this (intersex) are genetic aberrations.

But what determines when there is a genetic aberration? Or do you tell that person they are neither male nor female?

 

[Phys251]

So may times in the debates people are putting forth what they claim is what determines what a male or female is, per the factors above. There really is no agreement here, despite claims to the contrary. I want to find out what the actual spread is.

Please keep in mind, that this is not a poll on the gender vs sex issue. There is not a question, for this thread and poll, as to what is gender or how that is determined, or is the right label/word symbol being used. This is concentrating solely on the physical biological body.

Note that this poll is not assigning any particular sex either. Whether one's sex is intersex male or intersex female or that the intersex condition is a third label altogether, that is irrelevant to what one will claim is the determining factor. The question before you is what is the determining factor, not what are the resultant sexes.

Gonads, hormones, chromosomes, SRY gene... just to name a few.

Intersexuality, contrary to what the gender-binary dogmatists say, is real.

 

[maquiscat]

That's like writing off the existence of female ants as genetic aberrations because 99.99% of ants are male. If our theory of gravity worked normally 99.99% of the time but we found one tiny 0.01% space where gravity was inverted we would need a new theory of gravity. Sex is pretty clearly bimodal. That is the medical understanding of sex.

Actually that would be writing off males. The vast majority of ants and bees are female.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Who the **** cares. It's determined by the person. Only simpletons get fixed up on definition, life is not black and white and things can't easily be summed up by definitions. Even definitions are different depending on the source and subject to change

 

[rahl]

Your gender-binary dogma doesn't answer the question.

That's because I didn't say gender binary. I clearly said, and you directly quoted me saying, that sex is binary.

 

[Phys251]

That's because I didn't say gender binary. I clearly said, and you directly quoted me saying, that sex is binary.

That's part of your gender binary dogma.